OHL Priority Draft Rule Changes???

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Sam14

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Mar 28, 2018
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The idea of creating fair and equitable rules for the ohl priority draft was originally posted on the LKs thread, but it received a fair amount of resistance.

I received a PM to post this on the general thread to allow for an open discussion amoung all ohl fans for or against the idea.

This is not directly a LKs issue and nor are they entirely at fault here, but they have benefited greatly by the current draft system. The LKs have signed a lot high calibre talented such as Matthew Tkachuk, Christian Dvorak, Alec Regula and Antonio Stranges to name a few, in lower rounds as a direct result of player agents using NCAA commitment as a tactic to manipulate the draft.

The following is by no means perfect or fool-proof. It likely needs some adjustment, but it represents a starting point for discussion amoung fans and ohl owners to possibly improve the ohl draft and bring a sense fairness and competitive balance for all 20 teams.

POSSIBLE DRAFT RULES???

1.1 A Canadian or American born player interested in playing in the OHL (CHL) must declare their intent by filing an eligibility form 7 days prior to the draft.

1.2 A signed eligibility form confirms that the player will play for the OHL team that draft him.

1.3 In the event, a drafted player decides to not report to pursue other options (e.g., USHL or NCAA hockey commitment), the player may at any time during the season sign with his drafted team. If the team is unable to sign the player, the team will receive an equivalent compensatory pick in the following OHL Priority Draft. The unsigned player can submit a letter to the “OHL Board of Governors” requesting the permission of the league to declare his draft eligibility the following year.

1.4 In the event, a drafted player indicates they will not report, but would like to play in the OHL, the team has until August 28th of the current year to complete a trade. The trade can include a 1st or 2nd player from the previous year’s draft and any agreed upon draft picks. If a suitable trade cannot be completed, the player is declared “defective” and forfeits all future CHL options and cannot re-apply to be reinstated in subsequent years. The team losing the drafted player receives an equivalent compensatory pick in the following OHL Draft.

1.5 If a Canadian or American born player does not declare their eligibility in their draft year, they cannot be signed as a free agent.
a. If however, they declared their eligibility, but went undrafted, that player can sign with any team of their choice.
b. In the event a undeclared and undrafted Free Agent expresses OHL interest any time after the draft, the player can apply to enter the league via a waiver claim based on reverse order standings. The team claiming the player can sign or trade the player.


1.6 If a player opts to not declare their eligibility, they cannot play in OHL that season, however, the player can declare themself eligible and re-enter the draft the following year.
 
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HockeyPops

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Aug 20, 2018
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Glad you posted this here.

I think before we even can start discussing possible rule changes, we need to discuss who wants the rules changed? Is it the OHL? The Owners (if so how many)? The Fans (if so how many)?

I believe it's important to understand who supports the current system and who would prefer a different system. If the majority support the current system then this can never go anywhere.
 

Tarantula

Hanging around the web
Aug 31, 2017
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I believe the only way to have this discussion is to understand it will be hypothetical only in nature, seriously doubt that any impetus to change the system would start from a forum board. Basically for fun only.
 
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AttackSound

Junior Hockey Fan Since Birth
Aug 25, 2016
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Before I state my opinion on this idea the only way, shape or form any changes would have to be approved by the league governors.

The idea of changing the rules to make an even playing field for all teams who pick kids who are on the fence on reporting to the team that drafts them is so something that could be changed in a swipe of a pen however, there is no rule nor will there ever be a change on players minds on where they want to report to.

That has always been in the power of the player and his agent. If there was any type of change that could be made to even the field of the teams or the players that would benefit the teams and the players then I think that each GM would've voted on and changed the ruling.

Unfortunately right now there's no ruling to my understanding on how far into the future that a GM can trade picks and therefore there is no ruling on player commitments, however their only power is that they can request a list of X number teams that they would choose to play for and have to declare an intention of committing.

Until the league changes drafting and commitment rules to even out the playing field for the smaller markets there will be no doubt in the fact that things will remain the same. However this is an will always be a hypothetical scenario and will never change realistically unless the majority of the governors agree to make changes in every team's favor.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Anything that is designed to weaken the league by keeping the best players out is a bad idea.

This isn't an OHL or CHL thing... this is about 14 and 15 year olds making a life changing decision. Circumstances change... kids decommit from schools all the time and then commit to other schools and nobody is talking about changing the rules about that.

The Rise of "De-Commitments" in NCAA Hockey Recruiting - Neutral Zone - Men's Hockey
 
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Firebrd828

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Oct 21, 2015
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Seems to me that the enormous number of commitments that NCAA schools take from kids who are as young as 14 or 15 is what leads to an increase in de-commitments. There aren't anywhere near enough spots on NCAA rosters to accommodate all the kids they take commitments from.

For years, the NCAA has slowly but surely been cutting into the CHL's stronghold on being the pipeline to the NHL. I think that if the CHL wants to mitigate that, they need to consider rules such as what is spelled out above.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Seems to me that the enormous number of commitments that NCAA schools take from kids who are as young as 14 or 15 is what leads to an increase in de-commitments. There aren't anywhere near enough spots on NCAA rosters to accommodate all the kids they take commitments from.

For years, the NCAA has slowly but surely been cutting into the CHL's stronghold on being the pipeline to the NHL. I think that if the CHL wants to mitigate that, they need to consider rules such as what is spelled out above.

How is forcing a kid to decide going to mitigate that? If anything it'll make it worse.
 

Firebrd828

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Oct 21, 2015
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How is forcing a kid to decide going to mitigate that? If anything it'll make it worse.
He's not forced to decide anything he wasn't deciding before. If he's going OHL, he can still go OHL. He can still have a commitment to a NCAA school. He still doesn't have to play for the OHL team that drafts him. He just can't use a smoke-and-mirrors NCAA commitment to manipulate his OHL destination.
 
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Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
He's not forced to decide anything he wasn't deciding before. If he's going OHL, he can still go OHL. He can still have a commitment to a NCAA school. He still doesn't have to play for the OHL team that drafts him. He just can't use a smoke-and-mirrors NCAA commitment to manipulate his OHL destination.
Rule 1.6 above.. kid decides he wants to go to college . 2nd year not getting playing time or is academically ineligible hes stuck... not drafted so he can't play. You're assuming every kid is manipulating however given the amount of kids that also decommit from schools to commit to another school I would argue that point.

Edit... actually as per rule 1.5 above no free agents allowed at all... horrible idea. So a kid is off the radar starts lighting it up in Butt-Throw Kansas.. sorry you didn't declare your eligibility in your draft year . You're SOL
 
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Firebrd828

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Oct 21, 2015
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Rule 1.6 above.. kid decides he wants to go to college . 2nd year not getting playing time or is academically ineligible hes stuck... not drafted so he can't play. You're assuming every kid is manipulating however given the amount of kids that also decommit from schools to commit to another school I would argue that point
I'm not necessarily advocating for the above system, only suggesting that SOMETHING should be done. Actually, I think just having two separate drafts, one for kids who have college commitments, and one for those that don't, would resolve the issue. Of course, this creates the problem of deciding how to determine which team picks in which position, because it hardly seems fair to give the last place team the first pick in both drafts.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
I'm not necessarily advocating for the above system, only suggesting that SOMETHING should be done. Actually, I think just having two separate drafts, one for kids who have college commitments, and one for those that don't, would resolve the issue. Of course, this creates the problem of deciding how to determine which team picks in which position, because it hardly seems fair to give the last place team the first pick in both drafts.
Again... 5 different champions and almost half of the teams in the league have made the finals once in the last 5 seasons..... there is nothing wrong in the league.
 

Firebrd828

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Oct 21, 2015
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Again... 5 different champions and almost half of the teams in the league have made the finals once in the last 5 seasons..... there is nothing wrong in the league.
That's your opinion, and that's fine. I don't share it. I see the league tracking toward becoming what the NBA has become...a league comprised of a few "superteams", and the rest just there to be cannibalized by those superteams. Makes for a boring product overall. I'd hate to see it get to that.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
That's your opinion, and that's fine. I don't share it. I see the league tracking toward becoming what the NBA has become...a league comprised of a few "superteams", and the rest just there to be cannibalized by those superteams. Makes for a boring product overall. I'd hate to see it get to that.

It's not an opinion that 9 out of 20 teams have made the finals in the last 5 years.. it's a fact.

At what point does management have to be held accountable for putting together a program that players want to play for? Plymouth didn't seem to have a problem
 

Sam14

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Mar 28, 2018
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Rule 1.6 above.. kid decides he wants to go to college . 2nd year not getting playing time or is academically ineligible hes stuck... not drafted so he can't play. You're assuming every kid is manipulating however given the amount of kids that also decommit from schools to commit to another school I would argue that point.

Edit... actually as per rule 1.5 above no free agents allowed at all... horrible idea. So a kid is off the radar starts lighting it up in Butt-Throw Kansas.. sorry you didn't declare your eligibility in your draft year . You're SOL

Thanks. A modification to rule 1.5 to accommodate those FA and solve that problem.

In a subsequent year, if a undrafted FA would like to play in the ohl, the player can re-enter the league via a waiver claim based on the standings in reverse order. The player claimed can be traded if the decides do so.
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Thanks. A modification to rule 1.5 to accommodate those FA and solve that problem.

In a subsequent year, if a undrafted FA would like to play in the ohl, the player can re-enter the league via a waiver claim based on the standings in reverse order. The player claimed can be traded if the decides do so.

So.... we have Jimmy the Scout who gets a tip about our hot shot from Kansas ... flys down there takes a look at the kid a few times and feels he will be a good fit for his team. Ooops sorry... even though you did all the leg work on finding this kid your work is for nothing.

New proposal. Make it illegal for teams to employ scouting staffs. All scouts will be employees of the league. There will be no draft. All players will be ranked 1 to 140 and will be assigned to a team based on that ranking. Last place team will get number 1 and so on. The playoffs will be eliminated and at seasons end everyone will get a nice ribbon and a juice box.
 
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Sam14

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Mar 28, 2018
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So.... we have Jimmy the Scout who gets a tip about our hot shot from Kansas ... flys down there takes a look at the kid a few times and feels he will be a good fit for his team. Ooops sorry... even though you did all the leg work on finding this kid your work is for nothing,

You make a valid point about 1.5 so the rule has been amended to accommodate those players for that possible circumstance.

However, I’m not entirely sure why LK fans are so opposed to a change in the draft system that would level the playing field, a little bit, between the ohl small market and the big market teams.

As an example, it was terrible for the league when Sudbury had to draft Levin when there were players like Mike McLeod, Ryan Tippett and Gabe Vallardi available to them? Quinton Byfield is an example of how a draft is set up to function.

Then there is the major problem of ncaa committed players manipulating the draft to create further chaos on draft day. How unfair was it that Antonio Stranges ended up with London (2nd rd pick) and not with one of last year’s bottom 5 teams?

And how blatant was this post-draft comment in the LONDON FREE PRESS?
Most scouting services had the slick centre ranked in the Top 5 of draft eligible players some as high as No. 2. “But the Knights was really the only team I was going to play for,” Stranges said.

League stats, across the board, shows that ohl attendance is on a decline, except London and Niagara. If small market teams are not given the same opportunity to sign high end players, fans will become increasingly disinterested in their local team, than stop attending games and eventually those teams will disappear.
 
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Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
You make a valid point about 1.5 so the rule has been amended to accommodate those players for that possible circumstance.

However, I’m not entirely sure why LK fans are so opposed to a change in the draft system that would level the playing field, a little bit, between the ohl small market and the big market teams.

As an example, it was terrible for the league when Sudbury had to draft Levin when there were players like Mike McLeod, Ryan Tippett and Gabe Vallardi available to them? Quinton Byfield is an example of how a draft is set up to function.

Then there is the major problem of ncaa committed players manipulating the draft to create further chaos on draft day. How unfair was it that Antonio Stranges ended up with London (2nd rd pick) and not with one of last year’s bottom 5 teams?

And how blatant was this post-draft comment in the LONDON FREE PRESS?
Most scouting services had the slick centre ranked in the Top 5 of draft eligible players some as high as No. 2. “But the Knights was really the only team I was going to play for,” Stranges said.

League stats, across the board, shows that ohl attendance is on a decline, except London and Niagara. If small market teams are not given the same opportunity to sign high end players, fans will become increasingly disinterested in their local team, than stop attending games and eventually those teams will disappear.

You haven't accommodated for anything. You've essentially made the scouting process useless and weakened the league because of it.

Again.. last 5 years 5 different winners 9 different finalists. There is no issue with parity. Where the issue lies is with team management. Why does Sault Ste Marie seem to have no issue getting players to report but Sudbury does? Why was Plymouth always in the mix and why is Flint not?

You continue to fail to ignore the fact that this is not a junior hockey thing. Kids change their commitment from one school to another a heck of a lot more than they jump to the OHL. They are kids and their needs change. Do some play the game? Sure... but changing the rule because of 1 or 2 out of 400 is akin to putting a label on a blow dryer warning people to not use it in the bathtub.
 

Sam14

Registered User
Mar 28, 2018
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You haven't accommodated for anything. You've essentially made the scouting process useless and weakened the league because of it.

Again.. last 5 years 5 different winners 9 different finalists. There is no issue with parity. Where the issue lies is with team management. Why does Sault Ste Marie seem to have no issue getting players to report but Sudbury does? Why was Plymouth always in the mix and why is Flint not?

You continue to fail to ignore the fact that this is not a junior hockey thing. Kids change their commitment from one school to another a heck of a lot more than they jump to the OHL. They are kids and their needs change. Do some play the game? Sure... but changing the rule because of 1 or 2 out of 400 is akin to putting a label on a blow dryer warning people to not use it in the bathtub.

Quite the contrary, in fact. The importance to scouting will grow exponentially in this system. With players declared and available to all teams, there is no guessing or draft games being played, failed scouting and drafting will expose those teams who management team has their team buried at the bottom of the standings consistently. There would no more excuses.

If you think there are only 1 or 2 players a year using the ncaa card you better check your sources. The Antonio Stranges draft manipulation was disgraceful.

You are correct in saying that kids change their mind, but not sure how this system limits them? The player always has the choice as to which league they want to play in. If they want to play in the ohl they enter the draft. If they want to play ncaa they sign with the university. That seems straight forward!
 

Otto

Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Quite the contrary, in fact. The importance to scouting will grow exponentially in this system. With players declared and available to all teams, there is no guessing or draft games being played, failed scouting and drafting will expose those teams who management team has their team buried at the bottom of the standings consistently. There would no more excuses.

If you think there are only 1 or 2 players a year using the ncaa card you better check your sources. The Antonio Stranges draft manipulation was disgraceful.

You are correct in saying that kids change their mind, but not sure how this system limits them? The player always has the choice as to which league they want to play in. If they want to play in the ohl they enter the draft. If they want to play ncaa they sign with the university. That seems straight forward!
The bad managed teams are already exposed... again 9 different teams in the finals in the last 5 seasons... that's parity.

I've explained how scouting becomes useless.. but I'll try again.. sometimes players are late bloomers sometimes they play in areas that are off the beaten path.. in your scenario there is no point checking out these players.. and thus the league is weakened.

And again you are assuming that EVERY player who decommits is manipulating the system.. strange then how kids who decommit one school to commit to another are simply changing their minds, but if they decide to play in the OHL they are cheaters
 

member 71782

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Round and round we go. This discussion takes place every year with a new thread under a different title.

Here's last year's version.

Defected Players

There is a level playing field or at least as level as it can be considering the fact that geography, municipal/educational amenities, population size, media coverage etc all play a role in the desirability of each team.

Forcing someone with an option to accept what they perceive to be an undesirable choice will only further deter them from choosing that option. If there is enough pushback against those forced "options" you will see more and more high level talent leave thus creating a higher end league out of a competitive league elsewhere making it the more desirable option right from the start.

Now if the owners who have millions in investments on the line can accept the current situation why do fans have an issue? They have money to lose while fans have the opportunity to boo or cheer depending on the results.

Here's the thing, fans are complaining because they want to see the best possible product on the ice for their money and entertainment. They are complaining about kids, a lot who have aspirations of making it big want to have the best possible opportunity to realize those dreams and aspirations. You want yours so you are complaining about them wanting theirs.

The difference?

At the end of the game, season etc you as a fan get to go home and continue on with your life while the "choices" you want to force on these kids will affect the rest of their lives.

Now let's say you get what you wanted, what then?

Forced choices will likely lead to a lot more high end players opting out instead of opting in. That leads to a lower quality product on the ice. Are you going to pay to watch a lower quality product? That likely leads to some teams folding or moving trying to remain afloat which leads to even more disgruntled fans. If this starts to happen regularly the league starts to become unstable which will turn off even more kids thus watering down the talent pool even more and potentially the league itself folding.

Another downside is the development of players who may not have ever had a chance at a pro career but playing with higher level talent helped to develop them and gave them the tools and exposure they needed to make a career out of hockey that they otherwise never would have had. I'm sure they would all love to see that taken away from them as well.

A little extreme sounding?

How many teams over the years have moved or folded when there were very few who played the NCAA card and the OHL/CHL was the only realistic option to a pro career?

There are changes that can be made to change the compensation rules that I think would improve how the league functions with some maybe even having a side effect that helps to limit some of what others are complaining about but in the end, in a me first world that is only becoming more and more centred on personal choices and options you cannot improve a situation by limiting the option you provide.

There are also initiatives that can be taken to improve the overall perception of the league that makes the attraction a league first choice but forced "options" isn't one of them.

My posts from ithe last thread having to do with this topic.

Any rule changes that appear to limit a player's option would be bad for the league as a whole. The goal is to improve the level of talent not deter it. Once you start to deter it the the entire league pays a price.

There are two areas that can be changed/improved when dealing with this issue, compensation and recruiting.

Compensation

I don't think it should be on the league to compensate a team for a defected player who will report to another team. Eliminate the double dipping.

If a player has absolutely no interest in the league then a team can declare that player defected, allow them from the start of training camp right up until the trade deadline to try to deal the player. If there is no deal to be hade then relinquish his rights and be eligible for compensation from the league the way it currently stands, a first round pick one spot after the pick was made no higher than the fifth pick plus a second round pick at the end of the second round if it was a top four pick.

If a deal is made then the acquiring team must include a first round pick in one of the next two drafts plus whatever other compensation the teams work out, including allowing for players to be included in these deals as well.

Recruitment

It is up to teams to improve their recruitment but the CHL and the three member leagues need to work together as well.

Yearly annual meetings between the top agencies and representatives from all teams to work on general issues collectively to see where expectations are moving towards.

Other annual meetings with other interested parties to improve the overall direction of the league and benefits to assist the players.

The three leagues plus representatives need to get out and interact with the various players/feeder leagues and hold information sessions, development camps etc before their draft year. Introduce these kids to the league in a more face to face way, league sponsored hockey camps/summer leagues etc. Make sure events don't compromise a player's NCAA eligibility but also make sure the benefits of the league are clearly highlighted.

It's not just about each team making themselves desirable but the entire CHL being more desirable.

Any rule changes that appear to limit a player's option would be bad for the league as a whole. The goal is to improve the level of talent not deter it. Once you start to deter it the the entire league pays a price.

There are two areas that can be changed/improved when dealing with this issue, compensation and recruiting.

Compensation

I don't think it should be on the league to compensate a team for a defected player who will report to another team. Eliminate the double dipping.

If a player has absolutely no interest in the league then a team can declare that player defected, allow them from the start of training camp right up until the trade deadline to try to deal the player. If there is no deal to be hade then relinquish his rights and be eligible for compensation from the league the way it currently stands, a first round pick one spot after the pick was made no higher than the fifth pick plus a second round pick at the end of the second round if it was a top four pick.

If a deal is made then the acquiring team must include a first round pick in one of the next two drafts plus whatever other compensation the teams work out, including allowing for players to be included in these deals as well.

Recruitment

It is up to teams to improve their recruitment but the CHL and the three member leagues need to work together as well.

Yearly annual meetings between the top agencies and representatives from all teams to work on general issues collectively to see where expectations are moving towards.

Other annual meetings with other interested parties to improve the overall direction of the league and benefits to assist the players.

The three leagues plus representatives need to get out and interact with the various players/feeder leagues and hold information sessions, development camps etc before their draft year. Introduce these kids to the league in a more face to face way, league sponsored hockey camps/summer leagues etc. Make sure events don't compromise a player's NCAA eligibility but also make sure the benefits of the league are clearly highlighted.

It's not just about each team making themselves desirable but the entire CHL being more desirable.
 
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