OT: Possibility that NBA Sacramento Kings could move to Las Vegas

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by LadyStanley, Jan 10, 2011.

View Users: View Users
  1. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    74,964
    Likes Received:
    2,894
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Sin City
    http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-maloof-family-no-longer-loyal-01102011,0,1429172.story


    If the NBA team does move, there is the possibility that SVSE might invest in a modest arena near Sacramento with the possibility of relocating their AHL franchise there. (Just my speculation.) IF other NHL teams consider moving their franchises closer to California, to make it a somewhat western migration. The closest AHL franchises from California are in BC, Texas and Oklahoma.

    There are five more years on the lease for the AHL Sharks in the DCU center in Worcester, so the timing could be advantageous.
     
  2. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    61,697
    Likes Received:
    35,649
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Location:
    The Triangle
    I know next-to-nothing about Sacramento. Any NHL potential there?
     
  3. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    74,964
    Likes Received:
    2,894
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Sin City
    2.5 hours from SJ and there are some diehard Sharks fans there.

    30 minutes from Stockton, home of ECHL team.

    AHL support, I can see.

    Not really sure there's enough corporate and fan support for a NHL team (especially after 20 years of being Sharks territory).
     
  4. garnetpalmetto

    garnetpalmetto Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Messages:
    12,242
    Likes Received:
    7,575
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    Not sure - it's about 125 miles from Sacramento to San Jose. The city itself has only had one hockey team in its history and that only lasted a single season (1975-1976). You've also got Stockton about 50 miles to the south. While an ECHL team, the Thunder regularly draw better than many AHL teams (thus far their attendance this season would put them in the top 5 of the AHL), so clearly there's demand in the area. Still, I think this would be more an AHL market than an NHL market, like LadyStanley pointed out. Economically your top employers are the State of California, Sacramento County, UC Davis Health System, Kaiser Permanente (a managed care consortium headquartered in Oakland), and Sutter Health. Not sure there'd be enough corporate support for an NHL team.
     
  5. CHRDANHUTCH

    CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Messages:
    22,074
    Likes Received:
    709
    Trophy Points:
    214
    Location:
    Auburn, Maine

    LS:

    I seriously doubt the city of Worcester will let SVSE WALK OUT OF the DCU Center for anything other than Sacramento, but staying in Worcester.... a la St. Louis to Peoria

    THERE IS no interest or indication that Anaheim is leaving Syracuse nor LA leaves Manchester despite the Sharks and Kings having Ontario and Stockton under agreement or ownership (Ontario);

    Manchester is locked until 2014 or later lease wise...
     
  6. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    74,964
    Likes Received:
    2,894
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Sin City
    SVSE/Sharks lease with DCU isn't up until 2014. So nothing is happening until then. They honor their obligations.

    I'm thinking 2014-15 would be the earliest this might happen.

    (Fresno, Long Beach and San Diego no longer have their ECHL teams. The last really needs a new arena, but the existing ones previously hosting ECHL franchises in the first two cities, could be suitable for an AHL team.)
     
  7. Evil Doctor

    Evil Doctor Cryin' Hank crying

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,400
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Occupation:
    Actor
    Location:
    Cambridge, ON
    Funny, with this and the rumor of the N.O. Hornets moving, it seems like the NBA doesn't have the same concerns about relocation hurting their image like a certain on-topic professional league we all know and have strong emotions about....
     
  8. CHRDANHUTCH

    CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Messages:
    22,074
    Likes Received:
    709
    Trophy Points:
    214
    Location:
    Auburn, Maine
    still highly doubtful depending how stable Stockton & Ontario are locked into SVSE/AEG since the abrupt Fresno demise, I don't see Seiland abandoning the Monsters franchise that replaced the Falcons nor do I see Long Beach or San Diego coming back after the Anaheim tryout w/ Bakersfield.... unless there is some issue between SVSE & Worcester I'm not seeing which is the reason that SVSE selected Worcester even though Anaheim's not in the Northeast as they were from '05-07.

    Naming rights expire next month, btw and there's a baseball stadium left unfinished but due to Raley Field (River Cats); it was never completed; this is the 2nd building w/ the same title since 1985 (current arena was opened in 1988 @ 40 M).

    Power Balance expected to assume title rights in Sacramento once the Kings season ends-www.sacbee.com
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2011
  9. Pinkfloyd

    Pinkfloyd Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    53,629
    Likes Received:
    1,520
    Trophy Points:
    203
    Occupation:
    Government Employee
    Location:
    Roseville
    If the Kings move to Las Vegas, there is definite NHL potential in Sacramento but it requires one thing from a potential owner. A new arena. Arco is not meant for hockey.

    There are enough people to support the franchise and enough corporate support to make it viable. However, it takes a management group that will compete at least regularly in order to sell to the fans and be a successful franchise monetarily.

    Sacramento actually has shown a lot more faith in a pro franchise than most cities with the Kings. The team got to the playoffs its first year, sucked for eight straight years, then competed for the playoffs for four years before ascending into their good years. Their good years yielded nothing but heartache and chokes. Now they've reverted back to their suck days with nothing to show for it. And they've been there for five years now.

    Now during those initial eight years of suck, the team did very well at the gate and had a very good fan base. They can definitely get those fans to a hockey game. The Sharks have played preseason games at Arco before and seen good turnouts. If there isn't an NBA team there, they will succeed if management is competent enough to keep the team competitive and not let it cellar dwell for extended periods of time.

    However, the arena issue is a big one and is the issue that keeps many cities from housing an NHL team. Seattle and Portland would both be more ideal locations for NHL teams if the arenas were there.

    Sacramento would be a good city for an NHL team but they don't have what is needed for one to come here.
     
  10. StevenintheATL

    StevenintheATL Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Messages:
    2,747
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Coffee Route Sales
    Location:
    The ATL!
    Here's some insight into the reported financial issues the Palms is facing:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...o-take-controlling-stake-in-palms-casino.html

    Side note. TPG Capital is one of the owners of Hamlet Holdings, LLC (along with the Apollo Group), which owns Caesars Entertainment (Previously Harrah's Entertainment), which includes Caesars Palace and is the company that the article mentions as reportedly being interested in the Kings.

    One think to note is that Gary Loveman, the Chairman and CEO of Caesars Entertainment, has a minority stake in the Boston Celtics.

    Caesars Entertainment has a role in one of the proposed arenas for Las Vegas. They've shelved their planned arena behind Bally's (they were going to team up wit AEG in this project) and instead will be donating land behind the Imperial Palace (which was land they acquired earlier in the decade as part of a now-shelved expansion of Harrah's and the Flamingo as well some residential and condo towers) to a group that is looking to build an arena on that part of the Strip. Buying the Kings and moving them to Las Vegas actually make sense if the arena project they're working on gets built (The arena developers are trying to get a special tax district set up for the area around the Strip in order to help fund the arena and they have to go through the State Legislature for this, who can either approve it, or put it up for a state-wide referendum in 2012.).

    I do not think there will be any issues with Caesars Entertainment buying into the Kings since the Maloofs are currently in the gaming industry. Gary Loveman may have to either divest himself of his stake in the Celtics or put it in a blind trust until he is no longer involved with the company. In addition, the Mohegan Sun in Connecticut owns the WNBA Connecticut Sun and they play at the arena that is on the casino property. For a time, the Palms did not offer betting on NBA games in their sportsbook and now offer bets on NBA games not involving the Kings. In addition, the sportsbooks at Caesars Entertainment properties (Harrah's, Caesars Palace, Imperial Palace, Flamingo, Bally's, Paris, Planet Hollywood, The Rio, & Bill's) do not offer betting on NBA games involving the Celtics.

    What's interesting is that the investors behind one of the arena proposals (one that is essentially dead because they could not get some key approvals from the County Commission), the Silver State Arena (proposed for the former Wet-N-Wild site adjacent to the Sahara Hotel), claimed last May that they had an deal in place to purchase an NBA team if their arena project was approved.

    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jul/14/nba-team-under-contract-if-las-vegas-builds-arena/
     
  11. Jesus Christ Horburn

    Jesus Christ Horburn Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2008
    Messages:
    13,942
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Kings are my favorite team so I really don't want to see them move.

    I just can't see how any major league sports team could survive in LV in the long term.
     
  12. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    61,697
    Likes Received:
    35,649
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Location:
    The Triangle
    From the sounds if things it would be a borderline NHL market without an arena. Probably not gonna happen.

    So, do the Sharks become more aggressive about drawing fans from there? If the city itself is 125 miles away, surely there are suburbs within a ~90 minute radius. Are they affluent? Is it an easy trip on game days? Worth opening a team store there?
     
  13. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    16,253
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    126
    The one area that they would become more aggressive in is broadcast coverage. Last year Comcast revamped their RSN lineup and the Sharks (and A's) were moved from CSN Bay Area (home of the Giants and Warriors) to CSN California which also covers Sacto and carries Kings games. If the Kings left, CSN would be left with a significant programming hole (and devaluation of subscriber fees) and would likely push/promote the Sharks more in Sacto.

    It's unlikely that there would be much of an impact on Sharks attendance. Those areas that the Kings draw from are beyond where the Sharks draw much attendance and would require going through some of the worst commute congestion in the Bay Area. The Sharks East Bay attendance comes from Southern Alameda County and the 880 corridor as far as Oakland. Very few fans come from Contra Costa County or beyond.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2011
  14. Free Edler

    Free Edler Enjoy retirement, boys.

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,823
    Likes Received:
    4,765
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    ad copywriter
    Location:
    Surrey, BC
    It would be an interesting market test for the NBA to go to Las Vegas, and not entirely surprising since the Maloofs have so much invested in the town and it's been suggested for years that a team may end up there, though I suspect some players - or any young people with a lot of money - would get into a lot of trouble very quickly.
     
  15. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    74,964
    Likes Received:
    2,894
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Sin City
    FWIW, there is a non-road option for Sacramento fans coming to Sharks games: Amtrak. They can take the Capitol Corridor down and the Coast Starlight back (arriving home within 3 hours).
     
  16. obsenssive*

    obsenssive* Guest

    in 50 years las vegas will be a ghost town.

    therefore its not viable.
     
  17. nomorekids

    nomorekids The original, baby

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2003
    Messages:
    33,375
    Likes Received:
    103
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    Part of the reason, one of many actually, that the NBA is an even bigger niche league than the NHL.
     
  18. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    61,697
    Likes Received:
    35,649
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Location:
    The Triangle
    It's a niche league, but one that doesn't have to worry about the relevance of its sport when it goes into a new town. For the most part, basketball fans =/= NBA fans.
     
  19. Whileee

    Whileee Registered User

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    33,678
    Likes Received:
    6,686
    Trophy Points:
    156
    I have been thinking the same thing. I wonder if part of the issue is that the NHL wants to keep any relocation minimized, lest it encourage a wider trend of owners seeking greener pastures. If there was security that only one or two teams were struggling, then perhaps they wouldn't be so sensitive.

    The other issue that this story brings up is that quite often the impetus to sell is related to the personal finances of the owner. If they are drowning in red ink generally, then the sale of a sports team might be seen as a way of generating money to deal with debt obligations or inject capital into other interests. This can work out fine for a professional league if there is an abundance of investors interested in owning franchises, regardless of the location. But the NHL has shown that it is not easy to stir up investors in a number of locations. If the owners there are desperate to sell and can't find a good offer in situ, then the only viable option for them is selling for relocation. So I think that it is not just the current financial outlook or attendance that determines the likelihood of a sale or relocation, but also the financial status of the current owners and the availability of potential owners for that market. For example, it hasn't actually been easy to get new owners / investors for Dallas, Phoenix or Atlanta, and perhaps others.
     
  20. Melrose Munch

    Melrose Munch Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    21,005
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    154
    http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlesports/archives/235403.asp?from=blog_last3
     
  21. danishh

    danishh Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    35,711
    Likes Received:
    1,701
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Location:
    YOW
  22. Moses Doughty

    Moses Doughty Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    8,530
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Id have to think the fans in OC would stop going to Staples to go to Honda Center, I just dont see the Lakers or Clippers not demanding otherwise. Bad for their business
     
  23. Too small and everyone is fans of the SF teams anyway
     
  24. Pinkfloyd

    Pinkfloyd Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Messages:
    53,629
    Likes Received:
    1,520
    Trophy Points:
    203
    Occupation:
    Government Employee
    Location:
    Roseville
    2.5 mil metro population is not too small for a professional sports franchise. Liking SF teams is irrelevant anyway because the people here liked the Warriors before the Kings came to town and they switched. They'd switch to a hockey team regardless of the Sharks popularity if it became their team.
     
  25. BigT2002

    BigT2002 Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,759
    Likes Received:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    142
    Location:
    some other continent
    I'd think they would want to move Minnesota or something first?
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"