Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[wetcoast]

I think most players trying to break a major counting-stat record, or reach a major milestone, in any sport, aren't contributing all that much to their teams as they approach said record. They're just there for the chase.

Pete Rose was almost useless as he chased Cobb. Rickey Henderson as he chased down both Cobb (runs scored) and Ruth (walks) and the 3000 hits mark. Hank Aaron when he went back to Milwaukee, having broken Ruth's HR record but was still chasing his RBI record. Lots of pitchers with the 300 win mark (consider Early Wynn).

None of those records or milestones are considered any less legitimate for the players in question having stuck around as bit players or shells of their former selves to get there. Very few records or major milestones are reached by players when they're still in their prime.

Interesting comparison but is comparing baseball to hockey really a good choice ehre?

Most batters don't succeed in their AB's so the first 3 position players were most likely playing in the bottom of the batting order or as pinch hitters/runners late in their careers and the sP wasn't horrible as lots of #4 and #5 SP are just filling innings.

In hockey the 5 on 5 component is quite important and Ovi ahs been hurting his team the last couple of years in that department quite a bit.

Most of the "pushback" on Ovi's winddown years towards the goal scoring record is the claim that he is still a great all around player or leading his team this year ect...when the eye test was quite apparent and the stats matched the eye test.

He wasn't unlucky he is just near the end.

Yes I think he will get the record but his play isn't going to suddenly get better over the course of a season and it's going to be a very long 2 years.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

very unpopular opinion here, but i want the Caps to give Ovie the Ray Bourque treatment and let him play his last two years with some talent. I think he still makes the right team better as a second line LW and a powerplay fixture.

Nah. He already won a cup with Washington. Been there his whole career, I don’t know why he’d want to go somewhere else for the record.

 

[Dingo]

Nah. He already won a cup with Washington. Been there his whole career, I don’t know why he’d want to go somewhere else for the record.

because he might not get it in Washington. I mean, he probably will, but if he went to a good team he would get it much more quickly, before injury or age can take away the opportunity.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

because he might not get it in Washington. I mean, he probably will, but if he went to a good team he would get it much more quickly, before injury or age can take away the opportunity.

He’ll get it within two years. His shooting or was out of whack. Once it normalized he went back to normal. He’ll score 30+ next year.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Most of the "pushback" on Ovi's winddown years towards the goal scoring record is the claim that he is still a great all around player or leading his team this year ect...when the eye test was quite apparent and the stats matched the eye test.

He wasn't unlucky he is just near the end.

Yes I think he will get the record but his play isn't going to suddenly get better over the course of a season and it's going to be a very long 2 years.

The pushback is against the idea that they would sell out the franchise to get him the record, despite the fact that they have correctly sold at the deadline two years in a row and correctly hired a coach for the sole purpose of growing young players.

Nobody can say they know how he'll look next year. Nobody thought he'd get to 30 goals this year after the first 43 games. And going from that to completely invisible against NYR was also unexpected (no , nobody thought he'd look like 2018 in the playoffs at 38 but maybe just a bit better than the objectively horrible performance he displayed)

Maybe he drops 20 pounds this offseason or completely changes his workout plan. Maybe an infusion of talent on a team without any helps. Maybe he sits down with Carberry to devise a plan. Who knows.

 

[StreetHawk]

He didn’t look as fit as he should have been this season. Will he clean that up? I mean I don’t see Wash doing much aside from retooling their team to compete once all of their cup winning guys save for Wilson are done their contracts.

Final year of Oshie, and Kuz retention, plus Backstrom on ltir. Then the following year Ovy and Carlson are done their deals. Basically leaving Wilson left and his 6 years left on his deal.

Aim isn’t to be better at the cost of young players. Need to develop the next group. Get Ovy the record which he should get in 25/26 season.

 

[Dingo]

He’ll get it within two years. His shooting or was out of whack. Once it normalized he went back to normal. He’ll score 30+ next year.

hope you are right..... still wouldnt mind seeing him get 50 one more time, haha

 

[Bear of Bad News]

This thread doesn't need to turn into an outhouse every 20 posts, and if it takes prolonged thread bans to make that happen, that's what will happen.

(If you can read this, then don't worry as you haven't been impacted.)

 

[tarheelhockey]

Interesting comparison but is comparing baseball to hockey really a good choice ehre?

Most batters don't succeed in their AB's so the first 3 position players were most likely playing in the bottom of the batting order or as pinch hitters/runners late in their careers and the sP wasn't horrible as lots of #4 and #5 SP are just filling innings.

In hockey the 5 on 5 component is quite important and Ovi ahs been hurting his team the last couple of years in that department quite a bit.

Most of the "pushback" on Ovi's winddown years towards the goal scoring record is the claim that he is still a great all around player or leading his team this year ect...when the eye test was quite apparent and the stats matched the eye test.

He wasn't unlucky he is just near the end.

Yes I think he will get the record but his play isn't going to suddenly get better over the course of a season and it's going to be a very long 2 years.

TBH I don’t think this is all that different from Rangers-era Gretzky, who was a similar-level player to 2024 Ovie. Still an excellent passer (much like Ovie is still an excellent shooter) but he became rather one-dimensional and didn’t elevate his team at all. His career became all about “Gretzky in the NYC market” and not about winning games.

Gretzky got to 894 by scoring a paltry 9 goals in his final season, and 57 in total with the Rangers. If he had stopped in the summer of 1996 and retired because he wasn’t playing meaningful hockey any more, then Ovechkin would already have surpassed the record by now. It’s precisely because Gretz went through this phase that Ovie has to go through it too.

So I think people are making more of this than it needs to be. The record chase is special in its own right, and it was never going to be about someone surpassing it while still in his prime. Ovie is a special enough player that he’s at least doing it while scoring at a high rate, much like Gretzky still being an elite assist man until the end, so we should just enjoy it for what it is.

 

[wetcoast]

TBH I don’t think this is all that different from Rangers-era Gretzky, who was a similar-level player to 2024 Ovie. Still an excellent passer (much like Ovie is still an excellent shooter) but he became rather one-dimensional and didn’t elevate his team at all. His career became all about “Gretzky in the NYC market” and not about winning games.

Gretzky got to 894 by scoring a paltry 9 goals in his final season, and 57 in total with the Rangers. If he had stopped in the summer of 1996 and retired because he wasn’t playing meaningful hockey any more, then Ovechkin would already have surpassed the record by now. It’s precisely because Gretz went through this phase that Ovie has to go through it too.

So I think people are making more of this than it needs to be. The record chase is special in its own right, and it was never going to be about someone surpassing it while still in his prime. Ovie is a special enough player that he’s at least doing it while scoring at a high rate, much like Gretzky still being an elite assist man until the end, so we should just enjoy it for what it is.

I agree with this and it came up in another thread as Gretzky was scoring a ton of assists but his actual total impact at the end was much less in the NHL than it was in fantasy leagues....everyone ages.

 

[NVious]

The fact that Ovechkin is gonna break Gretzky's record makes me sick and is a disgrace to hockey

Ovechkin adds little to no value to his team at this stage of his career, but his coaching staff will keep shoving him down people's throat by giftting him every opportunity possible on the PP, EN situations and top minutes.

Caps made the playoffs, but as we all saw, they had no business being there. They got exposed, and rightly so, got the ugliest sweep in recent years.

Only on the internet is somebody breaking one of the greatest sports records of all time a disgrace lmfao.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The fact that Ovechkin is gonna break Gretzky's record makes me sick and is a disgrace to hockey

Ovechkin adds little to no value to his team at this stage of his career, but his coaching staff will keep shoving him down people's throat by giftting him every opportunity possible on the PP, EN situations and top minutes.

Caps made the playoffs, but as we all saw, they had no business being there. They got exposed, and rightly so, got the ugliest sweep in recent years.

This is a terrible post.

The Caps are a brutal club and Ovi is the only thing going for them now. On a bad year with a bad shooting percentage he still racked up 30 goals and dragged that team to the playoffs at 38 years old.

 

[SkinsFan09]

The fact that Ovechkin is gonna break Gretzky's record makes me sick and is a disgrace to hockey

Ovechkin adds little to no value to his team at this stage of his career, but his coaching staff will keep shoving him down people's throat by giftting him every opportunity possible on the PP, EN situations and top minutes.

Caps made the playoffs, but as we all saw, they had no business being there. They got exposed, and rightly so, got the ugliest sweep in recent years.

People actually look at the Capitals roster and act like someone else should be getting all those minutes.

They weren't exposed, they looked exactly like they did all season, a team with no proven offensive talent aside from players over the hill.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Ovechkin's overall game at this stage of his career makes him a liability every time he steps on the ice. Scoring 30 goals being gifted every opportunity isn't that impressive. He doesn't really deserve a spot on the PP anymore, but no chance Caps would ever take him off there until he's broken the record.

It is what it is. For the next couple of years we'll see an old washed up man play 20 minutes a night and all powerplays and EN situations in a chase for the record. The only question is whether he'll end op with more minuses than goals. It's a distraction for the entire franchise. They're stuck in this phase until Ovechkin either breaks the record or retires.

Who exactly deserves that spot? What with all the top 6 talent the Capitals have up and down their lineup.

Distraction? They've correctly been big sellers at the deadline the last two seasons and got rid of a coach who only plays vets. It is not impeding what is clearly a rebuild happening around him.

 

[Toby91ca]

Gretzky got to 894 by scoring a paltry 9 goals in his final season, and 57 in total with the Rangers. If he had stopped in the summer of 1996 and retired because he wasn’t playing meaningful hockey any more, then Ovechkin would already have surpassed the record by now. It’s precisely because Gretz went through this phase that Ovie has to go through it too.

wait a minute, you do realize Gretzky finished 4th in scoring in 1997 and scored 20pts in the playoffs (went to conference finals), then followed it up by finishing 3rd in scoring in 1998 right?

In his final season in 1999 he finished 29th in PPG and decided it was not up to his normal standards and retired….cant remember when he made that decision to retire but it was certainly before the end of the season as everyone knew he was retiring

 

[Fatass]

OV can still play but holy it’s hard watching him like this. He’s a shell of his former greatness. It’s like watching a once great boxer come back and get embarrassed by lesser competitors. I know he wants the record but darn it’s hard to watch him. He’s not OV anymore.

 

[crazy8888]

The reason it's hard to believe is because you are equating counting stating with actual level of play which were 2 different things.

Ovi just plain looked out of place this series and anyone thinking otherwise would be wise to not try getting to cute by half.

Ovi has had a great ride and some great seasons and great playoffs but he absolutely looked cooked this series plain and simple.

Yes he sucked. Worst series of his career, and its not even close. Frankly, one of his worst 4 consecutive games played, probably in his whole career. I just don't get why it cant just stop there. Sure, its plain and simple to you on your couch that he is cooked. Thing is though, for many people its been “plain and simple” that he was cooked even in 2011. And then a few times after that. Every time he hits a rough patch in his career some people start writing a eulogy for his career. Been wrong every time so far so there is that. But if this is really the beggining of the end. Then so be it. It has not been a great ride, its been one of the best rides ever. No need for backhanded compliments.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes he sucked. Worst series of his career, and its not even close. Frankly, one of his worst 4 consecutive games played, probably in his whole career. I just don't get why it cant just stop there. Sure, its plain and simple to you on your couch that he is cooked. Thing is though, for many people its been “plain and simple” that he was cooked even in 2011. And then a few times after that. Every time he hits a rough patch in his career some people start writing a eulogy for his career. Been wrong every time so far so there is that. But if this is really the beggining of the end. Then so be it. It has not been a great ride, its been one of the best rides ever. No need for backhanded compliments.

38 year old on a crap team had a bad series against maybe the best team in the league. Not surprising and not important. The fact that Ovi was able to drag that team to the playoffs to begin with is the real story.

 

[wetcoast]

Yes he sucked. Worst series of his career, and its not even close. Frankly, one of his worst 4 consecutive games played, probably in his whole career. I just don't get why it cant just stop there. Sure, its plain and simple to you on your couch that he is cooked. Thing is though, for many people its been “plain and simple” that he was cooked even in 2011. And then a few times after that. Every time he hits a rough patch in his career some people start writing a eulogy for his career. Been wrong every time so far so there is that. But if this is really the beggining of the end. Then so be it. It has not been a great ride, its been one of the best rides ever. No need for backhanded compliments.

I think people get caught up in the all or nothing arguments around here sometimes and it wasn't a backhanded compliment it was how I view his career and every career has an arc and like I said upthread or maybe in the other thread he has been to me the best goalscorer of all time but the pushback comes to the small minority that can't take any comment that isn't drinking their kool aid as an insult and people should perhaps separate the posts from the posters as many others say pretty much the same thing yet their direct their outrage (not directing this at you but in general) to posters and not the actual posts themselves.

But maybe I'm old-school i call them like I see them and I treated my hometown Sedins and their aging curve the same way and the diehard fanatical Canuck fans had fits about it as well.

The funny thing is that I'm reading the post that you are quoting and you and me agree and then you still are somehow upset and call it a backhanded compliment and it's just not there.

Gretzky at the end was putting up points but his actual value wasn't the same as his points indicated but he is still the ebst player of all time right?

McDavid is the best player in the NHL right now and one day he will decline and if he doesn't win a SC some will hold it against him even if his individual performance in the playoffs suggest otherwise.

People just get too hung up sometimes on some narratives and posters instead of reading the posts independently.

On a computer it's hard , maybe due to my lack of technical skills, but on the phone it's easy to read posts without seeing who writes them it's an interesting exercise people should try more often.

 

[crazy8888]

I think people get caught up in the all or nothing arguments around here sometimes and it wasn't a backhanded compliment it was how I view his career and every career has an arc and like I said upthread or maybe in the other thread he has been to me the best goalscorer of all time but the pushback comes to the small minority that can't take any comment that isn't drinking their kool aid as an insult and people should perhaps separate the posts from the posters as many others say pretty much the same thing yet their direct their outrage (not directing this at you but in general) to posters and not the actual posts themselves.

But maybe I'm old-school i call them like I see them and I treated my hometown Sedins and their aging curve the same way and the diehard fanatical Canuck fans had fits about it as well.

The funny thing is that I'm reading the post that you are quoting and you and me agree and then you still are somehow upset and call it a backhanded compliment and it's just not there.

Gretzky at the end was putting up points but his actual value wasn't the same as his points indicated but he is still the ebst player of all time right?

McDavid is the best player in the NHL right now and one day he will decline and if he doesn't win a SC some will hold it against him even if his individual performance in the playoffs suggest otherwise.

People just get too hung up sometimes on some narratives and posters instead of reading the posts independently.

On a computer it's hard , maybe due to my lack of technical skills, but on the phone it's easy to read posts without seeing who writes them it's an interesting exercise people should try more often.

We both agree that he had bad 4 games/season in general. But only one of us is talking about him half way in past tense. Anyway, we all been here before. Time will tell.

 

[tarheelhockey]

wait a minute, you do realize Gretzky finished 4th in scoring in 1997 and scored 20pts in the playoffs (went to conference finals), then followed it up by finishing 3rd in scoring in 1998 right?

In his final season in 1999 he finished 29th in PPG and decided it was not up to his normal standards and retired….cant remember when he made that decision to retire but it was certainly before the end of the season as everyone knew he was retiring

Yes I do realize that, I was following the league in that era. Like I said, Gretzky was still an elite assist man at that time. He was decidedly not Wayne Gretzky and his overall game had suffered quite a bit. Nobody was scared of his shot, he was terrible defensively, and the Rangers lost a lot more games than they won. But he could still pass with the best of them.

In other words it was a totally normal and expected decline after 35. Very similar to what we’re watching with Ovechkin.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

Ovechkin's overall game at this stage of his career makes him a liability every time he steps on the ice. Scoring 30 goals being gifted every opportunity isn't that impressive. He doesn't really deserve a spot on the PP anymore, but no chance Caps would ever take him off there until he's broken the record.

It is what it is. For the next couple of years we'll see an old washed up man play 20 minutes a night and all powerplays and EN situations in a chase for the record. The only question is whether he'll end op with more minuses than goals. It's a distraction for the entire franchise. They're stuck in this phase until Ovechkin either breaks the record or retires.

He carried a dogshit team to the playoffs but he's a liability every time he steps on the ice.

Just hilarious. It literally doesn't make any sense.

 

[Despote]

He carried a dogshit team to the playoffs but he's a liability every time he steps on the ice.

Just hilarious. It literally doesn't make any sense.

Caps were once again a better team when he was off the ice. Their young players got them to playoffs.

 

[Hanji]

Caps were once again a better team when he was off the ice. Their young players got them to playoffs.

With what offense?
Not a single young player on the Caps scored more than 33 points.

 

[Albatros]

Teemu Selanne and Mark Recchi, two of the forwards with great longevity, still were no where near their peak from 37 onwards. (Although granted Selanne did have one of the best 40+ age seasons we've ever seen)

Selänne also led not only the Ducks but the entire league at 40 in playoff scoring after the first round of the 2011 playoffs. Six goals in six games although the Ducks were eliminated. That with almost equally old Jason Blake and Saku Koivu as his even-strength linemates, he was in PP1 of course.