Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi

[Motte and Bailey]

So, amongst my entire post, I highlight five of Juolevi's major positive contributions to the game -a solid physical backcheck where he ties up Liam O'Brien. a point blast the turns into a scoring chance on the powerplay, his work on the Malone goal. His effort on the Camper goal, and lastly a shot-block on Joe Snively in the waning minutes of the third.

I also highlighted three negatives . His missed pokecheck on the second Pilon goal after Malone blows his drop pass. Then his blatant giveaway to Matt Moulson in the defensive zone, that fortunately didn't turn into a goal against. his weak skating speed to catch a loose puck in the defensive zone, where he has both time and space to reach the puck before the Hershey attacker.

99% of the people commenting on my recaps want to hear only about Juolevi's progress.

He had a solid game against Hershey. Such that I had more positive highlights of him than negative.

In my takeaways from the game, I still had to asterisk the fact that his weak skating leaves him as a huge liability. And may likely hinder him from any NHL success, let alone AHL success.

You must've missed where I say that I dont fault him on the goals-against tonight, and praise him for the offensive side of his game.

Saying I'm living in the past is rich given you've never watched the Comets play lol

I want Juolevi to succeed as much as any other Canucks prospect. Just because I'm critical of him as I am of every person doesn't mean I'm "piling on."

Blindly disregarding my take on a player because you have a favoritism towards wanting to see him succeed is just as much of a bias as me being a realist about where he's at.

Let's have a look at the 3 plays by Olli Juolevi you highlighted as negative.



When I watch that clip I see Juolevi first on the puck making the correct simple play over Sautner who then turns it over with an ill advised drop pass with 2 Hershey Bears directly behind him. So Hershey has the puck and Juolevi does a good job keeping the puck carrier to the outside. From there, Francis Perron lets his guy pass it to the slot and Sautner is in no man's land while his check scores. Juolevi does every thing right on this shift and you called it a negative. It's not a negative. This is why posters who like you cannot understand why you said that.



In this second clip Juolevi does cough the puck up but every defenseman does this on occasion - what we want to know is how Juolevi responds to his mistake on the play and we see that he recovers perfectly - he gaps perfectly and covers the passing lanes then separates his man from the puck with his body - and doesn't even allow Hershey to get a shot on goal on what looks like it could've been a 2 on 1 with Juolevi being the lone defender. That's a negative? Come on Thrill. That was a great recovery and defense and exactly what we want to see from Juolevi at this stage.



This last clip shows Juolevi missing a pass in transition. It's not a good play by Juolevi like the previous 2 clips were but it does nothing to support your negative evaluation of Juolevi's skating or defensive game. Unless we want to talk about Juolevi's overall pass accuracy (which is very good) this clip doesn't give us much information at all.

Maybe you're new to hockey and if you are that's great that you're putting so much effort into making game summaries. My advice to you is to start watching games with guys who have played hockey at a decently high level and ask them what they think of certain plays - who was doing their job right and who wasn't - maybe even reach out to a video coach or two to hone your ability to evaluate isolated plays. It will do a lot to improve the quality of your Utica Comets game summaries.

 

[4Twenty]

did you edit his post or did he?

I didn’t

 

[krutovsdonut]

rmb, juolevi looks slow and disengaged in all those clips. on the first one it is true sautner made a really bad reverse but juolevi should have carried it in the first place instead of a very casual pass to sautner that gave the forward time to close on sautner. then when there was a bad reverse juolevi failed to pin his man, which is how the puck ended up in the slot. the other two were giveaways that would get you sat own for at least a period in the nhl.

 

[sting101]

I call bull****.

yes its actually amazing that someone would write a dissertation on Jim Benning from 3-4 yrs ago and then put the blame on others for bringing it up.

 

[4Twenty]

If you think I'm supporting any side, you don't understand what I'm talking about or don't want to. One side is ignorant. One side is lying and pushing incomplete, false arguments through brute force and numbers when sensible but less psychologically satisfying arguments could be made for the same points. If you don't understand why anyone would find the latter more repugnant, more deserving of scrutiny, and more interesting to unpack, I don't know what to tell you.

Well I see you quoted Melvin’s post. I’m wondering where the bad faith is in it? If you were hoping to unpack something why did you only quote the last paragraph. Did you agree with the first two?

 

[Melvin]

Well I see you quoted Melvin’s post. I’m wondering where the bad faith is in it? If you were hoping to unpack something why did you only quote the last paragraph. Did you agree with the first two?

Whoever you're talking to is on my ignore list so I don't really care what he's saying. I won't respond.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Well I see you quoted Melvin’s post. I’m wondering where the bad faith is in it? If you were hoping to unpack something why did you only quote the last paragraph. Did you agree with the first two?

The last paragraph was essentially a summary of the first two and quoting it was more convenient.

 

[4Twenty]

yes its actually amazing that someone would write a dissertation on Jim Benning from 3-4 yrs ago and then put the blame on others for bringing it up.

Who did that? In this thread? When?

 

[4Twenty]

The last paragraph was essentially a summary of the first two and quoting it was more convenient.

It wasn’t a summary and the most convenient action wouldn’t have involved deleting parts of the post if we’re being honest.

Anyways here’s hoping Juolevi figures it out and is our 4th Calder finalist in a row next season.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

rmb, juolevi looks slow and disengaged in all those clips. on the first one it is true sautner made a really bad reverse but juolevi should have carried it in the first place instead of a very casual pass to sautner that gave the forward time to close on sautner. then when there was a bad reverse juolevi failed to pin his man, which is how the puck ended up in the slot. the other two were giveaways that would get you sat own for at least a period in the nhl.

Turnover happened too fast for a pin. Watch the Hershey player’s body and stick position relative to Juolevi and the puck. If Juolevi pins him his stick is still free to pass it to the open man at the point. When you can actually separate your man from the puck or if it’s in his feet then it’s a good idea to pin him against the boards. Juolevi stayed with him and kept good stick positioning and pressure on him pretty well. If you’re looking for Juolevi to throw a crushing hit to prove he’s engaged it’s not going to happen because that’s not his game.

The other two giveaways happen every few minutes in the NHL. Maybe if a guy is constantly turning it over like that he will be sat but one or two a game like that is normal - we’ve seen Quinn Hughes do that at least once a game and he’s the high minute man. Juolevi is one of the best first pass/passing defence men in the AHL so I cut him some slack when a pass occasionally doesn’t work.

 

[Hit the post]

[QUOTE="VancouverJagger, post: 168382565, member: 282933]Seems to be that he's getting his bearings again after his latest injury - if (and that's a big if considering his history) he can stay healthy for the rest of the season there's probably a decent chance that he makes his Canucks debut at some point this season. Which for the fans is something to look forward to.......regardless of whether or not he was the right pick or not.[/QUOTE]


Unlikely unless we get a ton of injuries on the blueline. It’s not like we’ve got the likes of 4 million dollar #6D (Guds) or a Poo back there on the blueline anymore. Fanta seems to have cemented that #7 spot quite nicely. That’s the danger of having your development stalled because of injuries; you fall further and further behind the depth chart.

 

[Ainec]

He's in bust territory.

66% in safe picks between Juolevi, McCann (fail trade) and Podkolzin

Batting 100 with high potential picks in Hughes and Pettersson

Virtanen was a fail because of the easy picks on board.

 

[sting101]

I'm not really gonna judge Olli until Febuary providing he has no major set backs from now till then.

Unlike a lot of prople around here i firmly believe injuries have a huge effect on physical and mental performance. In fact sometimes the mental part can be tougher than the physical. It's looking increasingly like the Comets should be a playoff team and that should extend the evaluation to a good point for me to get a more acurate assessment. Hoping it goes well

 

[VancouverJagger]

[QUOTE="VancouverJagger, post: 168382565, member: 282933]Seems to be that he's getting his bearings again after his latest injury - if (and that's a big if considering his history) he can stay healthy for the rest of the season there's probably a decent chance that he makes his Canucks debut at some point this season. Which for the fans is something to look forward to.......regardless of whether or not he was the right pick or not.

Unlikely unless we get a ton of injuries on the blueline. It’s not like we’ve got the likes of 4 million dollar #6D (Guds) or a Poo back there on the blueline anymore. Fanta seems to have cemented that #7 spot quite nicely. That’s the danger of having your development stalled because of injuries; you fall further and further behind the depth chart.[/QUOTE]


Yeah I agree.........I also tend to think that if he continues his run of decent play and there's any opportunity to get him some ice time with the big club at some point in the season (even if it's only a game) Benning and co. will do it.

I'd venture to say Fanta is top 6 now btw.........finally one of our current regimes D men pick ups that seems to be decent (I've been soo conditioned to expect failure on the back end acquisitions that he's been a very pleasant surprise so far).

 

[THRILLHOIAF]

Let's have a look at the 3 plays by Olli Juolevi you highlighted as negative.


When I watch that clip I see Juolevi first on the puck making the correct simple play over Sautner who then turns it over with an ill advised drop pass with 2 Hershey Bears directly behind him. So Hershey has the puck and Juolevi does a good job keeping the puck carrier to the outside. From there, Francis Perron lets his guy pass it to the slot and Sautner is in no man's land while his check scores. Juolevi does every thing right on this shift and you called it a negative. It's not a negative. This is why posters who like you cannot understand why you said that.



In this second clip Juolevi does cough the puck up but every defenseman does this on occasion - what we want to know is how Juolevi responds to his mistake on the play and we see that he recovers perfectly - he gaps perfectly and covers the passing lanes then separates his man from the puck with his body - and doesn't even allow Hershey to get a shot on goal on what looks like it could've been a 2 on 1 with Juolevi being the lone defender. That's a negative? Come on Thrill. That was a great recovery and defense and exactly what we want to see from Juolevi at this stage.


This last clip shows Juolevi missing a pass in transition. It's not a good play by Juolevi like the previous 2 clips were but it does nothing to support your negative evaluation of Juolevi's skating or defensive game. Unless we want to talk about Juolevi's overall pass accuracy (which is very good) this clip doesn't give us much information at all.

Maybe you're new to hockey and if you are that's great that you're putting so much effort into making game summaries. My advice to you is to start watching games with guys who have played hockey at a decently high level and ask them what they think of certain plays - who was doing their job right and who wasn't - maybe even reach out to a video coach or two to hone your ability to evaluate isolated plays. It will do a lot to improve the quality of your Utica Comets game summaries.

My dude you're getting caught up on a couple things I said that you disagree with. Your second clip you're using to take my critique down is a streamable that I literally described as a major positive of his game against Hershey, and you're spinning it like I said it was a negative. lol

The first clip his footspeed is complete garbage, and the last clip he has a giveaway, one of three from just the first period that I caught



This one is debatable because he's under pressure along the boards. But he looks like he's skating with cinderblocks to the end boards, and then coughs up the puck that almost gets stolen by Jonsson-Fjallby but is recovered by Rafferty



Same thing, pressure along the boards in the defensive end and he just blindly chips it up to a Hershey player.

+ the Matt Moulson giveaway earlier.


That's just from the first period. If I had included all three, the second which is actually a pretty egregious giveaway, you'd chew me out for "piling on." when I'm literally just giving examples of his gameplay in isolation.

Giveaways like this get you benched in the NHL.

I'll happily reach out to a video coach to better enhance my observation.

You can sugar coat them all you want, but he had some glaring issues amongst his positives, and that's all I'm pointing out.

I'm going through and tracking events for this game right now, and just finished the 1st period. He was on-ice for 3 shot-attempts FOR, and 8 shot-attempts against at 5-on-5.

'bout to start tracking the rest of the game. If there are any more major positives/negatives I'll drop them in here

 

[Melvin]

Yikes, what is he even doing in that first one.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Olli Juolevi is on track to be a similar case as Derrick Pouliot. A defenseman who was drafted high, disappointed after being drafted, and in the end goes to another organization for cheap (or nothing). Struggles there, and fizzles out of the league. There is nothing about Juolevi that makes me think he has any kind of top 4 potential, and if he weren't drafted 5th overall and were merely a 4th or 5th round pick, there'd be no discussion of him.

 

[RobertKron]

Yikes, what is he even doing in that first one.

That's honestly the weird thing about all of these clips: there's basically zero urgency in anything he does in them. The intercepted passes are soft and bad decisions, and everything else looks like he's moving at 2/3 pace. He skates like a 50 year old former junior player playing in a tierIII rec league, if that makes any sense. Obviously these are individual plays, but it's really kind of bizarre.

 

[Hit the post]

Unlikely unless we get a ton of injuries on the blueline. It’s not like we’ve got the likes of 4 million dollar #6D (Guds) or a Poo back there on the blueline anymore. Fanta seems to have cemented that #7 spot quite nicely. That’s the danger of having your development stalled because of injuries; you fall further and further behind the depth chart.

Yeah I agree.........I also tend to think that if he continues his run of decent play and there's any opportunity to get him some ice time with the big club at some point in the season (even if it's only a game) Benning and co. will do it.

I'd venture to say Fanta is top 6 now btw.........finally one of our current regimes D men pick ups that seems to be decent (I've been soo conditioned to expect failure on the back end acquisitions that he's been a very pleasant surprise so far).[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's actually a good thing (from the team's POV) that we've got some kind of depth back there (sure you'd like more but at least the organization if FINALLY heading in the right direction towards this). Ok, back to my usual anti-Benning rants .

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

This thread is closed for the time being. Please do not attempt to re-open a new one; a new one will be opened once some time has passed and some ground rules for it have been established.