News Article: OHL's New Fight Rules & What it Means For the NHL?

[The Underboss]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/t...-staged-fights-and-what-they-mean-to-the-nhl/


"Does fighting have a place in the game of hockey? It’s a question we’ve debated again and again and again. Each injury, each staged fight, each donnybrook that breaks out after a clean hit leads to the inevitable conversation or shouting match.

Whatever you think of the subject, it’s clear the fighting role and its place in a lineup is slowly changing.

In the NHL, we’re seeing fewer one-dimensional fighters taking up five-minute roles on a fourth line. They’re still there (Shawn Thornton found work in Florida and John Scott somehow got a contract from the San Jose Sharks), but for the most part, the teams who acquire and use these types of players are either scrambling in disarray (San Jose) or have a history of bad, behind the curve management (Florida)...."

Click to read more...

 

[Renbarg]

There will always be a place for organic fights.

However, thankfully, guys like Bolton, Scott, and the like, and fights they fight are quickly dying down.

 

[seabass45]

Just curious, I looked up our fight stats and was surprised to see Matt Martin at the top. http://www.hockeyfights.com/teams/19/season_leaders/reg2014

Meanwhile, we also have Carkner and Boulton, two guys who would be AHL fodder if they didn't fight, and Hamonic, who should never fight again in his career.

ANYWAY, I'm in favor of this rule for the OHL.

 

[rikker]

fights do nothing for me. i like seeing guys pay for their cheapshots, but i'd rather see a double minor or a 5 min major assessed, than watch a fight. as long as the referees are calling the game the way it us supposed to be, there is not need for retribution.

i like the new rules for the OHL too.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

1. You do not talk about the OHL.
2. You do not talk about the OHL.
3. There are no other rules.

 

[Strummergas]

Staged fights are nauseating. But I have no problem with two players going at it after battling hard.

 

[charlie1]

I still don't understand why SJ picked up Scott.

And the word "donnybrook" always cracks me up.

 

[Felix Unger]

I think, and I still think, that the best way to avoid staged fights is to make each player in the lineup more essential. Once that happens, having goons on the roster becomes a severe hindrance.

There are lots of ways to do this. Full 2 minute minor power plays would do it. (Each team would need more bottom 6 players who could PK, no goons). Making another player (coach selected) accompany a fighter in a staged fight for 5 minutes in the penalty box could also do it.

I also think the NHL has to do something to address fights after clean hits. They're ridiculous. I don't know how to do it, though.

 

[charlie1]

I think, and I still think, that the best way to avoid staged fights is to make each player in the lineup more essential. Once that happens, having goons on the roster becomes a severe hindrance.

There are lots of ways to do this. Full 2 minute minor power plays would do it. (Each team would need more bottom 6 players who could PK, no goons). Making another player (coach selected) accompany a fighter in a staged fight for 5 minutes in the penalty box could also do it.

I also think the NHL has to do something to address fights after clean hits. They're ridiculous. I don't know how to do it, though.

Good point. I think often the hit happens so quickly that it's difficult to know if you teammate was hit cleanly or not. You just see someone crush your friend and your first instinct is to go defend him. On the replay we can say it was a clean hit, but in the heat of the moment it's a tough call. The difference between a clean hit and a late hit (or high hit) is a split second (or a few inches). And when in doubt I'd err on the side of sticking up for my teammate. So yeah it's going to be difficult to address that.

 

[scott99]

I've always been against fighting in the NHL, I always thought it cheapened the NHL, made it look like an amateur league. That being said, I always appreciated guys like Clark Gillies, guys who can score 30-40 goals and still protect linemates like Bossy. IF they aren't going to get rid of it, at least using rules like these make sense.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Hockey's not ballet. Fighting serves a real purpose on the game and has a place. If somebody doesn't want to watch a fight I understand-change the channel.

Oh and let's be honest stages or not fights get everybody out of their seats. Beautiful breakout passes don't.

 

[Sorge Georos]

I'm not the most pro-fighting person, and it's annoying how elitist NHL fans rant about how NFLers/NBAers are thugs while condoning it...with that being said I'll take an Okposo vs. Niskanen any day. It's just the staged fights where goon fights goon under the guise of "providing energy" and "protecting our stars" that I don't care for.

 

[Cavonnier]

Staged fights are nauseating. But I have no problem with two players going at it after battling hard.

I tend to agree, except I do think Justin Johnson making the most of his two-game cup of coffee by knocking down John Scott was awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8qZ3huAdk

 

[scott99]

Hockey's not ballet. Fighting serves a real purpose on the game and has a place. If somebody doesn't want to watch a fight I understand-change the channel.

Oh and let's be honest stages or not fights get everybody out of their seats. Beautiful breakout passes don't.

What exact purpose does fighting serve ? It should be like every other sport, you fight, you're out of the game.

 

[ScaredStreit]

What exact purpose does fighting serve ? It should be like every other sport, you fight, you're out of the game.

Unlike every other sport it's VERY easy to intentionally injure somebody (severely) in a hockey game. Because of this there needs to be checks and balances. Fighting helps keep the players honest. There was never a don't mess with Gretzky rule...there was a you mess with Gretzky and you're going to get your butt kicked during your next shift rule.

I'd make the argument that without fighting Gretzky wouldn't have had as good of a career as he did. So fighting in that situation actually allowed for more skill in the game.

Remember when Crosby used to get thrown around on the Penguins and they never got any protection for him? Well the Penguins finally smartened up.

Why do you think fighting should NOT be allowed?

 

[Renbarg]

Unlike every other sport it's VERY easy to intentionally injure somebody (severely) in a hockey game. Because of this there needs to be checks and balances. Fighting helps keep the players honest. There was never a don't mess with Gretzky rule...there was a you mess with Gretzky and you're going to get your butt kicked during your next shift rule.

I'd make the argument that without fighting Gretzky wouldn't have had as good of a career as he did. So fighting in that situation actually allowed for more skill in the game.

Remember when Crosby used to get thrown around on the Penguins and they never got any protection for him? Well the Penguins finally smartened up.

Why do you think fighting should NOT be allowed?

This is ********, and even more so today.

What happens when someone like Clutterbuck runs a guy? There's a 40% chance he gets jumped (and he would immediately turtle, because why not). But more than likely, their enforcers fights our enforcer and that solves what exactly?

 

[ScaredStreit]

This is ********, and even more so today.

What happens when someone like Clutterbuck runs a guy? There's a 40% chance he gets jumped (and he would immediately turtle, because why not). But more than likely, their enforcers fights our enforcer and that solves what exactly?

Remember when our team was soft during Tavares's first few seasons here? It was a mystery was he was thrown around like a rag doll those years. Hell Okposo was the one who would step in and help out-everyone else just watched. It was PATHETIC.

Now would that happen today? No. Because of Martin/Clutterbuck/etc. Same thing happened with Crosby.

Why do you think Tavares/Crosby aren't knocked around as much as they used to be?

Oh and I never mentioned anything about enforcers, so I have no clue where you got that idea from.

Lastly you failed to answer my simple questions in this thread:

Considering that the players overwhelming vote that fighting should be in the NHL AND the fact that it's one of the most exciting aspects of hockey...why should fighting NOT be in the NHL?

 

[Renbarg]

Remember when our team was soft during Tavares's first few seasons here? It was a mystery was he was thrown around like a rag doll those years. Hell Okposo was the one who would step in and help out-everyone else just watched. It was PATHETIC.

Now would that happen today? No. Because of Martin/Clutterbuck/etc. Same thing happened with Crosby.

Why do you think Tavares/Crosby aren't knocked around as much as they used to be?

Oh and I never mentioned anything about enforcers, so I have no clue where you got that idea from.

Lastly you failed to answer my simple questions in this thread:

Considering that the players overwhelming vote that fighting should be in the NHL AND the fact that it's one of the most exciting aspects of hockey...why should fighting NOT be in the NHL?

"Because that's the way it has always been." That's the reason anytime progress is slow. Slowly but surely people will smarten up.

 

[ScaredStreit]

"Because that's the way it has always been." That's the reason anytime progress is slow. Slowly but surely people will smarten up.

Hey if you don't have an answer for my basic question that's fine, just own up to it.

I gave you reasons why I'm pro-fighting, whether you agree with them is fine. But at least I actually explained my position.

Smarten up.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

Love honest fights, I loved the Pens game. Fighting CAN serve a purpose.

That said, I hate staged fights unless it's DP getting his arse/head handed to him.

 

[scott99]

Don't get me wrong, I loved when Gillies pummeled O'Reilly, It showed the rest of the league the Islanders couldn't be pushed around in 1980, and led to them winning their first Cup. We also had Nystrom, Howatt, Lane and several others who would drop the gloves. BUT the fact that the Islanders/Bruins 1980 games happened in the playoffs, shows how different the game of hockey is now compared to then. How many fighting majors do you have in the playoffs nowadays ? Maybe 1 or 2 in the whole playoff year ? It's a different game, and it's not needed anymore. The days of needing Dave Semenko to ride shotgun on Gretzky's line is over. Now, the majority of fights in hockey is their goon against ours. As long as it's in the game, the NHL will be a joke compared to other leagues. It's one of the reasons why the NHL is behind the NFL, MLB, NBA And NASCAR.

 

[Renbarg]

Hey if you don't have an answer for my basic question that's fine, just own up to it.

I gave you reasons why I'm pro-fighting, whether you agree with them is fine. But at least I actually explained my position.

Smarten up.

Ok, here's my position.

1) First and foremost, I'm not anti-fighting. I'm anti-goonery. I feel the guy who plays 3 minutes a game, just to fight serves no purpose.

2) The goons, get almost no time in the playoffs, when the hockey actually matters. The game is about who scores more, when the coaches have their backs to the wall, they forget about all the "old-time" hockey ********, and send out a lineup that gets them more goals and keeps the other team from scoring.

3) There is no such thing as a deterrent factor. Why? Twofold. First, these guys are all huge and in shape, ultra-competitive, type A personalities, with huge egos (that's just the way most high-end athletes are, that's part of what it takes to be a pro-athlete). They're not scared of other guys, it goes against their nature. Secondly goons can't deter anyone because they're never on the ice, and when they are on the ice they can't (and don't) jump other non-fighters (it really happens so ****ing rarely). A random player is more likely to be a victim of a dirty/huge hit then a victim of a fist, how then does a the potential of that fist exactly deter him?

4) Tavares and Crosby are still knocked around plenty. They've also gotten older and smarter, they know where they can and can't go. On top of this both have a tendency to diva it up on the ice which, I hope, they are maturing out of. There is no doubt that in mind that Clutterbuck never even had one thought about who was on the Pens bench when he lines up Crosby, and if he knew it would cause someone to stupidly hunt him, he would make sure he hits Crosby.

 

[CaptDenisPotvin]

How i see it every team should have an "enforcer". The problem i have with the enforcers in recent years is they fight each other in staged fights....that guy should sit on your bench for when someone runs your star players, THAT player (the one that ran your player) should then have to deal with your enforcer. Doesnt matter who it is...if he doesnt want to fight the enforcer he probably wont throw another hit like that.

Thats how i think it should be, unfortunately fans now see it as a silly sideshow because of how staged it has become but it did and still does have a purpose in a hockey game IMO if its done correctly.

 

[scott99]

I still don't see what purpose it serves. The game has changed, it's all about skill now. Watching the Olympics and Stanley Cup Playoffs, is watching what hockey should be all about, the best teams win because of skill. I don't even know who the Ranger's and King's goons are, because they don't play in the playoffs. The World Junior Hockey Championships is some great hockey too, and no fighting.

 

[CaptDenisPotvin]

I still don't see what purpose it serves. The game has changed, it's all about skill now. Watching the Olympics and Stanley Cup Playoffs, is watching what hockey should be all about, the best teams win because of skill. I don't even know who the Ranger's and King's goons are, because they don't play in the playoffs. The World Junior Hockey Championships is some great hockey too, and no fighting.

I understand what your saying and your right about the product on the ice being much better without fighting....all im saying is if your the best player on the other team and im on defense and I don't have to answer for my actions...you bet your a** im gonna hit you high and hard all series because with you out of the series, my team has a better chance to win....the point of an enforcer would be so that doesn't happen. I deliver one high hit and then i have to fight some ape like the boogie man, maybe id rather just try to play hockey the rest of the series. Thats all im saying.