Organizational Philosophy Issues

Discussion in 'New York Islanders' started by islesdave, Nov 20, 2013.

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  1. islesdave

    islesdave Registered User

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    The team's maddeningly inconsistent play I believe stems from Wang's philosophy on how to run the organization. He's a shrewd businessman, I'm not saying he's stupid, but until he sells the team or allows the hockey people to make the hockey decisions we are doomed for mediocrity. There were 2 glaring issues on the roster that needed to be addressed before the start of the season - bona fide NHL defense and goaltending.

    Goalie: They brought back Nabby, who was incredibly hot down the stretch, but looked to be old and slow during the playoffs. Poulin, while young, has been maddeningly inconsistent in the AHL in seasons past, he'd make the great athletic save and let in the real softies. Bryzgalov would not have been a great fit, the only time he really excelled was in Phoenix, playing behind a defensive system. Emery's best days were behind him as well, not to mention the medical risk. What I would have done/still do: Anaheim has 4 NHL quality goalies right now (Jonas Hiller, pending UFA, Viktor Fasth, resigned last year, Frederik Andersen (buried in AHL, might be best of all), and John Gibson, the USA WJC winner). Hiller is a pending UFA, probably could be had for a couple of picks or a prospect and a pick.

    Defense: Anyone notice how mightily we struggle against the bigger teams in the league? LA manhandled us in the third, Toronto pushed us around like a bunch of teenagers. The Flyers do as well. Let's send the 6-4 Reinhart back to juniors rather than give him a few games to see if he really is ready like he looked in the preseason. Hamonic needs a real top end partner. AMac should be a 2nd pairing guy if not 3rd, not to mention he has regressed. Carkner, for all he provides in terms of toughness, is too slow. Lately our best defenseman has been Thomas Hickey, but he's small. Lubo is a big loss. Donovan shows flashes, as does Ness. Ron Hainsey went to Carolina as a UFA on a $2M deal. Scuderi would have been a great fit as well, and a LI native.

    All teams bring in pieces from the outside, and it's required to take the next step in terms of becoming a perennial playoff team. Until the philosophy changes of basically just promoting kids and almost guaranteeing them a spot, we are doomed to stay mediocre. A professional sports team is not a regular corporation. Totally promoting from within does not work. If Donovan beat out a veteran who was brought in, great. They needed to build off the enthusiasm from the 6 games in the playoffs last year, not sit idle.
     
  2. redbull

    redbull tomorrow is a new day

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    you may have put more thought to your post than the Isles organization put on the team after the Regin, Bouchard signings.

    There's no "philosophy" that's ever been communicated or can be derived based on observations (moves and non-moves)

    Snow's made some comments about "building from within, through the draft" as though that's the strategy. Yet, it's been done poorly and kinda backwards.

    They added a lot of forwards (who tend to develop faster than dmen) in 2008-11 and then started drafting dmen (almost exclusively) after that, yet they take much longer to develop.

    On top of that, goaltending has been ignored, except the DP buyout and drafting of Koskinen, Nilsson pretty high in 2009.

    Trading Nino for Clutterbuck and Moulson for Vanek make SOME sense, if you plan to win now, but how's it possible to ignore the biggest hole while tweaking what's not broken?

    Even the player development part is royally broken. Is anyone getting better on this roster? Are they put in positions to succeed? or is Capuano just using PMB, Regin to fill gaps, not unlike Reasoner/Pandolfo and Hilbert/Sim/Park from years prior?

    Seems random and disastrous
     
  3. lacunacoil777

    lacunacoil777 Registered User

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    Wrong. Isles have no problem adding veterans every off season. Only problem is we don't want to pay anyone more then a million a year. Looks like Wilpons have been watching Wangs methods as they get blown away on a one year deal for 2.5 million for Hawkins HAHa blown away....2.5 million in baseball is like 800k in hockey salary.
     
  4. Bones45

    Bones45 Prince is a Redneck

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    Coaching, defense and goaltending are all horrible.

    No point in fixing any one item until you can fix all three. Welcome to the world of horrible Islanders hockey.

    Pass the bong.
     
  5. crashthenet

    crashthenet Registered User

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    The philosophy is not to spend.

    I'm convinced the Vanek trade cost us more due to buffalo paying partial salary.
     
  6. JT4President

    JT4President Registered User

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    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
     
  7. lacunacoil777

    lacunacoil777 Registered User

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    Well if you follow pro sports enough that's a given. If isles say "we can't afford to pay camel please subsidize our payroll with your fans ticket money" then you know buffalo said "we want the extra pick for our money since you run your team so poorly for a decade you ruined your fan base"
     
  8. A Pointed Stick

    A Pointed Stick No Idea About The Future

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    The art of cheap, chapter 1
    - man with cheapest roster save the most money.
    - better hole in defense than hole in wallet.
    - fans like dogs. Kick dog, still comes back.
    - fans better than dogs. You feed dog, he poop on lawn. You starve fan, he pay you money.

    That's the philosophy.

    I should make that a thread. :D
     
  9. MDIsles

    MDIsles EFF Snow!

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    <conversation between me and Isles tix rep this summer>

    Rep: Hello xxxxx!!! We made the playoffs last season, come aboard this cruiseship and pay me $$$$$.

    Me: This cruiseship sounds luxurious. I will send you the $$$$ to come aboard.

    Rep: Thank you xxxxx!!! <hangs up> <snickers and crackles>

    <Titanic Sinks> <Patrons i.e. Fans parish>

    Moral of story: The Isles organization is the Titanic and it has sunk to the depths of the Ocean and we as fans foolishly stay loyal.:rant::shakehead:amazed::cry:
     
  10. beach

    beach Registered User

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    Exactly this.
     
  11. tag0519

    tag0519 Registered User

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    The OP has some great points - especially about getting rid of Wang :handclap:

    But remember the best defensemen aren't always big (see Nicklaus Lindstrom)
     
  12. Sparksrus3

    Sparksrus3 " Complete Autonomy from A to Z" Love Ya Lou.

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    Wang only wants defensemen that he can look in the eye
     
  13. Chapin Landvogt

    Chapin Landvogt Registered User

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    Arguably Nelson has been recently.
     
  14. redbull

    redbull tomorrow is a new day

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    I think the Islanders have enough talent, especially up front, that they can carry both Strome and Nelson and have them in positions to succeed. Not like Pandolfo-Reasoner-Niederreiter and not like Sim-Bailey-Comeau/Park

    I'm watching both MIN-OTT and PIT-WASH, Nino's looking pretty good. He's bounced around that lineup, from the top line with Koivu-Parise, but most of the time with Granlund-Pominville. Tonight he's with Cooke and Brodziak.

    That's setting him up for success. And Nino is playing well, more of a complementary role than a leading role but he's still young.

    I don't see why Strome and Nelson can't be treated the same way.

    Vanek - Tavares - Nelson
    Bailey - Strome - Okposo
    Grabner - Nielsen - Clutterbuck
    Martin - Cizikas - McDonald
    Boulton (don't think we need Regin or Bouchard)

    But then again, the defense is so bad, I'm not even sure how much it will help in the win column. The holes on defense, ESPECIALLY without Visnovsky and Strait, and without a vet like Streit, are simply ENORMOUS.

    Add MacDonald's declining play (the last two years he's been worse than the prior two) and increasing minutes/responsibility and it's a disaster - even if Patrick Roy was in goal.

    Maybe the Leafs should make a play for Jake Gardiner or James Reimer or both. I don't know. Some move is required or else it's waiting for Reinhart and Pulock and praying they'll be ready to play an important role next season.

    Maybe those two, plus what Snow gets for Vanek, MacDonald, Bouchard, Regin, Nabokov on sell-off-deadline-day will help in 2014-15. I know it's too soon for that kinda talk, especially in this horrid conference - but I'm just not liking what I'm seeing on the ice, behind the bench, etc.
     
  15. BigWorm

    BigWorm Registered User

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    Good post but what do you think of these lines.

    Nelson-JT-KO
    Vanek-Neilsen-Bailey
    Grabner-Strome-Cmac
    Martin-CC-Cal

    Feel free to swap Nelson with Vanek.

    Personally I like the balance.
     
  16. PK Cronin

    PK Cronin Bailey Fan Club Prez

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    I think to fix the team now, and keep it largely intact for the future, a few things need to happen.

    Capuano needs to change the system the Islanders use. He likes to use that fast tempo game with long stretch passes from the defense. The problem is that this style leaves you very weak if those stretch passes don't work, and we don't have a good enough defense/goalie in order to cover for the mistakes. It's the reason why AMac is getting his pass picked off on the wall 50% of the time and leads to opposition chances.

    If the team is really as fast as people claim, I don't understand why we don't use a system to capitalize on the opponents mistakes and using our speed then. This team is capable of scoring on the rush much more than with their ability to posses the puck in the offensive zone (with the current lines anyway). Our forecheck leaves the neutral zone pretty wide open for the opponent and allows them to gain the zone easily. Putting more pressure on our defense and goalie, which again, aren't good.

    Our faceoffs are also terrible and a large cause for concern. How many draws can you lose and be able to win? It needs to be addressed in some way, whether it's allowing KO, Bailey, or Nelson to take more draws or bringing in someone to teach them how to win consistently.

    Last are the lines. There are many on this board that are convinced that our roster is awful, but I generally don't believe that when we're talking about the forwards. Anyone playing on the top line will produce with JT, so I'm not worried about that line. Our 4th line is also very good at what they do when it's not being used in that stupid after goal situation. That leaves us with question marks in the middle. Why has Bailey's production dropped off? Same with Nielsen and Grabner, etc. There are enough good players on this roster to make at least one of those two lines effective. And that's all the team really needs in order to win these games. We can deal with a horrible 3rd line if the other 3 are doing their job and we change the system Capuano uses to help out the defense.

    Here is a list of viable line combos with a healthy lineup:

    Nelson-JT-KO
    Vanek-Neilsen-Bailey
    Grabner-Regin-Cmac/PMB
    Martin-CC-Cal

    Vanek-JT-KO
    Grabner-Neilsen-Bailey
    Nelson-Regin-Cmac/PMB
    Martin-CC-Cal

    Vanek-JT-KO
    Nelson-Neilsen-Bailey
    Grabner-Regin-Cmac/PMB
    Martin-CC-Cal

    Vanek-JT-Bailey
    Nelson-Neilsen-KO
    Grabner-Regin-Cmac/PMB
    Martin-CC-Cal

    Nelson-JT-Bailey
    Vanek-Neilsen-KO
    Grabner-Regin-Cmac/PMB
    Martin-CC-Cal

    Grabner-JT-Bailey
    Vanek-Neilsen-KO
    Nelson-Regin-Cmac/PMB
    Martin-CC-Cal


    I mean, there are really so many options and we constantly see that 2nd and 3rd line being put in situations where they don't work because of the pairings of players. Why isn't Bailey on the PP instead of PMB or KO? He's a better passer and better at puck possession than both when he has open space like that. Why isn't Donovan being used on the PP? He's got a lot of escape-ability with the puck and he's supposed to produce from that spot.

    It's really just head scratching.
     
  17. Janson

    Janson fireSNOW

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    Regin and Bouchard are integral parts to get this team .... to the cap floor. Snow just like his owner has no clue.
     
  18. PK Cronin

    PK Cronin Bailey Fan Club Prez

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    If Wangs tells Snow he can't spend, how does that make Snow clueless? :help:
     
  19. JohnTonelliRises

    JohnTonelliRises Tonelli Approves↓

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    I am convinced that Snow is on a very short leash and just ostensibly is there to take the flak. We all know who the real culprit is (Wang).

    Also, please don't defend Capuano, he is way past the point of redemption. He's trash.

    The team needs a new coach who knows what the definition of accountability is and the team needs at least three competent and developed D-men on the blue line.

    Simple fix with little to no hope, unfortunately.
     
  20. Janson

    Janson fireSNOW

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    He doesn't spend the money he has correctly therefore clueless. Reasoner, Rolston, Bouchard:help:? Then doesn't pony up for players that deserve it PAP, Konopka, Ullstrom come immediatley to mind. If you are letting them go to make organizational room for our draft players fine, but really bouchard?
     
  21. The Underboss

    The Underboss Administrator

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    See that's where people cloud the argument. You're right. Snow has to work within a budget and forget Wang pulls the purse strings. Listen there is blame to go around here for Snow and Wang, but you're asking Snow to ice a high quality caliber team using pretty much basement dollars.

    Does anyone think Snow was going to go out and spend 4-6 million on a goalie? Or Defenseman? Did you see the asking price this summer? Snow's a smart guy if I had to bet. Give him an owner who gives him some financial freedom, and its my guess the guy shines. Isles country is asking Snow who is working with a turd to polish it into a diamond. It sucks and aggravating, but this is the hand we have to deal with. It is my hope that Brooklyn changes everything and fast. Yormark will not tolerate a loser in Brooklyn and hopefully pressures Wang to open the wallet or sell.
     
  22. JohnTonelliRises

    JohnTonelliRises Tonelli Approves↓

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    He's really hindering the team at this point (Wang), we are only a select few years away from moving to Brooklyn and we don't even have a presentable on ice showing yet. Embarrassing.

    Little nervous to watch the game tomorrow, considering the Pens blanked the Caps....
     
  23. A Pointed Stick

    A Pointed Stick No Idea About The Future

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    Capuano has used a lock before. IMO best situation considering our defense would be a 2 - 3. They already use a collapse system in their end, might as well consistently go conservative in the other two as well. Instead they have been sending forwards in deep and activating the d no matter who they are which goes against what the roster would suggest to do.

    Of course when your goaltending is below average maybe none of it matters.
     
  24. MDIsles

    MDIsles EFF Snow!

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    If I had to guess, once the move to Brooklyn commences; Wang is forced to clean house or sell and a real hockey ops. is fielded. Just my two cents.

    :baghead:
     
  25. PK Cronin

    PK Cronin Bailey Fan Club Prez

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    I'd love to see a statistical breakdown of each systems implementation within one team.
     

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