Out of trade chips?

[gac3378]

As I was watching the game last night against the flames, I started thinking about this team down the line. Everyone has talked about the team being on a win streak while not playing good and we saw first hand last night that it won't continue all season. I like what was done to the roster from last year, but everyone knows more needs to happen. The only thing is, what do we have to give up for anything good in return?

At this point we need all the picks that we currently have to restock the prospects. Of the current prospects that we have that may get even a little interest are Murray and Pouliot. The problem with those two is that they are not NHL proven and I don't see them being a number 1 trade chip in a big deal. Now look at our current roster and everyone wants Kunitz and Scuderi traded. They both have clauses in their contracts and most teams are smart enough to avoid these aging players. That pretty much only leaves us with Perron, who is an expiring UFA, and Horny. I can easily argue that both Perron and Horny are better for us on this team than what trade value they hold to the rest of the league.

The pens need to win now, not plan for 5 years. I just struggle to come up with ways for them to do it. Can anyone lift my spirits and give some hope as to how this gets accomplished?

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[joeyjake5]

As I was watching the game last night against the flames, I started thinking about this team down the line. Everyone has talked about the team being on a win streak while not playing good and we saw first hand last night that it won't continue all season. I like what was done to the roster from last year, but everyone knows more needs to happen. The only thing is, what do we have to give up for anything good in return?

At this point we need all the picks that we currently have to restock the prospects. Of the current prospects that we have that may get even a little interest are Murray and Pouliot. The problem with those two is that they are not NHL proven and I don't see them being a number 1 trade chip in a big deal. Now look at our current roster and everyone wants Kunitz and Scuderi traded. They both have clauses in their contracts and most teams are smart enough to avoid these aging players. That pretty much only leaves us with Perron, who is an expiring UFA, and Horny. I can easily argue that both Perron and Horny are better for us on this team than what trade value they hold to the rest of the league.

The pens need to win now, not plan for 5 years. I just struggle to come up with ways for them to do it. Can anyone lift my spirits and give some hope as to how this gets accomplished?

This is the reason the pens are in the sad situation that they are presently in. Win now when you have a flawed team is senseless. Even if the pens make the playoffs, they will exit the first round. Trade anybody, except MAF and draft picks, and that includes the remaining core and all of W_B if it helps the team to improve. Going all in to win now like Shero did to get Ignilia, Murray and Morrow is one of the big reasons for this current sad shape of affairs. Does this management team have the where with all to do this and correct Sheros bad signings, PROBABLY NOT.

 

[SEALBound]

The organization attached themselves to players. Never a good thing. We could have been just fine had we been willing to trade Kunitz, Dupuis, Orpik, Niskanen, Martin, and waive guys like Adams, Scuderi, and Lovejoy. But we weren't willing to do it. We attached ourselves to them in the name of creating a "family" atmosphere. The upper management who view this team as a business (and that's what they are) believe that was the way to profits. Appealing to families and loyalty...so that people could come and watch the players and know them intimately and have that security that they will be there...INSTEAD of running a hockey team, maximizing assets, making tough decisions, drafting well, and surrounding Sid and Geno with the players that can help them get another Cup.

They wanted fans to come watch a collection of lovable players...not a team. Now we have little in value. What we have, we desperately need. Change in GM didn't change the "we are family" mantra of the organization. If it did, Kunitz, Dupuis, Scuderi, Lovejoy, etc would all be gone.

The gamble is...we need to admit defeat in the current mode - trading futures away for present. but that comes at the price of the rest of the last remaining years of Sid and Geno's prime. We can still win it all with them in their early 30's...but that supporting cast comes all too important.

We do have assets: Kunitz, Dupuis, Perron, Bennett, Pouliot, Lovejoy, Scuderi (lol). But is what we can get back worth what we would be giving up? We can't do draft picks anymore...we just can't. We need those young kids. In a bad way. In fact, Kunitz/Dupuis/Lovejoy/Scuderi at the deadline for any amount of picks no matter the round would be a step in the right direction.

 

[Headshot77]

There is no fixing this team for the long term. Our window will close in about 4 years once our core starts reaching 35 and it's going to be X-gen all over again.

 

[SEALBound]

There is no fixing this team for the long term. Our window will close in about 4 years once our core starts reaching 35 and it's going to be X-gen all over again.

Call me crazy...but I wouldn't mind seeing a couple games of young kids with something to prove. Maybe not the ones that get blown out 7-2...but I'd gladly like to watch a 06-07 Pens like team right now...

 

[Pancakes]

There is no fixing this team for the long term. Our window will close in about 4 years once our core starts reaching 35 and it's going to be X-gen all over again.

The only fix I can think of is if we miss the playoffs this year and if Sid continues to have the absolutely horrific season he's having.

If both of those things happen you will see some major changes in philosophy next season. Management will no longer be able to cling to the myth that we're a contender.

 

[#66]

Nope... not out of trading chips yet.

Pouliot and Bennett can be traded for players of the same age that are better fits.

Kessel can be trade for more that what the Pens gave up.

Letang can bring in 2 defensemen that can just go out and be solid. IMO having a defensemen over 6 mill is nuts.

Jarry can be moved.

Not saying any of this needs to be done but if the Pens can become better... why not...

 

[BHD]

Kessel can be trade for more that what the Pens gave up.

They just traded for Kessel.

Letang can bring in 2 defensemen that can just go out and be solid. IMO having a defensemen over 6 mill is nuts.

Keith and Seabrook both make close to 6 while Doughty makes way over that. Guess how many Cups their respective teams have won? A 6 million defensemen is not nuts, assuming he plays like one.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

They just traded for Kessel.



Keith and Seabrook both make close to 6 while Doughty makes way over that. Guess how many Cups their respective teams have won? A 6 million defensemen is not nuts, assuming he plays like one.

Also Keith would be a 10 million dollar defensemen if he didn't take that front loaded contract, and he'd still be worth it!

 

[BHD]

Also Keith would be a 10 million dollar defensemen if he didn't take that front loaded contract, and he'd still be worth it!

Definitely. Letang isn't on the same level as Doughty and Keith. He is, however, a 6 mill defensemen, even if he isn't play like one right now.

 

[td_ice]

No not at all.

But it's kinda like me when I buy that big bag of assorted indvidual sized chips. At a certain point I'm only down to Sun Chips.

So yeah, I still got chips....but, you know......

 

[mpp9]

Team's in a weird place. They're actually pretty close to being a contender. But they still need a couple pieces that aren't cheap to acquire and we have no assets left to trade unless we're basically going all in on winning the next 2-3 years. I.e., Pouliot getting moved or us trading our 1st round pick until 2020.

And not the Ray Shero all in. Like, this team will be X gen level in a few years.

 

[theicebox]

No not at all.

But it's kinda like me when I buy that big bag of assorted indvidual sized chips. At a certain point I'm only down to Sun Chips.

So yeah, I still got chips....but, you know......

Dude... can I have your Sun Chips?

 

[td_ice]

Dude... can I have your Sun Chips?

Sure......I would only throw them at the tv screen, accompanied by yelling profanities, while watching a Chris Kunitz shift.

 

[Headshot77]

I'll trade you a bag of Sun chips for our 2018 first round pick.

 

[td_ice]

I'll trade you a bag of Sun chips for our 2018 first round pick.

You're so funny Rejean.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well, we really don't need to trade for anything right now, so it's not an issue. Our problems mostly revolve around terrible line-up decisions rather than an inadequate roster. If we solve the former and still have glaring issues at the deadline, we have what we need to acquire a middle-pairing defenseman.

 

[Penguinsyay]

Well, we really don't need to trade for anything right now, so it's not an issue. Our problems mostly revolve around terrible line-up decisions rather than an inadequate roster. If we solve the former and still have glaring issues at the deadline, we have what we need to acquire a middle-pairing defenseman.

There are a couple of roster issues, but I agree that the biggest problem seems to be coaching/line-up decisions and not roster. The team plays a style that doesn't suit them, defense pairings are awful, ice time allocation is nonsensical and there are constant poor decisions with the lines in general.

Clandening or DP might not be solutions to our woes at defense, but they'd be a step in the right direction, especially when it comes to moving the puck. Give them a shot and put Maatta with Letang. Add one more middle-pairing D-man if needed, which shouldn't be impossible to do without getting rid of any integral players.

I still think the Pens are stacked when it comes to forward depth, but they need to work Bennett and Sprong into top 6 roles. Other than that I think with some better puck movement from the D and/or some systemic changes they'd be set. I don't think this team needs to have a fire sale like so many people here are calling for.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Teams like the Kings, Rangers, Hawks, Bolts...all stay competitive while still drafting in house talent/signing undrafted talent.

The Pens are terrible at both.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Out of trade chips? No. Out of easy to part with trade chips? Yeah.

 

[Zero Pucks]

Crosby might still have some trade value.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Well, we really don't need to trade for anything right now, so it's not an issue. Our problems mostly revolve around terrible line-up decisions rather than an inadequate roster. If we solve the former and still have glaring issues at the deadline, we have what we need to acquire a middle-pairing defenseman.

Are we talking playoff success? Because if so, yes we most certainly need to make a trade or two to shore up the defense.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If by 'Out of trade chips' you mean out of trade chips we would WANT to trade, trade chips that are easy to move (with good to great value)...then yeah we're out.

Trading Maatta, Bennett, Sprong, Perron, a 1st round pick in 2017, 2018 or 2019, Pouliot, Sundqvist or Simon sounds like a bad idea but they all have value.

Trading the core four (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and Letang) isn't an option, apparently.

Trading Kunitz, Scuderi, Lovejoy or Dupuis would be great but none have any value.

Trading anyone else is probably just trading for the sake of trading.

 

[joeyjake5]

Team's in a weird place. They're actually pretty close to being a contender. But they still need a couple pieces that aren't cheap to acquire and we have no assets left to trade unless we're basically going all in on winning the next 2-3 years. I.e., Pouliot getting moved or us trading our 1st round pick until 2020.

And not the Ray Shero all in. Like, this team will be X gen level in a few years.

They are pretty close to getting the 7th or 8th spot in the East. I know get in and anything is possible.

 

[SEALBound]

Team's in a weird place. They're actually pretty close to being a contender. But they still need a couple pieces that aren't cheap to acquire and we have no assets left to trade unless we're basically going all in on winning the next 2-3 years. I.e., Pouliot getting moved or us trading our 1st round pick until 2020.

And not the Ray Shero all in. Like, this team will be X gen level in a few years.

Successful teams draft players then use them to fill holes when vets can be moved. Bennett should have made Kunitz or Dupuis expendable. Despres, Pouliot, Harrington, or Dumoulin should have made Martin, Orpik, Nisky expendable. In return you get other young players or draft picks to replenish what you send out for pieces you need. Successful teams understand this. Penguins do not.

If by 'Out of trade chips' you mean out of trade chips we would WANT to trade, trade chips that are easy to move (with good to great value)...then yeah we're out.

Trading Maatta, Bennett, Sprong, Perron, a 1st round pick in 2017, 2018 or 2019, Pouliot, Sundqvist or Simon sounds like a bad idea but they all have value.

Trading the core four (Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and Letang) isn't an option, apparently.

Trading Kunitz, Scuderi, Lovejoy or Dupuis would be great but none have any value.

Trading anyone else is probably just trading for the sake of trading.

It all depends on what we want to value. Kunitz, Scuds, LJ, Duper all have value. Kunitz could bring back a 3rd, Duper a 3rd, Scuds a 6th/7th, LJ a 3rd/4th. So lets say we get get tops on all those going out, 3 3rds and a 6th...that means more young players into the organization. That is what we need. Or we package those up for a 2nd and try to get another Sprong type. They are out there. We just have to be willing to let go...and the Penguins are not ready. They still firmly believe that Kunitz is a staple in the bottom 6 and still a top 6 player with Sid. They firmly believe that Duper is the glue that holds everyone together. They firmly believe that Scuderi in the line up makes a positive impact game in and game out. They attach themselves to the wrong players and it's biting them in the arse.

Trades are out there. There are always trades to be made. For example, you could trade Pouliot for Rychel and there's your LW. Not immediate impact perhaps but you develop him and give him the chances (which with this team is the primary issue). You the turn around and send out Perron for a dman that would help fill the role of Pouliot's absence. Meanwhile, you ship out Kunitz and Scuderi for any picks you can get and draft a couple dmen with them to fill the cupboards back up. Does it suck to lose Perron, yes. Do you have players that can help replace him, yes. Sprong and Fehr immediately, Sundqvist/Porter/Rust/etc in WBS. Does it suck to lose Pouliot, yes. But you get a dman back from Perron that can help now and you make drafting dmen a priority again.

So we always have the trade pieces...just depends on what we are willing to do. What we can't do is say "We love our vets! All in!" and dump more picks and young guys for broken down UFAs like we love to do.