CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
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Pascal Vincent: Stay or Go?
- Thread starter CBJWerenski8
- Start date
I voted yes, assuming a new GM wants to bring in "his guy". That being said, I think Vincent is generally trending in the right direction. The collapses weren't as big of an issue towards the end of the year, and the other issue is giving ice time to younger guys. With another year of development, hopefully they force the issue next year. The issue of Boone's line getting 22+ minutes a game will probably continue, though.
Results wise, if the collapses weren't as abundant as they were, we could've had a pretty different looking record. If there has been enough learning tactics-wise to mitigate even half of those collapses next year, I would consider that pretty good progress, if he does end up staying. If those collapses were fewer, the record could have been more around 35 wins. For a first year coach with a pretty young roster that had zero time to prepare for the season as HC, that wouldn't have been bad at all.
But while I think he's trending in the right direction, I still would prefer a new voice brought in, and hopefully one with enough staying power to be here for 3-4 years minimum. If Vincent is kept, please, for the love of god, at least get new assistant coaches. McCarthy specifically has worn out his welcome with me.
Results wise, if the collapses weren't as abundant as they were, we could've had a pretty different looking record. If there has been enough learning tactics-wise to mitigate even half of those collapses next year, I would consider that pretty good progress, if he does end up staying. If those collapses were fewer, the record could have been more around 35 wins. For a first year coach with a pretty young roster that had zero time to prepare for the season as HC, that wouldn't have been bad at all.
But while I think he's trending in the right direction, I still would prefer a new voice brought in, and hopefully one with enough staying power to be here for 3-4 years minimum. If Vincent is kept, please, for the love of god, at least get new assistant coaches. McCarthy specifically has worn out his welcome with me.
MissADD
Registered User
Do I think he should be fired? Probably. He did get handed a bad situation, but I think some of the decisions he made were very questionable.
Do I think he will get fired? No. I wouldn't be shocked if he was, but you need a GM 1st and the timing of that hire is key. If a GM is hired in the next month, I could see Vincent being fired because the new GM has time to do the due diligence needed in finding a coach.
Do I think he will get fired? No. I wouldn't be shocked if he was, but you need a GM 1st and the timing of that hire is key. If a GM is hired in the next month, I could see Vincent being fired because the new GM has time to do the due diligence needed in finding a coach.
Long Live Lyle
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CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
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Cowumbus
Registered User
Ice9
Registered User
"They have to deal with it" is not a ringing endorsement.
New GM should have hours of interviewing players ahead.
New GM should have hours of interviewing players ahead.
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
- 42,356
- 24,276
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
- 42,356
- 24,276
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
- 42,356
- 24,276
Pascal needs another season. he took our shit team and made us competitive first half of the season most of our loses were 1 goal games or blown 3rd period leads. he did all this with a poor PP and without our stars ( laine, boone, fantilli, KJ ) . give him a full offseason. he can lead this team in the right direction.
If they replaced Vincent with Berube or maybe Evason, I wouldn't complain.
But I reallized the other day that most of my complaints about Vincent were similar to what I said (and many of us said) about Torts. Not trusting young players was the consistent theme. Page after page of HF comments were about Torts not trusting young players. Remember "Free Bjorkstrand!"? Well that and the PP sucks.
If you look at the structure the team plays with it's night and day compared to last year. I appreciate that part of what Vincent has done.
But I reallized the other day that most of my complaints about Vincent were similar to what I said (and many of us said) about Torts. Not trusting young players was the consistent theme. Page after page of HF comments were about Torts not trusting young players. Remember "Free Bjorkstrand!"? Well that and the PP sucks.
If you look at the structure the team plays with it's night and day compared to last year. I appreciate that part of what Vincent has done.
KJ Dangler
Registered User
How many coaches are they paying ? Larsen ended this year .. Can’t imagine they paid Babcock much , and that’s not on the books ..
As far as Vincent , I want to like the guy .. his misuse of Boone Jenner should get him canned on the spot . His line juggles are brutal… His assistant coaches are brutal , and this isn’t his fault .
As of now , there are some damn good veteran coaches available .. Does Sullivan also become available ?
I hate Pascals useage of young players . When you start looking at injuries .. barely playing your 3rd and 4th line no doubt leads to more wear and tear over a long season
In a way comparing him to Larsen, he's the opposite in both good and bad. Larsen's team never had any structure, but their first season they got by with skill and heart and 3rd period comebacks. His second season there was nothing he could do with that roster, but OTOH he also seemed to fall flat on his face in trying to implement any structure. In my mind his new "defensive scheme" has become a legend and a myth, much talked about but never seen
But Larsen's tenure is tough to judge because of off ice factors, hard to say how much of it was on him, both in the good and the bad. Vincent to me seems a fundamentally more solid coach but I think he has plenty of room to grow in the other things that go into being a head coach. That is also a bit tough (read impossible) to judge from the outside, but my impression is he doesn't have the right balance yet. I'm not even sure what exactly I mean by balance, just comes off to me like he's a bit rigid in his ways and not always good at getting the best out of the players. But it could also be that will change once he's happy about the fundamentals and comes to trust the players more, or just grows with the job.
I guess that to me is the question in retaining him. I think both the team and the coach need to grow to become succesful, is he a coach that can happen with? Can't say I have the answer.
KJ Dangler
Registered User
Fred Glover
Chief of Sinners
Part of me cynically says of course he would want to be here seeing as he makes over a million a year, not to mention that there are only 31 other jobs like it
OldGoaltender
Registered User
I really really really wanted Roy last year. Vincent seemed like a what now after Babs, so I say let the new GM bring in whoever he wants.
Roy was my guy too. They almost hired Vincent in the first place so I don't think there was much of a what now after Babs.
Changing coach every year is what dysfunctional teams do, and from what I've seen, it rarely seems to fix anything. Let's not turn into Sabres. A new gm can do a lot to fix some of the roster management issues (Jiricek thing).
Let's not forget that Vincent literally had DAYS to prepare himself and the team in the way he wanted to. I think he deserves at least another shot to implement the system and style that he wants with a full off-season to gameplan and prepare.In a way comparing him to Larsen, he's the opposite in both good and bad. Larsen's team never had any structure, but their first season they got by with skill and heart and 3rd period comebacks. His second season there was nothing he could do with that roster, but OTOH he also seemed to fall flat on his face in trying to implement any structure. In my mind his new "defensive scheme" has become a legend and a myth, much talked about but never seen
Vincent to me seems a fundamentally more solid coach but I think he has plenty of room to grow in the other things that go into being a head coach. That is also a bit tough (read impossible) to judge from the outside, but my impression is he doesn't have the right balance yet. I'm not even sure what exactly I mean by balance, just comes off to me like he's a bit rigid in his ways and not always good at getting the best out of the players. But it could also be that will change once he's happy about the fundamentals and comes to trust the players more, or just grows with the job.
I guess that to me is the question in retaining him. I think both the team and the coach need to grow to become succesful, is he a coach that can happen with? Can't say I have the answer.
But similar to Jarmo, I think if we're still in the lottery conversation (bottom 5-10) come the TDL, he'll be gone by the end of the season.
there's a strong argument that pascal vincent is an exception to the "we need continuity" argument given that he wasn't actually the guy who they wanted to hire and was simply thrust into the role out of necessity.
if they'd had this kind of season under like, gerard gallant or peter laviolette, i'd agree. but i don't the jackets (or any other org) has ever truly viewed pascal as NHL head coaching material.
remember, he interviewed for the HC job after torts left, didn't get it, and took the assistant gig here. then he interviewed for HC jobs after larsen's first year, didn't get any of those, and came back.
then he interviewed for the CBJ HC job again, didn't get it, interviewed some more for other openings, didn't get those, then came back for an assistant job, then got elevated out of necessity.
They spent a lot of time speaking well of Vincent on both occasions. It seemed like he was a strong consideration for them, more so than the other candidates, some of whom had head coaching experience.
Head coaching continuity is overrated. First year head coaches have been leading many deep playoff runs recently.
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