Prospect Info: Olli Juolevi Discussion XXXIIII (Post #755)

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Zombotron

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The assumption was that London would exit early and lie down to Windsor, and then of course, London beat Windsor in 7

I remember posting a hypothetical where Juolevi made it to the Canucks in time for their big tank showdown with Arizona (ft. Jakob Chychrun and Clayton Keller) on April 6th. It was all for naught because the Knights advanced to the second round.
 

jonnygf40

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His Ceiling is Hampus Lindholm. He doesn't play like Duncan Keith at all.


Button compared him Lindholm
ISS compared him to lindholm
Pronman compared him to lindholm.

Just took a look at the 2012 draft, is Lindholm the best player to come out of that draft? I know Forsberg would be up there, but a 24 minute dman is invaluable to a team. Speaking of drafts, does anyone else think the 2017 draft could mirror the 2012 draft? No ELITE talent, just a bunch of solid players.

.... oh, and I would love it if Juolevi could turn into our version of Lindholm.
 

PetterssonSimp

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I don't know how many of you follow Pass It to Bulis, but he just retweeting some concerning OJ stats. The same kind of impact I've always noticed from Alex Edler when it comes to defending the play and breaking up zone entries along with efficiency on zone exits. These are not aspects of the game a defenceman should be having this much trouble with if he's expected to be a top pairing defenceman. Something I feel separates Chris Tanev and Alex Edler as defenceman.
 

clay

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I don't know how many of you follow Pass It to Bulis, but he just retweeting some concerning OJ stats. The same kind of impact I've always noticed from Alex Edler when it comes to defending the play and breaking up zone entries along with efficiency on zone exits. These are not aspects of the game a defenceman should be having this much trouble with if he's expected to be a top pairing defenceman. Something I feel separates Chris Tanev and Alex Edler as defenceman.

Alex Edler has had a very solid career and we would be lucky if OJ followed the same career path (top 4 minute eating dman who flirts with #1 status in his peak years)
 

PetterssonSimp

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Alex Edler has had a very solid career and we would be lucky if OJ followed the same career path (top 4 minute eating dman who flirts with #1 status in his peak years)

I disagree. I've always felt Edler was a solid #2 in those peak years, which also only lasted at best 3 years, more likely 2. Which is also more than those amounts back from current Edler. In the majority of his career he's always been so physically gifted and naturally good skater I felt he could take that next step up to being a clear cut #1. Then he'd put up an awful season and have since his offence has stagnated or even regressed.
Reminds me of how everyone and their dog could see Edler telegraph the drop pass on the PP, or simple break out passes lately. These are the things that have stuck out most about OJ and that's in the OHL.
 

Breakers

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Unfortunately this lines up with the eye-test.



Ran into Stan Smyl around February.

He said Juolevi was struggling quite a bit this season up to that point.
So I'd assume some of the canucks management probably has the same concerns.

But i didn't think it was this bad. Plus I don't know what the sample size for this study was according to Zac Urback
 

M2Beezy

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So his offensive side of the game is struggling? How bout the defensive side of things?
 

mathonwy

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I disagree. I've always felt Edler was a solid #2 in those peak years, which also only lasted at best 3 years, more likely 2. Which is also more than those amounts back from current Edler. In the majority of his career he's always been so physically gifted and naturally good skater I felt he could take that next step up to being a clear cut #1. Then he'd put up an awful season and have since his offence has stagnated or even regressed.
Reminds me of how everyone and their dog could see Edler telegraph the drop pass on the PP, or simple break out passes lately. These are the things that have stuck out most about OJ and that's in the OHL.

There's a definite correlation between Edler's on-ice performance and team harmony and that correlation is higher than the rest of his peers.

In a harmonious environment where everyone is on the same page Edler plays like a 1st pairing d-man.

In a dysfunctional environment, Edler puts up a league worst -39 plus/minus stat.

So does the fact that Edler's on-ice performance being dependent on the state of team harmony relegate him to a #2 rather than a #1?

:dunno:
 

Grantham

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I think most of us who watched him in the regular season this year would agree that it was a big disappointment. His defensive play was the most worrying for me, as he looked worse than last year.

However, having watched every one of his playoff games this year, it allayed any worries I had about the defensive side of his game. He got better as the playoffs went on. I thought he was clearly the best defenseman for his team, and outplayed Sergachev on both sides of the rink. I think he just needs to add muscle and strength now. Canucks camp will be very interesting to see how the offseason went for him.
 

VanJack

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Unless the Canucks make a deal or sign another UFA, they're not going to have much choice but to use Juolevi, even if it's in a limited role....and if they end up dealing Tanev or Edler, then it's definitely Juolevi, ready or not.
 

NuxFan09

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Unfortunately this lines up with the eye-test.


Ugh, this is so discouraging. Like others have said, it matches up with the bit I saw for myself too.

I'm one of the people who defended the Juolevi pick from the start, but if it turns out that Benning ****ed this pick up as Well, then there goes the last thing I had faith in Benning to do.
 

Kryten

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Just dont rush him into the NHL like Virtanen and McCann please. If he isnt ready then keep him in Junior
 

Canucks LB

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He was unreal in the playoffs, showed true growth, that's all I needed to see this year.

He won me over
 

PetterssonSimp

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There's a definite correlation between Edler's on-ice performance and team harmony and that correlation is higher than the rest of his peers.

In a harmonious environment where everyone is on the same page Edler plays like a 1st pairing d-man.

In a dysfunctional environment, Edler puts up a league worst -39 plus/minus stat.

So does the fact that Edler's on-ice performance being dependent on the state of team harmony relegate him to a #2 rather than a #1?

:dunno:

He's never been a #1 at all. He has all the tools, but no toolbox. This is where I disagree he is the second coming of Edler. Had anyone actually read what I said, i said he's Dan Hamhuis in size but has all the regular faults of Edler, bad blind passes, easily beat along the boards and poor with his stick when defending one on one. These are major concerns when discussing a defenceman expected to play top pairing in his career.
Also Edler has very poor during Willie's one playoff run but pretty good defensive defenceman the following year just the same flaws everyone cracks Tanev for, very little offensive game. For a guy who is supposed to be a quality 2way guy who used to be an offensive guy these are not good traits. OJ's game seems to follow all the same flaws.
Part of the reason why I say we've drafted Alex Edler and Raffi Torres of the new generation at 5 and 6. Torres was a 6th overall, so getting another there is only as bad as the Oilers draft record, think of that as you will. But grabbing another Edler at 5th overall I don't feel comfortable with. Especially when I've been highly vocal on the need for strong LW who can compliment Bo a lot better.
 

Pip

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A resounding meh. Maybe a year in Finland would do him some good. Really doubt that he's NHL ready.
 

StIllmatic

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He was unreal in the playoffs, showed true growth, that's all I needed to see this year.

He won me over

As more and more time goes by, the more you exaggerate his playoffs. Unreal seems like hyperbole. If anything, he finally lived up to expectations in the playoffs after underperforming most of the year.
 

Krnuckfan

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As more and more time goes by, the more you exaggerate his playoffs. Unreal seems like hyperbole. If anything, he finally lived up to expectations in the playoffs after underperforming most of the year.

Yea an unreal playoffs is the kind of playoffs Ivan Provorov had the previous year when he carried his team and was clearly their best player. Juolevi's performance pales in comparison to that. He wasn't even his team's most valuable player.
 

WTG

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A resounding meh. Maybe a year in Finland would do him some good. Really doubt that he's NHL ready.

Should have been in finland this past season IMO.

Needs to learn to make plays with the puck.



As far as the whole disappointing season goes, I agree. I defended Juolevi, but you are lying to yourself if you think he hasn't disappointment. His play has stagnated and it's just as I feared there is nothing to be learned from staying another year in London. This kid needs to learn to hold onto the puck and try to do something offensive with it, he can't keep doing the same thing and not learn, he's plateauing at this level. Not to say, he's outgrown this level, just that he's become content at this level. It's awfully similar to Virtanen's last year in junior, how he's really not learning anything just doing what he always does. If you don't push yourself to try to make yourself better in all aspects of the game you are simply not going to be that good. Juolevi needs a shake up, send him to Finland.

See a guy like Sergachev, or Bean they both have grown despite their point totals being down. Bean has been forced into a defensive role and has come out even, Sergachev too. Juolevi has seen his offensive role decrease and his defensive role remain stagnant. I don't blame Juolevi for this, this is really a big fault of our development staff who aren't on point with what role the players need to play. Our development staff is garbage tier, and it shows. Look at McCann, Virtanen, Corrado. The players are largely responsible for their own development, which is incredibly dumb, because they are essentially teenagers so they are going to make mistakes and you need to be incredibly clear to them. There's a reason why we can't develop anyone, and when they do develop like Horvat it's all self improvement on their own terms. Horvat went through lengths to improve his skating and hiring a private skating coach, that wasn't on the club but on Horvat.

So frustrating.
 
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VanJack

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Just dont rush him into the NHL like Virtanen and McCann please. If he isnt ready then keep him in Junior

If the Canucks had only admitted what everybody knew the year Virtanen and McCann were the lineup together, that they were a 'rebuilding' team, then they'd have just played them and let them learn on the fly....instead they labored under a coach who gave them a bizarre assignments, cut their ice-time in third periods and sent them to the pressbox routinely.

To this day I don't think either kid has a clue why they were or weren't playing....Virtanen said as much last year before he was shipped to Utica.

So Juloevi is breaking into a totally different situation hopefully and expectations will be totally different.
 

Bleach Clean

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Should have been in finland this past season IMO.

Needs to learn to make plays with the puck.


This is somewhat surprising to me because Juolevi never represented a dynamic puck rusher at the time of draft, let alone now, so why is this an expectation?

Looking through the old draft lists by posters here, there are long-tenured people, draft watchers, that had this defenseman as their top Dman selection: And it was simply an incorrect assessment. He was never the outright best Dman in his class. Nor was he the best choice at his spot. That is bearing itself out.


As far as the whole disappointing season goes, I agree. I defended Juolevi, but you are lying to yourself if you think he hasn't disappointment. His play has stagnated and it's just as I feared there is nothing to be learned from staying another year in London. This kid needs to learn to hold onto the puck and try to do something offensive with it, he can't keep doing the same thing and not learn, he's plateauing at this level. Not to say, he's outgrown this level, just that he's become content at this level. It's awfully similar to Virtanen's last year in junior, how he's really not learning anything just doing what he always does. If you don't push yourself to try to make yourself better in all aspects of the game you are simply not going to be that good. Juolevi needs a shake up, send him to Finland.

See a guy like Sergachev, or Bean they both have grown despite their point totals being down. Bean has been forced into a defensive role and has come out even, Sergachev too. Juolevi has seen his offensive role decrease and his defensive role remain stagnant. I don't blame Juolevi for this, this is really a big fault of our development staff who aren't on point with what role the players need to play. Our development staff is garbage tier, and it shows. Look at McCann, Virtanen, Corrado. The players are largely responsible for their own development, which is incredibly dumb, because they are essentially teenagers so they are going to make mistakes and you need to be incredibly clear to them. There's a reason why we can't develop anyone, and when they do develop like Horvat it's all self improvement on their own terms. Horvat went through lengths to improve his skating and hiring a private skating coach, that wasn't on the club but on Horvat.

So frustrating.


I don't think it's development so much as it is his natural skillset and tendencies. Having his draft + 1 season in the CHL afforded him the opportunity to become more of an impact player for his team. A more dominant player in a familiar environment. IMO, that's where a player can try things. Take risks offensively. He just simply is not that type of player. He's a controlled, shut-down Dman. Not someone that generates offense in the capacity of a PMD.
 

F A N

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See a guy like Sergachev, or Bean they both have grown despite their point totals being down. Bean has been forced into a defensive role and has come out even, Sergachev too.

These guys were perceived to be not as good as Juolevi defensively. If these guys point totals are down because they are forced into a defensive role that actually doesn't bode well for them. In contrast, Juolevi actually played more of a defensive role this season and produced similar totals.

Looking through the old draft lists by posters here, there are long-tenured people, draft watchers, that had this defenseman as their top Dman selection: And it was simply an incorrect assessment. He was never the outright best Dman in his class. Nor was he the best choice at his spot. That is bearing itself out.

After one season? I don't think so. Too early to tell.

I don't think it's development so much as it is his natural skillset and tendencies. Having his draft + 1 season in the CHL afforded him the opportunity to become more of an impact player for his team. A more dominant player in a familiar environment. IMO, that's where a player can try things. Take risks offensively. He just simply is not that type of player. He's a controlled, shut-down Dman. Not someone that generates offense in the capacity of a PMD.

The Knights beat writer told us that he was asked to play more of a defensive role this season. In the playoffs, Juolevi led all Knights' Dman in PPG and PPP.
 
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