P.K. Subban

[crystal ball]

I've been hoping for the last few months that P.K. would find his consistency and play the kind of self-contained, smart yet explosive hockey we know he can. Instead, it seems to be getting harder for him, with some bad blown coverage and reduced ice time as a result of it. Instead of analyzing what's wrong with him, I'd like to talk about what it will take to get him back to himself. Does he need to play his way out of it with big minutes? Does he need a new D coach? A shrink?

What do you guys think?

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[Lafleurs Guy]

I've been hoping for the last few months that P.K. would find his consistency and play the kind of self-contained, smart yet explosive hockey we know he can. Instead, it seems to be getting harder for him, with some bad blown coverage and reduced ice time as a result of it. Instead of analyzing what's wrong with him, I'd like to talk about what it will take to get him back to himself. Does he need to play his way out of it with big minutes? Does he need a new D coach? A shrink?

What do you guys think?

Stop playing him with sub-NHL defensemen and get him a new coach. He'll improve infinitely.

 

[Habsawce]

He's back with Gorges now and will be getting normal ice time against top level opposition. This will bring back what he's been lacking, confidence. Also, the playoffs are around the corner and nothing brings the best out of PK like the prime time of the playoffs.

 

[Lebowski]

Subban has never been good at playing a "self-contained" type of game. That's how Therrien tried to change him, and ever since then he's played on his heels and multiplied brain farts after brain farts.

You want Subban to be the dominant force he can be? Let him loose, and don't staple him to the bench for the occasional mistakes that are bound to happen when playing a high risk game.

He's at his best when he plays with confidence and swagger, both offensively and defensively. Don't try to change the guy into something he isn't. He won the Norris playing his game for crying out loud, let him do his thing. Simple as that.

A classic example of a player being over-coached. You can bring small adjustments to his game, but don't try to completely overhaul him only so that you can establish your dominance as "the coach". That's partly what cost Therrien his job in the past, and likely what's going to cost his job in the future.

 

[Blind Gardien]

#FreeSubban. Let him do what he wants, his way, 27 minutes a night. Full green light to do any tricks he wants with the puck, anytime. Full green light to bum-check attackers as they enter the zone. Not a full 2 minutes on the PP. Top rotation PK duty. Matchup against the other team's best line every night. Never bench him no matter how many mistakes he makes in the process of re-transitioning to this level of utilization and unconditional support. After 20 games (maybe less) you will have the top-5 Norris candidate Subban back. Pay him his money for 8 years and stitch the "A" on his jersey next season. Market the crap out of him. Sit back and rake in the money.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Subban has never been good at playing a "self-contained" type of game. That's how Therrien tried to change him, and ever since then he's played on his heels and multiplied brain farts after brain farts.

You want Subban to be the dominant force he can be? Let him loose, and don't staple him to the bench for the occasional mistakes that are bound to happen when playing a high risk game.

He's at his best when he plays with confidence and swagger, both offensively and defensively. Don't try to change the guy into something he isn't. He won the Norris playing his game for crying out loud, let him do his thing. Simple as that.

This is so evident for the both of us, yet so many on this board actually think MT knows what is best for Subban...

If everytime I made a mistake in my life, I got treated the way MT treats Subban, I would probably stop trying...

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Stop playing him with sub-NHL defensemen and get him a new coach. He'll improve infinitely.

With Gorges coming back, the first issue is solved. The second issue might have to wait a few years as Friedman believes MB wants to give MT an extension .

@OP, Subban just needs to play his way out of his. He's over thinking right now and doesn't seem to have his confidence. Benching him for every mistake won't help him regain that confidence. Just let him play 25 minutes a couple of games and he'll find his form.

 

[JuicyHam]

#FreeSubban. Let him do what he wants, his way, 27 minutes a night. Full green light to do any tricks he wants with the puck, anytime. Full green light to bum-check attackers as they enter the zone. Not a full 2 minutes on the PP. Top rotation PK duty. Matchup against the other team's best line every night. Never bench him no matter how many mistakes he makes in the process of re-transitioning to this level of utilization and unconditional support. After 20 games (maybe less) you will have the top-5 Norris candidate Subban back. Pay him his money for 8 years and stitch the "A" on his jersey next season. Market the crap out of him. Sit back and rake in the money.

Yep.

 

[Andy]

Subban has never been good at playing a "self-contained" type of game. That's how Therrien tried to change him, and ever since then he's played on his heels and multiplied brain farts after brain farts.

You want Subban to be the dominant force he can be? Let him loose, and don't staple him to the bench for the occasional mistakes that are bound to happen when playing a high risk game.

He's at his best when he plays with confidence and swagger, both offensively and defensively. Don't try to change the guy into something he isn't. He won the Norris playing his game for crying out loud, let him do his thing. Simple as that.

Came to post this.

The Habs are trying to mold Subban into a player he is not. There is no passion left in Subban's game and it's hurting him. He looks flat out there, his agitating game has even dwindled. He looks tentative and robotic, two characteristics that are the opposite of what Subban as a player is.

The team needs to let Subban play with passion and intensity...I'll never forget the Crosby matchups of 09-10 and the one earlier this season. That's how Subban needs to play. This positional, passive and safe Subban is harmful to himself and the team.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

#FreeSubban. Let him do what he wants, his way, 27 minutes a night. Full green light to do any tricks he wants with the puck, anytime. Full green light to bum-check attackers as they enter the zone. Not a full 2 minutes on the PP. Top rotation PK duty. Matchup against the other team's best line every night. Never bench him no matter how many mistakes he makes in the process of re-transitioning to this level of utilization and unconditional support. After 20 games (maybe less) you will have the top-5 Norris candidate Subban back. Pay him his money for 8 years and stitch the "A" on his jersey next season. Market the crap out of him. Sit back and rake in the money.

This.

 

[lou4gehrig]

Overly annoying, picky fans or poor coach. Prolly a little of both.

 

[Monctonscout]

#FreeSubban. Let him do what he wants, his way, 27 minutes a night. Full green light to do any tricks he wants with the puck, anytime. Full green light to bum-check attackers as they enter the zone. Not a full 2 minutes on the PP. Top rotation PK duty. Matchup against the other team's best line every night. Never bench him no matter how many mistakes he makes in the process of re-transitioning to this level of utilization and unconditional support. After 20 games (maybe less) you will have the top-5 Norris candidate Subban back. Pay him his money for 8 years and stitch the "A" on his jersey next season. Market the crap out of him. Sit back and rake in the money.

That's all fine and dandy unless you want the Habs to win a cup.

Playing a freelance game was fun in the 70's and maybe 80's but as the Capitals and Ovechkin have shown, even with superstar players if you don't play a responsible 200 foot game you have no chance to win.

That doesn't mean Subban has to play like a robot, but he needs to value game situations and who he is playing against when taking certain risk. For the most part he does a good job of balancing this.

I think what hurt him a lot this season was the Olympics, he was playing well before that, then went over, had all the travel, time change etc of other players, but he mostly sat and came back and his timing has not been right since. At least guys like Markov and Emelin played while in Sochi and didn't lose their timing.

 

[Lebowski]

That's all fine and dandy unless you want the Habs to win a cup.

Playing a freelance game was fun in the 70's and maybe 80's but as the Capitals and Ovechkin have shown, even with superstar players if you don't play a responsible 200 foot game you have no chance to win.

That doesn't mean Subban has to play like a robot, but he needs to value game situations and who he is playing against when taking certain risk. For the most part he does a good job of balancing this.

I think what hurt him a lot this season was the Olympics, he was playing well before that, then went over, had all the travel, time change etc of other players, but he mostly sat and came back and his timing has not been right since. At least guys like Markov and Emelin played while in Sochi and didn't lose their timing.

Subban playing a "freelance" game is nothing like Ovechkin, though. He proved to be a better two-way defensemen when given more freedom as he's much less prone to boneheaded play.

Ovechkin's freelance game can be resumed by laziness and cherry-picking, two things that really can't be associated with Subban.

Therrien is playing his cards wrong in Subban's case, and the team record won't change my mind.

 

[Blind Gardien]

That's all fine and dandy unless you want the Habs to win a cup.

Playing a freelance game was fun in the 70's and maybe 80's but as the Capitals and Ovechkin have shown, even with superstar players if you don't play a responsible 200 foot game you have no chance to win.

That doesn't mean Subban has to play like a robot, but he needs to value game situations and who he is playing against when taking certain risk. For the most part he does a good job of balancing this.

But the thing is, when you give Subban those freedoms (and those responsibilities too - as mentioned, the increased QO and PK icetime) you also get him doing a better job of evaluating everything, game situations, risk, etc. We've already seen it to such a clear extent in the past that I can never understand why some few fans (and one coach) can't seem to grasp this. When you subscribe to #FreeSubban, you get the best of all worlds in his game.

 

[optimus2861]

That's all fine and dandy unless you want the Habs to win a cup.

Balderdash. A player like Subban is the rare kind of player who can control a game when he is on the ice and make other teams react to him. If you try to bottle him up, you lose that, and we've seen the results.

Playing a freelance game was fun in the 70's and maybe 80's but as the Capitals and Ovechkin have shown, even with superstar players if you don't play a responsible 200 foot game you have no chance to win.

The Capitals did have a Cup window open during 2009-2011. What happened then was just an unfortunate run of playoff luck, really: losing a game 7 to Pittsburgh in 09 (*), getting stoned by Halak in 10 (especially in game 6), and undone largely by their own goaltending in 11 (though their play was declining as well).

The Capitals as they are currently constructed and coached are a bad hockey team and their window has closed. It has much less to do with Ovechkin's inattentive backchecking then the popular narrative (and their in-over-his-head coach) would like you to believe.

(*) - don't forget, there were 5 1-goal games in that series and the Penguins won 2 of the 3 overtime contests. It was only game 7 that was a bust. If the Caps had got a bounce, it could well have been them hoisting the Cup that year.

 

[Shaby23]

I think this year only, Subban went from "wow he's playing like a Norris winner" to "what is going on with Subban?" 5times already.

The real problem is the coaching staffs. I'll always remember like 3years ago MT on the L'Antichambre saying he'd know how to handle PK and he'd be his "special project". MT just doesn't know what the **** to do with him. I'm sure MB told him to calm down earlier this season when he was on blaming PK every time after a game.

 

[FisherKing]

#FreeSubban. Let him do what he wants, his way, 27 minutes a night. Full green light to do any tricks he wants with the puck, anytime. Full green light to bum-check attackers as they enter the zone. Not a full 2 minutes on the PP. Top rotation PK duty. Matchup against the other team's best line every night. Never bench him no matter how many mistakes he makes in the process of re-transitioning to this level of utilization and unconditional support. After 20 games (maybe less) you will have the top-5 Norris candidate Subban back. Pay him his money for 8 years and stitch the "A" on his jersey next season. Market the crap out of him. Sit back and rake in the money.

Really like your posts on this subject BG. Saves me a world of typing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think this year only, Subban went from "wow he's playing like a Norris winner" to "what is going on with Subban?" 5times already.

The real problem is the coaching staffs. I'll always remember like 3years ago MT on the L'Antichambre saying he'd know how to handle PK and he'd be his "special project". MT just doesn't know what the **** to do with him. I'm sure MB told him to calm down earlier this season when he was on blaming PK every time after a game.

Tremblay used to say the same thing about Roy when he was a broadcaster. We all know how that one turned out.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

MB and MT have handled him terribly IMO. It will continue too since it looks like Therrien's here for a nother 2 years minimum. Subban will get traded. Guaranteed.

 

[Monctonscout]

Subban playing a "freelance" game is nothing like Ovechkin, though. He proved to be a better two-way defensemen when given more freedom as he's much less prone to boneheaded play.

Ovechkin's freelance game can be resumed by laziness and cherry-picking, two things that really can't be associated with Subban.

Therrien is playing his cards wrong in Subban's case, and the team record won't change my mind.

Maybe Karlsson is a better comparable, but you don't win anything with a defenseman playing an ad lib game.

Therrien has never prevented Subban from being creative and handling the puck. He had by far his best year last season. People use their personal agendas to blame Therrien when Subban has an off night or a rough patch, yet he was a Norris last year with him under the bench.

 

[crystal ball]

Subban has never been good at playing a "self-contained" type of game. That's how Therrien tried to change him, and ever since then he's played on his heels and multiplied brain farts after brain farts.

You want Subban to be the dominant force he can be? Let him loose, and don't staple him to the bench for the occasional mistakes that are bound to happen when playing a high risk game.

I hear what you're saying, but what I meant by "self-contained" wasn't that Subban played a stifled game at all. I meant more that he had a recognition of his own ability and how to best use it. When he's playing within his skill set, he's confident in taking the chances he does, and, in the last couple of years has been really improving in his decision making on the ice. The player we're seeing now isn't making those good choices, and he's playing another game, not the game his natural skills lend themselves to.

I agree, there's definitely an argument for letting him play his way out of whatever miasma he's dealing with right now. It's hard to imagine P.K.Subban having confidence problems, but it seems Therrien might have finally succeeded in quashing the joyful exuberance that makes Subban the kind of player who can win a Norris. Instead of holding Subban up as an example, he seems to be hoping Subban will play more like the run-of-the-mill guys who just aren't as good.

 

[Lebowski]

Maybe Karlsson is a better comparable, but you don't win anything with a defenseman playing an ad lib game.

Therrien has never prevented Subban from being creative and handling the puck. He had by far his best year last season. People use their personal agendas to blame Therrien when Subban has an off night or a rough patch, yet he was a Norris last year with him under the bench.

Again, you're mixing up two entirely different things. Subban doesn't play the same type of game as Karlsson, even when given the freedom to go all-out offense if he wants to. He's a two-way force that hits like truck when given the chance, not a - dare I say - 4th forward always joining the rush like Karlsson does.

Therrien has never prevented Subban from being creative? Are you blind? Calling him out multiple times in the medias, benching him, sheltering him, taking him off the PK despite proving he was close to our best player in those situations in the past, not using him to protect the lead late game when he's by far our best puck possession player... Those are all clear signs of Therrien trying to rein in Subban, to change his usual style to a more conservative one which has already proven to be a disaster as far as P.K.'s effectiveness goes.

And that doesn't even include what's being said behind closed doors.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Maybe Karlsson is a better comparable, but you don't win anything with a defenseman playing an ad lib game.

Therrien has never prevented Subban from being creative and handling the puck. He had by far his best year last season. People use their personal agendas to blame Therrien when Subban has an off night or a rough patch, yet he was a Norris last year with him under the bench.

Have you ever criticized Therrien for anything?

 

[Monctonscout]

Balderdash. A player like Subban is the rare kind of player who can control a game when he is on the ice and make other teams react to him. If you try to bottle him up, you lose that, and we've seen the results.

Not sure how you figure that Subban is "bottled up". He has 91 points in 121 games with the current coaching staff.

From what I gather the coaching staff just wants him to consider game situations and on ice situations. Take the play if it's there but don't try and beat 4 guys like the play where he get caught up at the opposing blueline and gave up a SHG. He needs to understand that sometimes "less is more".

 

[Monctonscout]

Have you ever criticized Therrien for anything?

Not scratching Eller a few times in the last couple months as a wake up call. For using timeouts on icings too much. For not having Galchenyuk on the PP pre Olympics.