One thing we can all agree on - NHL officiating needs a makeover - but how?

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
Sponsor
Sep 26, 2007
68,917
99,422
Cambridge, MA
There are 2 referees and 2 linesmen assigned to each NHL hockey game. The four-official system (or two-referee system) was first introduced in 1998-99 on a trial basis and fully implemented as of the 2000-01 NHL season. Prior to that, the NHL worked with one referee and 2 linesmen for nearly 60 years.

The problem is that 20 years ago the NHL was forced to hire many AHL and ECHL officials to cover the new rules and things went downhill.

Officiating hockey is hard at any level but the speed of the NHL game makes it that much harder.

The next generation of officials needs to be trained but by who?

This video is not a joke.



I think the NHL needs to consider an official in the press box going forward :dunno:
 
Last edited:

Hasa92

Registered User
Aug 4, 2012
1,008
533
Finland
and who programs the computer?
It doesn't matter as long as it's done by professionals, it works as intended and always makes the exact same call in the same situations.

There would still be human refs but the AI would make the decisions and measure stuff like offsides and goals with perfect accuracy.
 

MikeyMike01

U.S.S. Wang
Jul 13, 2007
14,574
10,660
Hell
It doesn't matter as long as it's done by professionals, it works as intended and always makes the exact same call in the same situations.

There would still be human refs but the AI would make the decisions and measure stuff like offsides and goals with perfect accuracy.

We are decades away from what you are describing so that’s not a great plan.
 

byrath

Registered User
Jan 28, 2008
1,260
666
St. Louis, MO
There are 2 referees and 2 linesmen assigned to each NHL hockey game. The four-official system (or two-referee system) was first introduced in 1998-99 on a trial basis and fully implemented as of the 2000-01 NHL season. Prior to that, the NHL worked with one referee and 2 linesmen for nearly 60 years.

The problem is that 20 years ago the NHL was forced to hire many AHL and ECHL officials to cover the new rules and things went downhill.

Officiating hockey is hard at any level but the speed of the NHL game makes it that much harder.

The next generation of officials need to be trained but by who?

This video is not a joke.



I think the NHL needs to consider an official in the press box going forward :dunno:


I'd have no problem with an off-ice official, generally speaking. Of course there'd be questions like how long after the fact could he make a call? Could the off-ice officials call nullify a goal? etc etc...
I still think 1 minute PPs could help the refs call a few more penalties without turning games into PP festivals.
I'm actually pretty OK with the way the regular season is called. It's some of the stuff that refs clearly see and let go in the playoffs that is rather absurd.
 

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
Sponsor
Sep 26, 2007
68,917
99,422
Cambridge, MA
50 years ago one of the greatest NHL referees (John Ashley) quit at the age of 42 because he was fed up with calls from Clarence Campbell after every playoff game and he spurned an offer from the WHA for big money because he didn't want to compromise his values and the WHA then hired Bill Friday.

Friday would return to the NHL and later became a video replay official but left after the 1999 season when Gary Bettman overruled him at 2 AM

 

TheNumber4

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
36,199
40,642
It’s not the amount of refs or the skill/training of refs that will make the difference. Apparently the best hockey refs in the world already work for the NHL.

Everyone that has complained about officiating whether it be a life long fan, player, or coach always boils down to wanting more consistency. And there’s been lots of complaints. I think the NHL has an issue if consistently and on a regular basis, professional coaches, players, and fans who’ve watched/played the game their whole lives still can’t figure out what is or isn’t going to be called.

So we need to ask how do we make calls more consistent? Logically, consistency should come from the rule book. You put the rules down on paper, and that becomes the letter of the law. That’s the ONLY way to consistency. Letting the randomly assigned game manger with random thoughts and feelings on any random night decide what is or isn’t a penalty based on game feel/temperature/situation or whatever subjective bullshit the NHL decides privately behind closed doors will NEVER lead to constancy.

There will be of course be detractors that say you can’t call it by the book or else then everything gets called. Well that’s a problem with the book then. The NHL rulebook is a grey-area subjective mess. It needs better and more in depth definition of the rules. For example, If you, as a League don’t think cross checks in front of the net protecting the paint should be called, then define it. Right now, a game manager can decide if/when he’ll call that net front cross check bury despite it not being called 90% of the time.

There will be of course more penalties initially as players need to figure out the re-defined rules, but we know from the past that players will adjust. When the league started cracking down on interference, players adjusr. When Crosby cut that dudes finger off, slashing was more commonly called and the players adjusted. When the League started taking concussions seriously, they penalized head shots more harshly, players adjusted, it is not okay in today’s game to take someone’s head off.

The other big issue is the NHLs “let them play” policy. One of the dumbest accepted norms in all of sports. Rules change when the games get the most important? So a team that has practiced, been coached up, and acquired the right players for good special teams, they just don’t get to use it when the games matter most? Sounds completely stupid to me, but sure maybe the NHL thinks PPs and PKs aren’t as exciting as 5v5 filled with uncalled infractions. I think PPs and PKs are exciting personally, and they give the accouncers/analysts more to talk about which is better for game presentation, and it also adds more drama to the game.

Many players and former players have talked in favor of just calling the game by the book. I think it’s time to try it, unless the NHL thinks constantly confused and pissed off fans is the way to grow the game.
 
Last edited:

Fenway

HF Bookie and Bruins Historian
Sponsor
Sep 26, 2007
68,917
99,422
Cambridge, MA
2 years ago the 2 top-rated officials worked Game 5 of the SCF

What Stanley Cup pundits and analysts are saying about the officiating in Game 5

Those officials were also scheduled to work Game 7 but the NHL decided to promote the Game 6 officials to work Game 7.

Keep in mind what had happened earlier in the playoffs that year in the San Jose/Vegas series. Eric Furlatt and Dan O'Halloran were told their season was over after giving San Jose a 5-minute power play.

But that created a ripple effect as NHL officials covet playoff assignments to increase income so human nature kicks in. They know that Vegas owner Bill Foley went ballistic and the NHL listened.
 

kabidjan18

Registered User
Apr 20, 2015
5,786
2,111
authockeytxreports.wordpress.com
There are some calls missed that are particularly dangerous to safety like the elbowing to the head that should be reviewed after the game and probably a fine.

As to AI, yes if there were programs to that level of specificity like in a video game, where your heroes/champions naturally can't break certain coded restraints, then yes it would work. We're not there yet, we won't be there yet by the fall.

Then there's the the "call it by the book" folks. It's always a kind of naive argument to me to be frank. There's no such thing as "calling it by the book." There really isn't. Why do we have lawyers and court cases and precedents and lawsuits in the real world? Because words are interpreted. Words don't have inherent meaning without humans proscribing characteristics to them. It's a really simple moniker for talking heads on TV to say "call it by the book." It's something easy to repeat after other people. But it's impractical to actually carry out.

I just opened up the NHL rule book to the first random rule I could find. "Abuse of officials." No person may "challenge or dispute" an official's rulings before during or after a game. Wow, funny, I think I see that like 10 times every game, some player or some coach go up to a ref and give them an earful. What constitutes disputing and what constitutes discussing? I don't know, call it by the book. "No person may...not limited to obscene, abusive, profane, gestures or comments of a personal nature to an official." Particularly with the words "not limited to" I mean what kind of communicative actions to an official are potentially any of these things? Throwing my hands in the air? Asking the ref "how could you miss that?" Words inherently require interpretation, that's why refs go to school where they study videos to get a general sense of how the law is being interpreted, and then fans see that interpretation play out on the ice. But there's no such thing as "calling it by the book." Refs call plays based on how other refs in the past have called plays. That's the use of precedent. And precedents can change when the department hands down a decision, "we have decided that this (insert video) used to be called as X now will be called as Y." But none of that is in the phrasing of the laws.

And then the natural response is, "well if the book is so vague it should just be rewritten clearer." Again, not helpful. Because this isn't a fault specific to the NHL rule book, it's a fault that every law book in every country and organization in the world grapples with. And some people will say "oh well the NBA does better", NBA fans, NFL fans complain just as much about refs as any other fans. There are two ways to try to increase the specificity of a law. One is that you add more adjectives. "Don't hit someone" becomes "don't forcefully hit someone intentionally." That seems more specific, but in reality you just added 2 new adverbs that interpreters of the law now have to use discretion on. There is some guidance by the common meanings of these terms, like if someone slips and tumbles and rolls back first into another skater, ok that's probably not intentional. But on the margins you've created more room for variability or differences in interpretation. So that doesn't actually help. The other way is to introduce parameters that are universally defined. Like "don't hit someone at X angle, Y yards from the boards, with Z pounds amount of force", and probably honestly you'd still need more parameters than that but just as an example. That is very specific, to use scientific values. And also, how are human refs going to be able to make those measurements? They're not. In video games you can write programs so that these parameters aren't violated, that is why Dota or League of Legends for example doesn't have in-game officials. But in physical sports there's really no such option. Probably the most specific you can get is "don't lift X above your shouldn't", or "don't hit Y below some area", but refs can't measure force, distance, momentum, angles, other things that computers can measure, and especially not in real time. The best they can do is what they do, which is to approximate what is going on, compared to previous interpretations by other refs. The subjectivity is inherent to the human element, in the boarding rule it literally states "there is an enormous amount of judgment involved in the application of this rule by referees." It's inescapable.

There are things that the league does need to focus on, like the elbowing in the head incident. The league is saying they're taking a strong stance on player safety, particularly with regards to concussions. I do applaud the steps they've taken. If a player is ruled to have elbowed another player in the head intentionally, they should get a penalty. Maybe they should even get a fine after the game, even if it was missed in the game. That will send a message about tolerable behaviors in the league. But when it comes to like "I think this other team's player used slightly too much force as to constitute a holding on my team's player" or "I think my team's player usage of force in holding the other team's player was just within the appropriate amount", followed by "refs you suck, you never call it by the book", it's easy to be the ones criticizing others but if you were placed in a zebra suit the reality is that you'd also make decisions that would anger one side, and other decisions that would anger the other, and by the end you'd be treated with as much derision as you treat the people in zebra suits now.
 

Hasa92

Registered User
Aug 4, 2012
1,008
533
Finland
We are decades away from what you are describing so that’s not a great plan.
It could be easily done right now for stuff like offsides & tracking the the puck if it crossed the goal line but not for penalty calls, not yet but I think even that would be doable within a decade but a professional sports league would probably not be among the first adapters, at least not NHL.
 

NHL Review

Twitter: @nhl_review
Oct 27, 2019
1,339
1,444
Couple of easy solutions
  • Alter rulebook to give less grey area to officials, where possible
  • League set clear and consistent standard on other judgement calls, that is transparent and easily accessible (ex: video explanations)
  • Yearly audit of officials and NHL Player Safety by independent firm
  • Off ice officials to assist referees about missed calls during a game in real time and during intermission. Can educate officials on what they’re missing or if certain player(s) are committing infractions. If problem does not get better, consider giving them the ability to call severe penalties ala boarding, elbowing, illegal check to head.
 

Five Alarm Fire

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jun 17, 2009
10,185
6,216
Crazy line of thinking here. Given the frequency of some infractions, and how consequential a 2 minute powerplay can be, maybe we need to rethink the punishment for a penalty? Refs get involved in game management because they don't want to influence the game too much one way or another.

To call the game fairly, what if there was a simple and quick punishment for smaller infractions, say, give the other team possession of the puck or a distanced shot at net the way soccer does it? That way, teams don't get away with smaller infractions, and it system isn't abused as you can still reward 2 minute penalties.

This is a full nuclear option, and hockey wouldn't have any semblance to the traditional game. But I do think there's something to the 2 minute penalty that causes refs to get involved in game management, and also have their mistakes magnified.
 

hockeyfan2k18

Registered User
Feb 11, 2018
1,529
1,434
People forget that this is entertainment. Do the fans want regular season officiating or playoffs officiating?

they complain about officiating in every sport. The NHL is the hardest sport to officiate.

indo agree that removing the grey area will help, but will also diminish the product greatly in the playoffs.
 

mandiblesofdoom

Registered User
May 24, 2012
2,304
1,291
NHL officials ignore infractions & "manage the game" because they don't want to spend too much of it on the power play.

All I ask is that they give more penalties to the team that commits more fouls.

And call obvious stuff, like the high-sticking on Corey Perry.
 

Hennessy

Ye Jacobites, by name
Dec 20, 2006
14,426
5,821
On my keister
People are always, ALWAYS going to complain about the officiating. Everyone involved is human and nothing is perfect.

So, do we accept the inconsistency as it is and try to enjoy the game now or do we start tweaking things and run the risk of changing the game only to still find fault with the officiating time and again?
You're always going to have missed/blown calls. It happens. But enforcing the rules on a consistent basis, game to game, whether it's the first period of an October tilt or OT game 7 of the SCF, shouldn't even be an issue. If a team doesn't respect that officials are calling the book, so be it. They can be penalized 10 times per game. Eventually they'll learn.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dukeofjive

Rand0m

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
1,272
987
Couple of easy solutions
  • Alter rulebook to give less grey area to officials, where possible
  • League set clear and consistent standard on other judgement calls, that is transparent and easily accessible (ex: video explanations)
  • Yearly audit of officials and NHL Player Safety by independent firm
  • Off ice officials to assist referees about missed calls during a game in real time and during intermission. Can educate officials on what they’re missing or if certain player(s) are committing infractions. If problem does not get better, consider giving them the ability to call severe penalties ala boarding, elbowing, illegal check to head.

I don't even think the rulebook needs that much change unless we're talking about player safety related things then that should happen regardless. This is really the main problem and has the easiest solution. If they just "to the best of their ability" call the rule book as written all season & playoffs, then realistically, the issue is mostly resolved.

The off-ice official is probably the best idea/solution. The game is really fast, the refs are on the ice for 60 minutes a game and have to skate into position constantly. They don't get to sit until the period is over. They need some help, I think an eye in the sky ref on a 3-way comm with the 2 on-ice officials is a great solution. They could instruct an on-ice official to make a call, they could also be the person responsible for all video review calls. I think they should also be involved before a non-fighting major is called/player is ejected as they would already have an alternate angle and instant video review more quickly than the on-ice officials could. This person has to be an actual ref though, maybe someone who's legs can no longer keep up with the game.
 

bobholly39

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
22,252
14,873
So the way I see it there are two categories of problems. First one isn't solvable easily at all - second one is.

1. Game management vs enforcing rules as is.

I know everyone here says "just call it as it's supposed to be". I don't disagree in theory, but NHL has always had trouble with that. By the 3rd and certainly OT refs are a lot more lax and only call super serious stuff. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? Honestly it depends. Fans would hate it even more if many super critical/important games got decided on some really 'minor' stuff that got called for penalties. I actually don't personally think game management is quite as bad as many people here seem to think it is.

Flipside though - if you call the rules exactly as is no matter what - it will lead to a ton of frustration and complaining....for a whole season, maybe 2? And players will eventually adjust how they play. If players know they will get called 100% of the time for even very minor hooking/obstruction - they will simply stop doing it altogether. But that'll take time, and the on-ice product will suffer a lot for the year or two or more it takes players to adjust, but maybe it's a necessary evil, because it would eventually lead to a much better game.

Personally - I've never minded the idea of penalties becoming a bit more scarce in OT. However, this leads to the second problem....

2. You can't miss egregious calls. Ever.

Perry high stick in OT with a ton of blood - that needs to be called. If the refs missed it (lol since they were looking straight at it) - you need to come up with a mechanism to allow that to be called afterwards. Few different ways of doing this:

A. Toronto review. Have a ref/team in the video room reviewing play, who can call stuff at the next stoppage. This would only happen in exceptional cases, not for every minor penalty missed. Since it can only happen after stoppage, any play/goal scored in meantime still stands (ex: the Perry high stick - if on that play Vegas had scored the OT winning goal, too bad, game over, you can't change that. But if play stops with no goal - well refs in video room can call a penalty at that time only)

B. Allow refs/linesmates to consult and call penalty after. Maybe even review play to do so. Right now if a ref misses a penalty - he has no power to call it after. ie the refs didn't call the Perry high stick - they can't just decide to do so 30 seconds later. So what i'm saying here - give them the ability to do so. They can go in a huddle, maybe even review play, and if it's bad enough, call a penalty.

C. Allow for coach's reviews for bad plays. You'd have to put some limits to not slow play down too much, and also not to give the team doing the challenge too huge of a negative. Because imagine this:

- Refs missed the Perry high stick
- Habs call for a review.
- Refs disagree, and penalize Habs for delay of game

So - I think if coaches challenges are allowed for penalties, you need to put some limits:

Only 1 a game
Refs can do anything from: No call to either team, call on the missed penalty, call on the challenging team delay of game if it's a complete waste of time to review.

So for the Perry hit - refs would either call the Perry penalty on review (seems obvious) or maybe do no call (for whatever reason) - but certainly wouldn't call penalty on habs for delay of game. So a team like Habs shouldn't be afraid to ask review for such an egregious hit. But if instead of a blatant high stick with blood it was a minor hooking they tried to review - refs can decide "no, bs, don't waste our time, you get penalty for delay of game".

The scary part in all of this is that i'm actually giving the refs more power lol. But I think if you create a scenario where they can review together in huddle really bad missed calls, 9 times out of 10 they'll make it right. I think the biggest issue is that refs seems afraid to make a call in the heat of the moment on their own - but if they can talk it out/review/consider with a clear head, most big missed calls would be fixed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mandiblesofdoom

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad