Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
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sting101
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- Feb 8, 2012
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No i really don't.
I havent really posted much since the weather got nice and the season ended. I've just been drawn back in as the draft approaches and as teams start to make moves..................you on the other hand i see are constantly waging debate with anyone willing to have optimism and are posting the same arguments from 3 months ago. so if anyone takes this place too seriously that would be you
I don’t take it seriously at all. I do enjoy arguing about hockey and I’ve got an unlimited data plan so that probably explains why I’m on here so much.
The only people who take it too seriously are the ones who get angry at what other people post. They are just words displaying on your phone about millionaire athletes. Calling posters a “lynch mob” suggest you take it all too seriously.
sting101
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- Feb 8, 2012
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No i disagree Canafan. Words matter and what people say says a lot about who they are.
you are being over sensitive...... Lynch mob definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
Sound like i'm taking it too seriously or calling it what it is?
sting101
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- Feb 8, 2012
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Would you if Dobson's career trajectory followed Pietrangelo and Zadina's followe RNH??
Yes words *can* matter. It doesn’t mean they do on a hockey message board by posters following the rules of conduct for the board.
Agree you are probably taking it too seriously.
rypper
21-12-05 it's finally over.
- Dec 22, 2006
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This site 2016 NHL Draft Consensus Rankings has Juolevi ranked as the consensus 7th overall pick. If we drafted BPA instead of for need, Tkachuk would be a Canuck.
I didn't realize that was the draft list that every team used. Do you have one that every team will be using this year?
No but if a team picks off the a widely known and public consensus then the apologists for management shouldn't whine about "but in hindsight"...
You should wait until he recovers from back surgery before making predictions...everybody should.
Nope!
I made this handy graph a while back.
Zadina busting would be a bottom right quadrant result. Dobson becoming Pietrangelo 2.0 after we passed on Zadina to take him would be a top left quadrant result.
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604
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- Nov 1, 2011
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Why do people act like their idiots?
Obviously based on a minimum review the list is a composite of several public lists.
You can also see one for this year and it is something that should be benchmarked against using hindsight to review preformance.
If a buffalo picks svech 1st it is an off the board pick, even though it is just one draft spot difference.
I don't know, why don't you tell me? My statement just showed that the term BPA is a very subjective thing at the time. There is no definitive list to go quoting from, and each team has their own list of BPA. Hindsight is a very different thing. Go ahead and judge the picks after a bit of time all you want, it doesn't change the subjective nature of BPA at the time. Every player develops differently as well based on opportunity and organizational coaching talent.
sting101
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DL44
Status quo
drax0s
Registered User
Heh, now that you mention it - yeah. The only times we've picked consensus - we've perfectly targeted "Meh".
Let's do more of that going forward!
604
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So how do you suggest evaluating good drafting? How do you determine which scouts are the best?
Is there a way to determine whether EDM drafts better than VAN?
I think you have to look at how they rate guys pre-draft vs. what actually happened.
From what I remember the Canucks staff ended up middle of the road relative to the public lists (IIRC it was CSS>Mckeens>Canucks>Bob>ISS or something like that for the range from 15 to 5 years ago).
We have yet to make a slam dunk consensus pick in the top-10, so hard to say. All of those meh picks were in the mid to late 20's, where there will almost never be a consensus.
drax0s
Registered User
To be honest, I guess Tkachuk would've been in that column had we picked him - it's just kind of amusing how it's worked out so far.
Bleach Clean
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- Aug 9, 2006
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I would say it's difficult to be right. Forget criticism. Forget unwarranted optimism. Is the person right? Is the data/homework correct? Those are the only things that should matter. Beyond that, I couldn't care less if a poster criticizes every single aspect of this organization. Or, if someone is unduly optimistic with everything management does. It still comes down to: Can you prove it?
There's a lot here that is outside the scope of the original argument. So I will re-iterate the argument once more:
PoM is making a false equivalency between the negative reaction Juolevi is garnering pre-NHL and the negative reaction the Sedins garnered when they first came over to the NHL. It's false because before the Sedins stepped foot on NHL ice, they were looking back at two fantastic years in the SEL. Juolevi, to this point, has nothing like this on his resume. Not even close. So I am supposing that a savvy draftist would have (back then) recognized this fact and would have afforded the Sedins more leeway with their early transition. They still had the markers of future top end players. By contrast, the questions with Juolevi were there throughout his draft year and beyond. These aren't comparable situations.
Next, you say that you never expected Juolevi to be a top4 Dman on the Canucks starting last season. I would say that that's... very convenient. I would also say that you were a big proponent of this pick and defended it tooth and nail when Tkachuk was brought up. How's it looking for you so far? Juolevi was never expected to quickly develop? Are you kidding me? He was a top5 pick. Top5 picks are supposed to be excellent prospects that advance above their peers. How low were your expectations of him that this all going according to plan for you? I guess you must have expected Tkachuk to leave him in his wake as well?
The peer group is everything. These guys are drafted in a class of similarly aged players. They are judged against those players, constantly, and throughout their careers. Why wouldn't it matter? Actually, you said "matters a lot". So do you mean to say that peer groups matter, just not to the level that I think they do? If so, what is your take on how Juolevi is currently perceived among his peer group? Just curious.
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biturbo19
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- Jul 13, 2010
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It's just hard to put into words how frustrating this whole back injury/surgery situation is. For this team, and this prospect especially. Really hate to see back issues creeping into a player at such a young age. More than that though, even in the shorter-term...it's a complete derailment of whatever Juolevi might've been building towards for this year. It's a huge amount of missed time, adding a ton of rehabilitation work, while contributing to missed normal training and conditioning time. For a prospect where that's one of the biggest stumbling blocks. Plus a bunch of time wading back in until he can (hopefully) fully trust it again afterward. Certainly isn't going to help with the other biggest issue of getting him to feel comfortable engaging physically and battling with more consistency.
Ugh.
Ugh.
PuckMunchkin
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