Out of trade chips?

[tom_servo]

Call me crazy...but I wouldn't mind seeing a couple games of young kids with something to prove. Maybe not the ones that get blown out 7-2...but I'd gladly like to watch a 06-07 Pens like team right now...

Eh... I'd be much too bitter to enjoy it like last time.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Are we talking playoff success? Because if so, yes we most certainly need to make a trade or two to shore up the defense.

We don't know what we'll need come playoff time. Right now there's Maatta adjusting to game speed after a year-long layoff, Cole playing on his wrong side, Scuderi seeing a regular shift, and Pouliot getting his head right in WBS. A lot can change if some of those things are remedied by the deadline.

 

[WayneSid9987]

We don't know what we'll need come playoff time. Right now there's Maatta adjusting to game speed after a year-long layoff, Cole playing on his wrong side, Scuderi seeing a regular shift, and Pouliot getting his head right in WBS. A lot can change if some of those things are remedied by the deadline.

It's pretty clear the biggest need is a competent #3-4D that can play well in their own end. I don't see Pouliot being that this year atleast.

Realistically, it will be Letang, Maata and Domoulin. Need another to round out a decent top 4.

Other than that, another top LW'er would be nice but that shouldn't be JR's biggest concern. Theres enough wingers to make 4 good lines imo. Hell, you can even put Geno on Sid's wing and still round out a nice F group.

Example:
Geno-Sid-Kessel/Bennett
Perron-Fehr/Bones-Kessel/Bennett
Plots/Dupuis/Kunitz-Fehr/Bones-Hornqvist/Sprong
Plots/Dupuis/Kunitz-Cullen-Hornqvist/Sprong

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's pretty clear the biggest need is a competent #3-4D that can play well in their own end. I don't see Pouliot being that this year atleast.

Realistically, it will be Letang, Maata and Domoulin. Need another to round out a decent top 4.

Other than that, another top LW'er would be nice but that shouldn't be JR's biggest concern. Theres enough wingers to make 4 good lines imo. Hell, you can even put Geno on Sid's wing and still round out a nice F group.

Example:
Geno-Sid-Kessel/Bennett
Perron-Fehr/Bones-Kessel/Bennett
Plots/Dupuis/Kunitz-Fehr/Bones-Hornqvist/Sprong
Plots/Dupuis/Kunitz-Cullen-Hornqvist/Sprong

A few short weeks ago very few would have put Dumoulin above Cole on our depth chart. The only things that have changed have been Dumo having a great start and Cole having a poor start playing on his wrong side.

Cole may not be the player we need in that 4 spot. But he realistically could be. Right now, we don't know.

 

[pistolpete11]

If Cole being the #4 is one the biggest roster problem come the deadline, they will be in pretty good shape. That means Letang and Maatta get back to where they should be and Dumoulin continues his strong play. It also means that Crosby gets things straightened out. Lastly it would mean that Scuderi and/or Kunitz are out of the lineup one way or another.

I'd love to see a #2 or #3 brought in, but I don't see how that's going to happen without parting with something that will create a bigger hole. Role with that ya got and hope for the best. If something falls in your lap, sure, but enough with the bandaids.

 

[BADoglick]

You know, while the Pens have mismanaged their cap space, given out a few bad contracts, and missed and thrown away some draft choices, everyone's pessimistic opinion on the team is more than a little absurd. They have the best offensive depth they have ever had, with their two top right wings set in stone, then Kunitz, Perron, Plotnikov, Bennett, Sprong, and Fehr filling out the rest of the spots. Bonino has been a vast improvement over Sutter. Cullen has been much better than the likes of Joe Vitale, Marcel Goc, and Craig Adams as a fourth line center. Just look at the roster compared to a couple years ago when we were rolling out Kobasew, Adams, Glass, and Gibbons on a regular basis. As for defense, while Scuderi is a liability, if they replaced him with a legit top four defender, their whole unit would be one of the better or at least more average instead of subpar ones in the league. Letang, Cole, Maata, Dumoulin, and yes, even Lovejoy if he's on a bottom pairing, makes for a decent group if they can get even someone on par with like Cody Franson to round it out. Maybe even Pouliot can be that guy. Fleury has been consistently lights out, Zatkoff has been a very solid backup, it's awesome knowing we have a guy like Murray in the system just in case, so we're set on goalie.

To say this team is an easy first round exit is a joke. They need to come together and figure out where everyone fits, and they could use a move on defense, but overall I'm very optimistic about the direction of this team. While their trade pieces are limited, that's how it should be when you're contending. And they are. Other teams have their holes as well. But I honestly believe this team is a top four defenseman away from being one of the favorites, and we have pieces like Murray, Pouliot, and Perron if we really found someone worth trading for.

 

[tom_servo]

You know, while the Pens have mismanaged their cap space, given out a few bad contracts, and missed and thrown away some draft choices, everyone's pessimistic opinion on the team is more than a little absurd. They have the best offensive depth they have ever had, with their two top right wings set in stone, then Kunitz, Perron, Plotnikov, Bennett, Sprong, and Fehr filling out the rest of the spots. Bonino has been a vast improvement over Sutter. Cullen has been much better than the likes of Joe Vitale, Marcel Goc, and Craig Adams as a fourth line center. Just look at the roster compared to a couple years ago when we were rolling out Kobasew, Adams, Glass, and Gibbons on a regular basis. As for defense, while Scuderi is a liability, if they replaced him with a legit top four defender, their whole unit would be one of the better or at least more average instead of subpar ones in the league. Letang, Cole, Maata, Dumoulin, and yes, even Lovejoy if he's on a bottom pairing, makes for a decent group if they can get even someone on par with like Cody Franson to round it out. Maybe even Pouliot can be that guy. Fleury has been consistently lights out, Zatkoff has been a very solid backup, it's awesome knowing we have a guy like Murray in the system just in case, so we're set on goalie.

To say this team is an easy first round exit is a joke. They need to come together and figure out where everyone fits, and they could use a move on defense, but overall I'm very optimistic about the direction of this team. While their trade pieces are limited, that's how it should be when you're contending. And they are. Other teams have their holes as well. But I honestly believe this team is a top four defenseman away from being one of the favorites, and we have pieces like Murray, Pouliot, and Perron if we really found someone worth trading for.

There will be pessimism probably until they win a round.

Now that the bottom half of the team is scoring, and the goaltending had been great, the top half of the team has been mediocre to straight bad for about 82 games, including last playoff. Should that inspire anyone?

You know, I skimmed your post history just to get a sense of where you're coming from (because underused accounts show up here all the time to offer big takes on perspective), and I noticed you once visited Buffalo's board to happily report a synopsis of Dan Bylsma's worst habits. So, you hated the Bylsma years, and you think the Pens are far removed from that murk? Johnston has a lot to prove. Until then, there's justified pessimism.

 

[WayneSid9987]

A few short weeks ago very few would have put Dumoulin above Cole on our depth chart. The only things that have changed have been Dumo having a great start and Cole having a poor start playing on his wrong side.

Cole may not be the player we need in that 4 spot. But he realistically could be. Right now, we don't know.

Cole has alot of NHL work under his belt though(206 GP). He's pegged as a #5-6 at best imo. Same as LJ.

We are just seeing what Domoulin could truly be at the NHL level now as a 24 year old after lots of AHL seasoning. (33 NHL GP)

Point being Cole probably overachieved a little when he first came to the Pens and we are just seeing what Domoulin can achieve at this level.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Cole has alot of NHL work under his belt though(206 GP). He's pegged as a #5-6 at best imo. Same as LJ.

We are just seeing what Domoulin could truly be at the NHL level now as a 24 year old after lots of AHL seasoning. (33 NHL GP)

Point being Cole probably overachieved a little when he first came to the Pens and we are just seeing what Domoulin can achieve at this level.

Why are you using Cole's performance on his wrong side as his new standard rather than waiting to see whether playing the left has affected his play, considering he did so well with us under this system last year? People have no problem excusing wing performance under the same circumstances.

Maybe Cole did overachieve. Or maybe he's playing worse because he's not on his natural side. We don't have the sample size to find out definitively one way or the other.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

It all depends on what we want to value. Kunitz, Scuds, LJ, Duper all have value. Kunitz could bring back a 3rd, Duper a 3rd, Scuds a 6th/7th, LJ a 3rd/4th. So lets say we get get tops on all those going out, 3 3rds and a 6th...that means more young players into the organization. That is what we need. Or we package those up for a 2nd and try to get another Sprong type. They are out there. We just have to be willing to let go...and the Penguins are not ready. They still firmly believe that Kunitz is a staple in the bottom 6 and still a top 6 player with Sid. They firmly believe that Duper is the glue that holds everyone together. They firmly believe that Scuderi in the line up makes a positive impact game in and game out. They attach themselves to the wrong players and it's biting them in the arse.

Trades are out there. There are always trades to be made. For example, you could trade Pouliot for Rychel and there's your LW. Not immediate impact perhaps but you develop him and give him the chances (which with this team is the primary issue). You the turn around and send out Perron for a dman that would help fill the role of Pouliot's absence. Meanwhile, you ship out Kunitz and Scuderi for any picks you can get and draft a couple dmen with them to fill the cupboards back up. Does it suck to lose Perron, yes. Do you have players that can help replace him, yes. Sprong and Fehr immediately, Sundqvist/Porter/Rust/etc in WBS. Does it suck to lose Pouliot, yes. But you get a dman back from Perron that can help now and you make drafting dmen a priority again.

So we always have the trade pieces...just depends on what we are willing to do. What we can't do is say "We love our vets! All in!" and dump more picks and young guys for broken down UFAs like we love to do.

I think your draft pick projected trades are off...I would LOVE to get a 3rd rounder for Kunitz but I doubt we could unless we take back a contract of equal odoriferous emanations, or even stinkier.

There's not a chance we could get a 3rd for Dupuis...maybe a 7th

There's no way we could get 3rd or 4th for Lovejoy, until maybe the deadline (when we become buyers and won't do it).

Scuderi for a 7th is possible, for a 6th seems unlikely.

I agree we have to shift our philosophy and become comfortable with the idea of trading away veterans on bad contracts or expiring contracts, but we're not going to get much for any of these four players.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Dupuis health issues have pretty much eroded any value he has. No team is going to trade for him, so for better or worse, he's a Pen until his contract's up or he hangs them up. Hopefully the later before the former.

Scuderi and Kunitz have value, but it's not clear to whom-- they'd be best off for mentoring young, playoff bound lower-seeds, but who that's going to be this year, I couldn't say. And then there's the problem with the NTCs.

 

[The GM]

Why are you using Cole's performance on his wrong side as his new standard rather than waiting to see whether playing the left has affected his play, considering he did so well with us under this system last year? People have no problem excusing wing performance under the same circumstances.

Maybe Cole did overachieve. Or maybe he's playing worse because he's not on his natural side. We don't have the sample size to find out definitively one way or the other.

With Cole, I think right now it is a combination of all of the above, firstly playing his wrong side with a partner that he did not click and read off well and he has probably lost some confidence now. I think that if he gets put back on his correct side, is taken off the 2nd PP unit and plays a few less minutes, he can easily be a quality #4 d on the 2nd pairing.

 

[Talisman]

If Despress where still in defense!!:/-

 

[The Old Master]

If Despress where still in defense!!:/-

ic, is that you?


free ic.

 

[pc_md]

Letang, Maatta and Dumoulin can handle top4 minutes. Cole is a third pairing D. Lovejoy is a 6th or 7th D. So Pens need a true 4th D that excels in transition. Pouliot will probably become that but it will take 3 years which is too much considering the core is already between 28 and 30 years old.

Dupuis, Scuderi and Kunitz don't have any significant value. Bennett is blossoming so I wouldn't trade him. Hornqvist is too important right now to be traded. Kessel and Bonino just got traded and I doubt their value has gone up since...

That leaves Perron who might still have significant value and is not essential to this team. That probably isn't enough to land a top4 D but it's close. Package him with either Jarry or Murray and a bottom 6 forward and you'll get that Dman.

 

[BADoglick]

There will be pessimism probably until they win a round.

Now that the bottom half of the team is scoring, and the goaltending had been great, the top half of the team has been mediocre to straight bad for about 82 games, including last playoff. Should that inspire anyone?

You know, I skimmed your post history just to get a sense of where you're coming from (because underused accounts show up here all the time to offer big takes on perspective), and I noticed you once visited Buffalo's board to happily report a synopsis of Dan Bylsma's worst habits. So, you hated the Bylsma years, and you think the Pens are far removed from that murk? Johnston has a lot to prove. Until then, there's justified pessimism.

Yes, I think we're pretty far removed. Kessel, Hornqvist, Bonino, Fehr, Sprong, Perron, Cullen, and Plotnikov would argue that they're a better forward group than Kobasew, Gibbons, Glass, Pyatt, etc.

The defense is slightly worse, but if we had Byslma and Shero we probably would have signed Paul Martin to a five year deal with a NTC this offseason instead of trading for Kessel, and you know it. At least they're FINALLY incorporating some of the youth, although I'd like to see Pouliot called up to help fix the PP.

 

[tom_servo]

Yes, I think we're pretty far removed. Kessel, Hornqvist, Bonino, Fehr, Sprong, Perron, Cullen, and Plotnikov would argue that they're a better forward group than Kobasew, Gibbons, Glass, Pyatt, etc.

The defense is slightly worse, but if we had Byslma and Shero we probably would have signed Paul Martin to a five year deal with a NTC this offseason instead of trading for Kessel, and you know it. At least they're FINALLY incorporating some of the youth, although I'd like to see Pouliot called up to help fix the PP.

I noticed that you didn't examine the difference in defensemen. Or notice that the incorporation of Sprong involves about six minutes per game, and Clendening sits in the press box. The "youth incorporation" is Beau, and Dumo. That's it.

You also no comment on the current coach running that superior group into the ground.

You think it's absurd that people are mad? Do you realize it's almost incomprehensible that this team is still doing so poorly and that Crosby/Malkin are nearing 30 and that the prospect pool is bare?