Proposal: P.K Subban??

[Jmo89]

I wouldn't mind Subban on the cheap, but his role would be clear that he's a #6-7 dman.

If Toronto moves out both Holl and Sandin, preferably they get someone a bit more solid for the bottom pair and then have Subban as the #7, but I doubt they have the cap for that.

I think he's probably better than Holl though.

 

[Buds17]

We're in agreement on the quantity but not the quality

Subban >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holl

Leafs started the playoffs for the first 2 games with Holl in the pressbox as a healthy scratch (and should have left him there).

Remember this ?

View attachment 569872

** Norris Trophy winner P.K. Subban **​

Now remember this ?

View attachment 569873
** Justin Holl delayed penalty on this pick play in game #7 **

Nothing wrong with preferring Subban over Holl. The issue here is still in potentially having seven defenceman for six spots and another transaction possibly being required in addition to the ones replacing Holl with Subban.

 

[al secord]

I was a no at the first question mark

 

[keonsbitterness]

We're in agreement on the quantity but not the quality

Subban >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holl

Leafs started the playoffs for the first 2 games with Holl in the pressbox as a healthy scratch (and should have left him there).

Remember this ?

View attachment 569872

** Norris Trophy winner P.K. Subban **​

Now remember this ?

View attachment 569873
** Justin Holl delayed penalty on this pick play in game #7 **

What I've gleaned from your posts is that Subban winning the Norris in 2013 is a selling point while Giordano winning the Norris in 2019 means nothing.

 

[Mess]

Nothing wrong with preferring Subban over Holl. The issue here is still in potentially having seven defenceman for six spots and another transaction possibly being required in addition to the ones replacing Holl with Subban.

Most teams particularly for road trips need a spare forward and dman spare carrying 13th forwards and 7th dman.

This is a fully healthy roster at present and we have seen Muzzin miss significant time in a season so you need a Sandin to fill in.

The reason to remove Holl for Subban is all about the cap space needed to make that swap.. Leafs don't have the luxuary of keeping both on the roster anyways, so its an either or proposition.

 

[Blaylock38]

For the record, to keep flexibility maximal, I'd also consider trading Kerfoot, Holl and Sandin and signing a guy like Paul Stasny to a 1 year deal to play 3C... Do something like...

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Robertson-Tavares-Nylander
Jarnkrok-Stasny-Engvall
Aube-Kubel-Kampf-Anderson
Gaudette

Rielly-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Muzzin-Subban

You would have money to add at the deadline id you needed to upgrade Robertson at 2LW and you'd have assets to acquire someone using what you get back for Kerfoot, Sandin and Holl.

Stasny can low key still play. He put up 21 goals and 45 points, in 71 games last year. He was pacing for about 50 points. Ideal 3C on a bargain contract, IMO.

Paul Statsny would be excellent as 3rd line C, faceoff skills, can pass and still has a scoring touch and can play wing. Absolutely!!! move out Holl and Kerfoot if possible, sign him to a 2 year deal.

 

[Mess]

What I've gleaned from your posts is that Subban winning the Norris in 2013 is a selling point while Giordano winning the Norris in 2019 means nothing.

Subban is 33 years old and Giodano is 39 and the oldest active skater in the NHL now that 38 year old Duncan Keith just retired before hitting age 39. That makes 6 years a huge difference in hockey players career and longevity once they're in their 30's.

You don't see a lot of 39 and 40 year old Dman in the NHL, as its a young man's game and it doesn't matter how many James Norris or other trophies happen in their past, father time has arrived.

Besides Subban at age 33 (May 13, 1989) is Jake Muzzin's (Feb. 21, 1989) age and he still have 2 years at $5.625 mil, which doesn't seem to bother the Leafs, so how can P.K. be too old and washed up comparatively speaking?.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Subban is 33 years old and Giodano is 39 and the oldest active skater in the NHL now that 38 year old Duncan Keith just retired before hitting age 39. That makes 6 years a huge difference in hockey players career and longevity once their in their 30's.

You don't see a lot of 39 and 40 year old Dman in the NHL, as its a yound mans game and it doesn't matter how many James Norris or other trophies happen in their past, father time has arrived.

Besides Subban at age 33 (May 13, 1989) is Jake Muzzin's (Feb. 21, 1989) age and he still have 2 years at $5.625 mil, which doesn't seem to bother the Leafs, so how can P.K. be too old and washed up comparatively speaking?.

I'm comparing Subban and Giordano. The better player right now based on recent history is Giordano.

Not like either would/will be a long-term Leaf, so the father time argument is redundant.

 

[notbias]

We're in agreement on the quantity but not the quality

Subban >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holl

Leafs started the playoffs for the first 2 games with Holl in the pressbox as a healthy scratch (and should have left him there).

Remember this ?

View attachment 569872

** Norris Trophy winner P.K. Subban **​

Now remember this ?

View attachment 569873
** Justin Holl delayed penalty on this pick play in game #7 **

Player evaluation is sooooooooo off.

 

[kb]

Player evaluation is sooooooooo off.

It's based solely on age. And nothing about on ice performance.

I've seen PK do much worse on a regular basis than the Holl thing...

 

[ULF_55]

 

[IrishInOntario]

Paul Statsny would be excellent as 3rd line C, faceoff skills, can pass and still has a scoring touch and can play wing. Absolutely!!! move out Holl and Kerfoot if possible, sign him to a 2 year deal.

I love Stasny! He's still going strong. Not a 2C anymore, but he's an ideal 3C, that can play up in the lineup for a while if a Matthews / Tavares were go get hurt. You could probably get him for 2 years, at about $2.5m at this point.

 

[Stephen]

He would have to make Jason Spezza money. Does he still have a point shot?

 

[Fogelhund]

We're in agreement on the quantity but not the quality

Subban >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Holl

Peak Subban was far better than peak/current Holl.

Current Subban is NOT better than current Holl.

There is a reason he's still available at this point. He'd be an ok guy as a 6/7 guy, on a cheap contract, and nothing more. He did play some time on the NJD PP last year, 0:35 per game, and put up exactly ZERO points on their PP. In fact, NJD were scored on more often, than they scored when he was on the ice for the PP. His mobility and his physicality have taken a hit over the years.

Subban is an option, because it saves you some (but not a lot) of cap room.

 

[OVO16]

Don't mind him but I wonder if signing Jordie Benn eliminates that possibility.

 

[Fogelhund]

Don't mind him but I wonder if signing Jordie Benn eliminates that possibility.

I don't think it eliminates the possibility, particularly if we trade Holl... it just eliminates the need. They aren't overly different players at this point in time. Benn is probably actually more physical now.

Don't get me wrong, Subban below $1 mil is a pretty good hometown story, and would be some good marketing.. it's just he isn't near what he once was.

 

[Sypher04]

For the record, to keep flexibility maximal, I'd also consider trading Kerfoot, Holl and Sandin and signing a guy like Paul Stasny to a 1 year deal to play 3C... Do something like...

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Robertson-Tavares-Nylander
Jarnkrok-Stasny-Engvall
Aube-Kubel-Kampf-Anderson
Gaudette

Rielly-Brodie
Giordano-Liljegren
Muzzin-Subban

You would have money to add at the deadline id you needed to upgrade Robertson at 2LW and you'd have assets to acquire someone using what you get back for Kerfoot, Sandin and Holl.

Stasny can low key still play. He put up 21 goals and 45 points, in 71 games last year. He was pacing for about 50 points. Ideal 3C on a bargain contract, IMO.

Would this be cap compliant?

 

[Fogelhund]

He would have to make Jason Spezza money. Does he still have a point shot?

No points on the PP last year.

Would this be cap compliant?

Depends on the Statsny contract, but it should work... $5.5 mil going out in Holl/Kerfoot... Subban $1 mil, $4.5 or less on Statsny.. I mean, he was on a $3.75 contract last year... So he should be $3 mil or so this time.

 

[Mess]

I'm comparing Subban and Giordano. The better player right now based on recent history is Giordano.

Not like either would/will be a long-term Leaf, so the father time argument is redundant.

I'm suggesting replacing Justin Holl RHD @$2 mil AAV with P.K. Subban RHD a former Norris winner for similar cap to emphasize the quality difference between Holl and Subban as a team upgrade.

Your comparison is irrelevant to the on going discussion of improving the Leafs roster by adding P.K. Subban as Gio wasn't even in the equation, until you brought him up.

You seem to have lost the thread of this thread in your excitement to point out Gio was also a former Norris winner.

 

[Fogelhund]

I'm suggesting replacing Justin Holl RHD @$2 mil AAV with P.K. Subban RHD a former Norris winner for similar cap

Your comparison is irrelvant to the on going discussion of improving the Leafs roster by adding P.K. Subban as Gio wasn't even in the equation, until you brought him up.

You seem to have lost the thread of this thread in your excitement to point out Gio was also a former Norris winner.

Adding Subban does NOT improve the roster. He's not what he once was. It just opens up a little cap space.

 

[justashadowof]

Not a fan. He's too wild and erratic. Want us to focus on smart and structured hockey moving forward. Last thing we need in the playoffs is PK Subban spontaneously and recklessly trying to do it all himself to become a Toronto legend.

This said what I wanted to post. To those bringing up the Holl dumb pick penalty, I guarantee that Subban would do twice as many of these trying-to-do-too-much type of mistakes that are back breakers in the playoffs.

 

[arso40]

Peak Subban was far better than peak/current Holl.

Current Subban is NOT better than current Holl.

There is a reason he's still available at this point. He'd be an ok guy as a 6/7 guy, on a cheap contract, and nothing more. He did play some time on the NJD PP last year, 0:35 per game, and put up exactly ZERO points on their PP. In fact, NJD were scored on more often, than they scored when he was on the ice for the PP. His mobility and his physicality have taken a hit over the years.

Subban is an option, because it saves you some (but not a lot) of cap room.

I don’t believe subban is not better than holl at all actually he’s more of what we need strong point shot physical shit disturbing rhd as opposed to a floating rhd who thinks he has offensive skills and gets caught in the ozone a lot I much rather have pk at a million more then a holl tbh

 

[DopeyFish]

i want subban for the sole purpose of showing marner/matthews/nylander some real style in their clothing choices

 

[as Pure as Evil]

if you can get him on the 950 k or less hometown discount or hell even if he just wants to come here to restart his career after a down couple. after the radiant acknowledgement of our sports science dept from the tidbit gaudette said. was a major factor. basically something along the lines of the best place to get your career back on track or something along those lines

 

[Cournoyer12]

I loved PK as Hab, did wonderful things for the Montreal community. Was very disappointed when he was traded even though we got Weber. Seems now that his back is pretty well shot now, but he still possess that Howitzer! Belongs on a Canadian team! Always enjoyed his post game celebrations with Pricer after a win. I really think that took some of the joy out of Carey Prices game when he left!