Owners Fear They've Been Tricked

[Flyguy_1ca]

Sorry if this has already been posted:

McKenzie: How serious was last week's 'progress?'

TSN.ca Staff

4/12/2005

Some of the NHL's owners are wondering if they're being played by NHLPA boss Bob Goodenow, who a week ago Monday talked about a concept that looked an awful lot like "linkage."

You may also recall the surprising sense of optimism coming out of that get together.

Click to read more...

 

[EricBowser]

Does anyone in the media care to report the fact the CBA isn't done once the sides can ever agree on the payroll system?

Both sides still need to work on and agree to the following issues

1. Length of the CBA
2. Definitions
3. Agent Certification
4. Entry Draft
5. Entry Level Compensation
6. Free Agency
7. Standard Player Contract - Salary/Award
8. Salary Arbitration - Qualifying Offer
9. Waivers and Loans
10. Player Assignments
11. Training Camp - and expenses
12. Game Schedule, Player Rosters, Reserve Lists, Practices
13. Grievances, Arbitration, Impartial Arbitrator
14. Commissioner Discipline
15. Per Diem Allowance
16. Game Tickets
17. Pension Plan
18. Participation in Development of Playing Rules
19. Insurance Coverages
20. International Hockey Games
21. Endorsements; Licensing
22. Transition Rules
and probably a ton more

Fact is, the NHL and NHLPA are not even close to having a formal agreement in rough draft form so for anyone involved in the media, NHL or NHLPA to portray positive progress is doing nothing but flaming the fire of hope and in reality, hurting the game's ability to come back on good standing with the fans.

I've been told by a team official, the latest talks were generally positive but nowhere near the amount needed to justify the so-called great news reports being generated across Canada and some US cities.

The NHL is interested in the NHLPA proposal but such an offer was missing key ingredients to form a true excitement, you know such as what the NHLPA is willing to do on many of the systemic issues that have plagued the league for the past decade.

 

[no13matssundin]

It should be obvious to all people that all Goodenow and the PA are doing is attempting to weaken the NHL's impasse argument before the NLRB by saying that "progress" was made. The PA have absolutely no intention of going through with any of the "progress" that was reported. The ONLY reason why there was a meeting in which "progress" was made was so that when the NHL does come before the NLRB in response to the PA's charge of impasse not being reached, they can pull out this nugget and attempt to strengthen their argument.

Kinda sad, really.

 

[Flyguy_1ca]

That's exactly it....and that's why if this goes to replacement players the fans need to support it...that is the only sure fire way to destroy Goodenow

 

[Morbo]

Do you guys want to buy a Bob Goodenow voodoo doll, so that you can stick pins in his face when you're offline?

 

[Drury_Sakic]

All odds point to this being true....




But I can still hope.. even if its just false hope..

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

This is EXACTLY what's going on. The PA suddenly had a big change of heart and was willing to give into linkage for no apparent reason. Unless you realize that the NHL came out all happy and saying "great progress was made"...all the time Goodenow snickers with Satan in the corner. Knowing that impass is much harder to get.

this is called surface bargaining and the courts would recognize it as such and it holds no water. neither side can make an offer that is designed simply to support their case in court.

at least thats how i understand it.

dr

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

That's exactly it....and that's why if this goes to replacement players the fans need to support it...that is the only sure fire way to destroy Goodenow

Once the season was closed I did my best not to help the owners or the players. I haven't bought anything with their sheild on it, I even avoided their half assed sim leagues. But it looks like Goodenow needs to have his grapes handed to him, and the only way to do this would be support the scabs. Let's get this party started!

 

[19nazzy]

Lets just blame the NHLPA for everything in this whole mess right?
None of it is the owners fault?

 

[Hunter74]

Lets just blame the NHLPA for everything in this whole mess right?
None of it is the owners fault?

Great idea.

Stick it to em Bettman!!!

 

[SPARTAKUS*]

But it seems more and more that the owners will not go with replacement players. What then?

 

[SENSible1*]

I hope the scenario painted by McKenzie isn't accurate, but it certainly is plausible.

But it seems more and more that the owners will not go with replacement players. What then?

Let them rot until the come crawling back. Sure they can eventually kill the league, but they'd be killing their own bank accounts too.

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Admiral Akbar: IT'S A TRAB !

 

[nyr7andcounting]

Give 'em hell NHL! Set the cap at 30 million and no replacements! Just stay the course!...in 2-3 years they'll be begging to come back!

Genius idea, than we can have a strike in 4 or 5 years and do this all over again! If you cared one bit for the league you would want a fair deal that solves problems, not an unfair one that causes more and newer problems.

 

[Tawnos]

How is this any worse than the NHL's "obvious" plan to use replacements from the beginning? They were never truly interested in negotiations either.

 

[txpd]

How is this any worse than the NHL's "obvious" plan to use replacements from the beginning? They were never truly interested in negotiations either.

You may have missed this paragraph in the same mckenzie piece, "So will it be replacements or no replacements? Don't be surprised if it's the latter, but the most pressing issue right now is to find out what the NHLPA's intentions are on the concept they put forward last week."

the latter=no replacements

 

[Flyguy_1ca]

I don't understand why there are people that think the owners aren't trying to bargain? I don't get it! They've proved that they're losing a great deal of money...although the PA claims they're "only" losing something like 250 million (lol)...The owners have given a lot of time and patience into a deal that DOES NOT involve linkage...which I think is frankly too kind. A deal with linkage is the most fair way to do this. The better the league does, the better the players do...it's in everyone's best interest to sell the sport. Everyone wins! There's a lot of industries in North America that use pay scales similar to that. If the company does well, its employees reap rewards. If the company does not, jobs are lost and pay is cut....Why is this so bad for the PA? Why are they so much better than the rest of the world?

The PA says it just wants a "fair deal"...well, that sounds fair to me.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Judges are not idiots, they have seen it all, and then some over the years. The NLRB board members are in all respects basically Judges. Goodenow may think that he is being clever, but there is nothing that Judges hate more than lawyers who think that they are more clever than the Judges that they are arguing before and who play games at their expense. Goodenow is playing with fire if this is his game.

 

[preddevil]

Do you guys want to buy a Bob Goodenow voodoo doll, so that you can stick pins in his face when you're offline?

That would be great. Where can I get one of those dolls?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

That would be great. Where can I get one of those dolls?

http://www.palleyd.com/chucky-new.html

 

[Drury_Sakic]

But it seems more and more that the owners will not go with replacement players. What then?

That is the question...

I am starting to feel like(even without the latest round of fake NHLPA talks) that the NHL's odds are 40-60 against winning a NLRB court case...

Where that leads us.. I don't know..


Bob might be right.. he does have SOME leverage here IMO.... but rather than use it to try and get the NHL to fold.. he should use it to gain a few points in an offer rather than piss it away in another grudge match..

 

[Flyguy_1ca]

Well, if there's no replacements...then this continues as it has so far. Do you really think the players would be willing to kill another season?? When January rolls around, any reasonable deal by the owners would get accepted whether Goodbar likes it or not. A lot of players seemed annoyed enough after this past season got cancelled. Owners just have to have the sense and coconuts to see this through. Goodenow's gambling that they don't

 

[BLONG7]

Well, if there's no replacements...then this continues as it has so far. Do you really think the players would be willing to kill another season?? When January rolls around, any reasonable deal by the owners would get accepted whether Goodbar likes it or not. A lot of players seemed annoyed enough after this past season got cancelled. Owners just have to have the sense and coconuts to see this through. Goodenow's gambling that they don't

Goodenow has already lost that gamble...if Knob is still playing games with all this foolishness and his members get wind of this, that he actually still thinks he has leverage...the PA will fire his a$$ for sure. I would think he is smart enough to quit with the head games and get on with getting the best deal he can get for his bosses...the PA.

 

[chiavsfan]

You would think so, but we have seen throughout this charade that Goodenow always thinks he can squeeze that extra dollar out of the NHL...and when the NHL declines, he runs to the media and whines

IT'S THEIR FAULT!!!!! WE NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG, IT'S ALL GARY'S FAULT!!! OUR DECMBER 9TH PROPOSAL IS GREAT, IT ADDRESSES NOTHING BUT IT'S GREAT ASK ME!!!

 

[Levitate]

I find it hard to believe that everything the PA does is just to avoid an impasse...you're basically saying the NHLPA has no interest in signing a CBA and just wants to keep the league from declaring an impasse.

I really don't believe it...to what end does the NHLPA play these games, ultimately? so they "avoid" an impasse...but they're still out of a job! they can only sit around and stall so long, if that's their gameplan like you people seem to be making it out to be.

They have to get a CBA in place if they want to go back to work (for most of the NHLPA at any rate) and negotiating without that in mind makes no sense


and personally i just "love" how the pro-owner crowd jumps all over wild speculation like this as fact and crows "this is EXACTLY what's going on!"