Speculation: Ottawa Senators without Erik Karlsson - are we better or worse without McDavid?

[Cloned]

Sens have lost 5 straight without Karlsson (plus some other injuries), sliding from a comfortable position to battling it out for a potential wild card spot.

Is this a glimpse of what life would be like without sophomore (plus) edition McDavid?

Or would we be better than the Sens?

(I'm not going to use last year as an example because the team wasn't good even with McDavid.)

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[Jimmi McJenkins]

Sens have lost 5 straight without Karlsson (plus some other injuries), sliding from a comfortable position to battling it out for a potential wild card spot.

Is this a glimpse of what life would be like without sophomore (plus) edition McDavid?

Or would we be better than the Sens?

(I'm not going to use last year as an example because the team wasn't good even with McDavid.)

I feel like the Oilers would be closer to .500, because the rest of the team, defense and goaltending are still intact. They would lose more games on the whole, though, because McDavid is such a game breaker.

 

[Zguy370]

Good analogy; the best DMan in the world and the best forward in the world

 

[nightfighter]

If the rest of the lineup struggles to score like they do currently, I think you'll see the team lose a lot more games. Right now the team has confidence that they can come back even if they are down a couple of goals. Without mcdavid do they still have that ability?

 

[oXo Cube]

I won't deny that this is a concern of mine. A lot of our underlying numbers are pretty scary when 97 is sitting on the bench.

For now though, I'm choosing to pretend that that's not real and just enjoying the ride. Revisit in June.

 

[0ilerman]

They also lost Methot and Ceci for parts or all of the skid. Their top 3 d-men out of the lineup.
If we lost just Mcd and Drai, forget a third player, I imagine we'd lose several (more than 5) in a row

 

[Cloned]

They also lost Methot and Ceci for parts or all of the skid. Their top 3 d-men out of the lineup.
If we lost just Mcd and Drai, forget a third player, I imagine we'd lose several (more than 5) in a row

I think they were fine without Methot (probably more or less the equivalent of Maroon).

Ceci is probably like losing Nurse (which did happen this year).

Karlsson was obviously the big blow.

 

[Laineux]

The boost in possession numbers and advanced stats when McDavid is on ice is pretty unreal. Without McDavid it's a better team than last year, but not by a whole lot.

 

[Niet]

Imagine Karlsson and McDavid playing together. Oh jesus.

 

[joestevens29]

I think they were fine without Methot (probably more or less the equivalent of Maroon).

Ceci is probably like losing Nurse (which did happen this year).

Karlsson was obviously the big blow.

Karlsson was a the biggest blow, but they all lost 2 more or their top 4. Maybe they don't win that many more, but they probably don't lose 5.

 

[PinSeeker]

If the rest of the lineup struggles to score like they do currently, I think you'll see the team lose a lot more games. Right now the team has confidence that they can come back even if they are down a couple of goals. Without mcdavid do they still have that ability?

We would struggle no doubt, but as a group, our secondary scoring (the next five scorers goal totals AFTER each teams top 3) is better than SJ, NSH, Ana, and Calgary.

 

[Diamondillium]

Why do we have to speculate? We saw it last season. It wasn't very pretty.

But that's the way she goes. Most teams that lose their best player apart from the very best struggle. Let's hope he doesn't get injured cheer for the team to be good with him.

Once we sustain success more with him, the players will have the winning attitude to be better prepared to survive without him.

 

[joestevens29]

Why do we have to speculate? We saw it last season. It wasn't very pretty.

But that's the way she goes. Most teams that lose their best player apart from the very best struggle. Let's hope he doesn't get injured cheer for the team to be good with him.

Once we sustain success more with him, the players will have the winning attitude to be better prepared to survive without him.

Last year we didn't have a competent defense though.

By no means am I suggesting we wouldn't hurt, but it wouldn't be like last year.

 

[McShogun99]

Ottawa has no one to cover for Karlsson. In the short term we still have Draisaitl and Nuge

 

[bone]

Karlsson was a the biggest blow, but they all lost 2 more or their top 4. Maybe they don't win that many more, but they probably don't lose 5.

Yeah, using the offense vs. defense analogy, I'd liken it to the Oilers losing McDavid and possibly Eberle and RNH (two more top two line players).

It would be hard to score enough goals with that out. Would need to fluke out some 1-0 or 2-1 victories. However, a goalie and average defense might get you a couple of those.

Unfortunately for Ottawa they lost half of their blueline including their top offensive player (by 11 points). Defense that played 70 minutes of the 120 available defensive minutes per games. Much harder to rebound from that. Basically, their top pair as a result was Phaneuf/Wideman, and second pair is Borowiecki and the choice of players who have played 50 or less NHL games (or Jokipakka). Then you still have to find a third pair.

 

[ElysiumAB]

Sens have lost 5 straight without Karlsson (plus some other injuries), sliding from a comfortable position to battling it out for a potential wild card spot.

Is this a glimpse of what life would be like without sophomore (plus) edition McDavid?

Or would we be better than the Sens?

(I'm not going to use last year as an example because the team wasn't good even with McDavid.)

Karlsson was back last night, so I believe they only had 4 straight losses without him.

Without McDavid, Edmonton is a bottom third team and no where near the playoff bubble.

 

[joestevens29]

Ottawa has no one to cover for Karlsson. In the short term we still have Draisaitl and Nuge

The other thing mentioned yesterday on Gregor's show is that with karlsson in the lineup Phaneuf looks a lot better.

 

[dss97]

Didn't the Sens still do alright a few years ago when Cooke cut Karlsson's Achilles?

 

[Aceboogie]

Its a tricky quesiton. Sometimes teams do just as good if not better without top players. It causes the other players to people get it together and come together to continue winning. For example- Calgary lost Gio in 2014 last half the year- instead of crumbling they went on to have a better record and make playoffs. Oilers had a better record without McDavid last year as well, although not saying much

Losing McDavid would suuuuuck. But it might cause RNH/Eberle/Lucic to wake p and go beast mode and mitigate some of that loss. Plus Maybe Puljujarvi gets the call up and performs great ala LD last year

Who knows. I dont think wed go under .500 but wed forsure not be as good

 

[bone]

Its a tricky quesiton. Sometimes teams do just as good if not better without top players. It causes the other players to people get it together and come together to continue winning. For example- Calgary lost Gio in 2014 last half the year- instead of crumbling they went on to have a better record and make playoffs. Oilers had a better record without McDavid last year as well, although not saying much

Losing McDavid would suuuuuck. But it might cause RNH/Eberle/Lucic to wake p and go beast mode and mitigate some of that loss. Plus Maybe Puljujarvi gets the call up and performs great ala LD last year

Who knows. I dont think wed go under .500 but wed forsure not be as good

That's the fortunate part. Losing an offensive player, you can try to make it up by committee as there is essentially 12 guys to pick up the slack of one, whereas defense you have to make it up with 6 players.

 

[McShogun99]

The other thing mentioned yesterday on Gregor's show is that with karlsson in the lineup Phaneuf looks a lot better.

The same could be said of Maroon and Draisaitl with Mcdavid in the lineup. If you take away Mcdavid then those two will probably see a decrease in ppoints while RNH and Eberle could see an increase in points, especially RNH since he will be moved to the 1st PP unit.

 

[Senor Catface]

We would still have Drai has a our first line center, but we would see a significant drop.

 

[Aceboogie]

That's the fortunate part. Losing an offensive player, you can try to make it up by committee as there is essentially 12 guys to pick up the slack of one, whereas defense you have to make it up with 6 players.

Agreed. And even with missing a forward you could play a more shutdown game. Different ways to adjust. People act like the team will act and play the same now just minus Mcdavid. Coaches will change systems and players will step up

 

[Mr Positive]

It's hard to say without seeing it.

One thing is for sure, and that's that the team is so much better than it was a couple years ago, even if we would subtract McDavid from that. Our D is scoring points now, and they are a solid and responsible group. We have a good set of goalies now. We have a lot of offensive talent, and some slumping players would probably step up in McDavid's absence if it came to it. Coaching would also adjust.

We'd be worse no doubt, but I don't think we would collapse. It might take a few games to get our bearings though.

I'm reminded of the Canucks in their prime a few years ago. They lost both Sedins during the season for a long time one year, but the team responded big time and didn't even lose much ground. The same could happen here.

 

[bone]

It's hard to say without seeing it.

One thing is for sure, and that's that the team is so much better than it was a couple years ago, even if we would subtract McDavid from that. Our D is scoring points now, and they are a solid and responsible group. We have a good set of goalies now. We have a lot of offensive talent, and some slumping players would probably step up in McDavid's absence if it came to it. Coaching would also adjust.

We'd be worse no doubt, but I don't think we would collapse. It might take a few games to get our bearings though.

I'm reminded of the Canucks in their prime a few years ago. They lost both Sedins during the season for a long time one year, but the team responded big time and didn't even lose much ground. The same could happen here.

I think psychologically if a team knows they can contend when the injured player(s) comes back, it's easier to bear down and gut out some wins to keep them in the hunt, especially for shorter term injuries.

The last few years in Edmonton, though, they didn't have the fortitude to feel that way and bear down. That said, even last year, they were tied for 3rd in the Pacific 6 weeks after McDavid got injured, before the wheels completely fell off.