Our forward group itself

[habsfanatics*]

The top 6 is terrible, no real number 1 center, no number 1 RWer/number 2 RWer (depending where u put Gally) and no one who can even pretend to be one for short stints. Bottom 6 is ok, 3rd line outside of Eller isn't very exciting either, but overall, there is very little high end talent coming out of the forward position. We have some meh depth at center, could be offset with an elite winger, however, this top 6 has taken steps backwards since the MB hiring.

Actually since we traded AK, it's been downhill ever since, I'm not saying AK was the reason, but the turn was around that time, PG made some moves in the tanking year to get some assets and we haven't recovered since. I'm convinced 90% of this board would have the habs in a similar position or better.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Scoring in hockey involves a lot of factors. Naturally, there is the labor component and the capital component. Coaching is a part of the capital component. While external to the player, can still affect a player's scoring by affecting the scoring chances players on the team can generate.

With differences in system during Therrien's first year and his later years, the evidence points to coaching having some effect on the Habs' offense.

Take a look at the entire body of evidence and look at his entire coaching career. Wherever he's gone he's supressed the team's play vs that of his replacement. It's happened consistently and by a very wide margin.

 

[ECWHSWI]

They lack of skills that's why



48 game season where we got toss in the 1st round is not a proof lol.

they will improve and become better at it by dumping pucks left and right obviously, thanks for the dumping lesson.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

They lack of skills that's why



48 game season where we got toss in the 1st round is not a proof lol.

Proofs involve premises and conclusions.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Take a look at the entire body of evidence and look at his entire coaching career. Wherever he's gone he's supressed the team's play vs that of his replacement. It's happened consistently and by a very wide margin.

Can we move the Therrien talk to the Therrien thread?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Can we move the Therrien talk to the Therrien thread?

The whole thread was predicated on the belief that the coach is being unfairly blamed for this forward group. Its right there in the OP. So no, the Therrien discussion is part of the thread.

I could merge this with the Therrien thread but I think it warrants its own discussion.

 

[Hoople]

Here's the optimistic POV:

Our best prospects currently in the queue are forwards. Andrighetto, Hudon, Reway, Thomas and Lehkonen are all smallish, fast players with decent to very good scoring potential. Two/three years ago this would have not been ideal because the league was about size and power. A bunch of shrimps were NOT what we needed if we wanted to ditch the 'smurf' label. Luckily, since then the NHL has tightened up the head-shot rules and made it easier for teams to move towards speed & skill. These prospects will be getting their shots at the NHL at exactly the right time. If they reach their potential, we could shore up the 2nd line as soon as next season.

And then we have Scherbak and McCarron, both of whom have strong 2nd/3rd line potential, with size.

So even though our current forwards are average, brought down by the top-six, this situation is very close to improving as two or three of the above names join the team over the next two seasons.

Its all about perception.

Tampa Bay is still bigger than the Habs, even if we did not add more smallish players to the roster.

The Bolts have two undersized players, Johnson and JT Brown, who are 5' 8" and 5' 10".

The Black Hawks have do not have any forwards under 5' 11" on the roster. Kane is 5' 11". Definitely not a smurf like DD, Gallagher, Thomas, Andrighetto, Audette, Reway. Hudon is close at 5' 10".

So Montreal will continue to be a small team at forward because a lot of our prospects are undersized. We are boxed in and our forward positions will still be a problem for a while unless we can trade some of these undersized players.

 

[Capitaine Subban*]

they will improve and become better at it by dumping pucks left and right obviously, thanks for the dumping lesson.

Dumping the puck is not a system, it is away to enter the zone. MT hate creating turnovers at the opponents blue line so he seems to ask his player to be consevative there.But when we have space entering the zone, our forward cant make great individual move to create great chances because most of them dont have the right skillset to play like Tampa.

-Galchenyuk has good deking ability, is a good passer but lack of shooting accuracy and take dumb decision so often with the puck so far in his career. (he will be able to create these play in the future though)
-Gallagher is not a creative player and has weak shot. (still a valuable player though)
-Plekaneck is our best center overall but is not the type of player that create tic-tac-toe type of play
-Pacioretty is our only gifted scorer but is no playmaker, he tries but is not that good at passing the puck to the tape of his teammate.
- DD has great hockey sense but lack of speed, deking ability and shooting range to be consistently a threat at creating great plays.
-Eller is Eller
So who should be creating those tic-tac-toe play in our team ?

 

[shawdowmaker]

Man the top six is grotesquee!!!!

 

[ECWHSWI]

Dumping the puck is not a system, it is away to enter the zone. MT hate creating turnovers at the opponents blue line so he seems to ask his player to be consevative there.But when we have space entering the zone, our forward cant make great individual move to create great chances because most of them dont have the right skillset to play like Tampa.

-Galchenyuk has good deking ability, is a good passer but lack of shooting accuracy and take dumb decision so often with the puck so far in his career. (he will be able to create these play in the future though)
-Gallagher is not a creative player and has weak shot. (still a valuable player though)
-Plekaneck is our best center overall but is not the type of player that create tic-tac-toe type of play
-Pacioretty is our only gifted scorer but is no playmaker, he tries but is not that good at passing the puck to the tape of his teammate.
- DD has great hockey sense but lack of speed, deking ability and shooting range to be consistently a threat at creating great plays.
-Eller is Eller
So who should be creating those tic-tac-toe play in our team ?

and yet, it's the players who arent creative enough right ??

 

[Capitaine Subban*]

and yet, it's the players who arent creative enough right ??

Which forwards beside DD and Galchenyuk ,with their flaws, are creative so we can trade chances with our opponent?

 

[montreal]

I think our group is below average not only because we obviously don't score goal but we badly lack skills & creativity with the puck.
Many posters here believe that another coach could make this group a sustainable winning offensive squad. I obviously disagree.

What do u think of our squad ?

this past years team I'd say was below average, lack of skill and creativity. We have a defensive minded coach so I do think a change would help but by how much. I do think when you have Subban/Markov on the point, your PP should not be beyond terrible.

But the organization wants the team to be more grinders and character/role players while playing a sound defensive game. I think it makes sense since getting top line players is very hard to do, so might as well build around your best asset and that's Price. It worked great for NJ for a long time, not saying we can repeat the kind of success they had but I can see what they are trying to do.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Which forwards beside DD and Galchenyuk ,with their flaws, are creative so we can trade chances with our opponent?

DD is creative ??
- refuses to shoot
- makes the same play along the board (stop and wait for a linemate to enter the zone) all the time
- pass to the same player(s) all the time (Patches or the D on his side)


THAT is creativity to you ?? seriously ??

this past years team I'd say was below average, lack of skill and creativity. We have a defensive minded coach so I do think a change would help but by how much. I do think when you have Subban/Markov on the point, your PP should not be beyond terrible.

But the organization wants the team to be more grinders and character/role players while playing a sound defensive game. I think it makes sense since getting top line players is very hard to do, so might as well build around your best asset and that's Price. It worked great for NJ for a long time, not saying we can repeat the kind of success they had but I can see what they are trying to do.

it worked great cause they had good offensive numbers, unlike the Habs.

 

[Wats]

Top 6 has 2 holes but the team is pretty deep in terms of depth/grind. I'd say average but performing at lottery pick team level due to system.

LW
65-70 point LW (26 years old)
?

C
55-60 point C (32 years old)
45-50 point C (21 years old)

RW
45-50 point RW (23 years old)
?

 

[Capitaine Subban*]

this past years team I'd say was below average, lack of skill and creativity. We have a defensive minded coach so I do think a change would help but by how much. I do think when you have Subban/Markov on the point, your PP should not be beyond terrible.

But the organization wants the team to be more grinders and character/role players while playing a sound defensive game. I think it makes sense since getting top line players is very hard to do, so might as well build around your best asset and that's Price. It worked great for NJ for a long time, not saying we can repeat the kind of success they had but I can see what they are trying to do.

Nice post, I would add that our PP sucks nowadays for 2 reason: other teams wont let us shoot from the point and since we can use efficiently the shot from the point our lack of kovalev type player is hurting our chance at creating good offense down low.

 

[Capitaine Subban*]

DD is creative ??
- refuses to shoot
- makes the same play along the board (stop and wait for a linemate to enter the zone) all the time
- pass to the same player(s) all the time (Patches or the D on his side)


THAT is creativity to you ?? seriously ??



it worked great cause they had good offensive numbers, unlike the Habs.

Did u read what I've said about the skillset of DD ?
He is clearly ineffective but he is still creative, he always was but that is beside the point, I dont care lets say he is not creative. Which player beside Galchenyuk is creative to play the run and gun and still winning games?

 

[Lions999]

Patches galchenyuk ?? Missing a winger with talent that get 25 goals.
?? Eller Gallagher Missing a big winger that can get 20 goals
?? Pleks Weise need a defensive winger to become a great 3rd line.
Prust DLR ?? Missing a guy that skate and crunch people into boards.

If we can add those four type of players we will have a pretty good forward group.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Did u read what I've said about the skillset of DD ?
He is clearly ineffective but he is still creative, he always was but that is beside the point, I dont care lets say he is not creative. Which player beside Galchenyuk is creative to play the run and gun and still winning games?

how about just not playing dumb and chase ?

 

[Halakitlikethat]

Good defensively below average offensively

 

[Capitaine Subban*]

how about just not playing dumb and chase ?

U cant name any beside Galchenyuk, thats why we utilize that strategy too often.
We dont have a top 6 that can keep the puck at their blue line and MT insist that we dump it if it's not a safe entry.

Try sometime to anwer simple question instead of asking new ones.

 

[Bobs your uncle]

Regardless of their size, the group as a whole plays small.

 

[ECWHSWI]

U cant name any beside Galchenyuk, thats why we utilize that strategy too often.
We dont have a top 6 that can keep the puck at their blue line and MT insist that we dump it if it's not a safe entry.

Try sometime to anwer simple question instead of asking new ones.

so, to our apparent lack of skills and what not, our below average scoring ability, to MT the solution is to give the puck away ???

look guys, I know you have a hard time scoring so, whenever you cross the blue line, I'd like you to give the puck to the opposing defender.

 

[pepperMonkey]

- makes the same play along the board (stop and wait for a linemate to enter the zone) all the time

Well, works better than dumping the puck in and losing it to the op

 

[Capitaine Subban*]

so, to our apparent lack of skills and what not, our below average scoring ability, to MT the solution is to give the puck away ???

look guys, I know you have a hard time scoring so, whenever you cross the blue line, I'd like you to give the puck to the opposing defender.

Well, I'll take this as u agree that we dont have creative forward other than Galchenyuk to enter the zone and create risky skill plays.

I understand your frustation with MT insisting that we should play safe too often when entering the zone but he is not crazy to saying it with the team he has so far.

Maybe next year Galchenyuk will improve alot, play center dominate and do what he want despite what MT says. Malkin & Crosby never dump the puck when they have some space to make a better plays even with MT philosophy. Studs,most of the time, do whatever they wants offensively because it works because they are good.

 

[Rapala]

Well, I'll take this as u agree that we dont have creative forward other than Galchenyuk to enter the zone and create risky skill plays.

I understand your frustation with MT insisting that we should play safe too often when entering the zone but he is not crazy to saying it with the team he has so far.

Maybe next year Galchenyuk will improve alot, play center dominate and do what he want despite what MT says. Malkin & Crosby never dump the puck when they have some space to make a better plays even with MT philosophy. Studs,most of the time, do whatever they wants offensively because it works because they are good.

The forward who can consistently enter the zone with the puck on his stick is actually Eller.
It isn't even close. We know how MT loves him...