OHL Expansion ?

[OHLFan90]

While thats what theyve been saying the attendance has been its been in actuality way lower than what the Battalion were getting, theyve been tarping off sections in the end zone.

I have a buddy who goes a few times a month and he said he is lucky if there are 750 people there

 

[Living Vicariously]

Milton and North Oakville are right now, and are going to continue to grow like crazy over the next few years population-wise. The thought of a team somewhere in the intersection of Milton-Oakville-Burlington may not be unrealistic. Gauging the fan base for an OHL franchise based on Tier 2 or Jr. B attendance should not be a game breaker and I believe it's an inaccurate benchmark for the ability of a centre to support an OHL franchise. I lived 5 years in Orangeville and attended a Crushers game once, but drove an hour to Guelph on numerous occasions to watch OHL. It's a marketing thing for sure, but also a quality product that is the draw. ECHL and AHL teams are affiliated with the pros, but it's just not the same allure as NHL. I think the big draw for OHL is the promise of seeing kids playing today that just might take that next step to the bigs - and they're pushing hard to get there. Hard to pinpoint exactly what I'm getting at, but the intrigue level for me just seems to be at that top-level-not yet-pro point. Just my two cents.....

 

[Sidekick]

I must be in the minority of ppl who think the OHL is well attended, not because of "the future NHL stars" but because of the geography/ the town vs. town rivalries that exist. I'm not complaining, I'm just surprised!

But serious thought experiment question. Would the OHL draw as well, worse or better if all the same cities had teams but they were AHL teams? What about ECHL teams?

Geography is a large reason why I can't understand why Erie fights so hard to keep their team. I mean wouldn't an AHL team be better in that market? Cleveland, Rochester, WBS, Hershey...oodles of in-state, and close market competitors...right now they have, umm...St.Catharines...kinda...in another conference.
(Obviously, in this scenario an AHL team would commit to playing in Erie before the Otters up and left).

I dunno, just rambling late night thoughts....

 

[jason2020]

Milton and North Oakville are right now, and are going to continue to grow like crazy over the next few years population-wise. The thought of a team somewhere in the intersection of Milton-Oakville-Burlington may not be unrealistic. Gauging the fan base for an OHL franchise based on Tier 2 or Jr. B attendance should not be a game breaker and I believe it's an inaccurate benchmark for the ability of a centre to support an OHL franchise. I lived 5 years in Orangeville and attended a Crushers game once, but drove an hour to Guelph on numerous occasions to watch OHL. It's a marketing thing for sure, but also a quality product that is the draw. ECHL and AHL teams are affiliated with the pros, but it's just not the same allure as NHL. I think the big draw for OHL is the promise of seeing kids playing today that just might take that next step to the bigs - and they're pushing hard to get there. Hard to pinpoint exactly what I'm getting at, but the intrigue level for me just seems to be at that top-level-not yet-pro point. Just my two cents.....

Can't see them wanting to take the risk of another expansion team could a team move there maybe but expansion I think chances are slim to none.

 

[jason2020]

Hamilton technically would be the easiest place to put a team, if a team had to move their tomorrow. They have Copps Coliseum, they have a largely populated city, they have hockey history. However there's tons wrong with a team moving to Hamilton. The OHL has failed there twice, the arena is much to big for even AHL hockey, the area doesn't even really support the Bulldogs that well. Those are just a few unsearched thoughts.

Cornwall has an arena very close to ready, technically I see know reason why a team couldn't play there tomorrow. But the Cornwall Civic Complex isn't exactly ideal for an OHL team as it sits, capacity wise its fine, but amenities need upgrades, dressing room, ect ect. Although as I said as it sits now it would be doable in the short term.

Thunder Bay other then logistical problems would be ideal, the Fort Williams Gardens holds just under 5,000 people, plus standing room I believe. Its an OHL calibre rink, renovated in 1995, could use more to become more OHL ready, however it could definitely be home to an OHL team tomorrow while upgrades where considered or completed.

The McIntyre Community arena in Timmins, it holds only around 1300-1500 people, while it has an excellent feel for junior hockey its much to small for the OHL. 20 years ago it would be ideal, now not even close.

Chatham and Woodstock don't have rinks.

Buffalo, New York or a place like Syracuse, New York may also be considered, with Buffalo being the more likely. Keep in mind both cities have or had OJHL teams in the past. An OHL team would likely start off playing at the First Niagara Centre, but like we saw with the 67's the past two years, OHL teams in NHL rinks just don't work.

Would their be interest in putting a team in the Scarborough/Pickering area.. The Generals could object, the Wexford Raiders had success for a long time, but had to cease operations about 5/6 years ago. No arena presently available. Unlikely, but just spit balling

The Town of Markham wanted to build an NHL rink in hopes of bringing an NHL team to town, would they consider building a rink for an OHL team ? Would they even Draw ? The Markham Waxers where a proud Tier two Junior Organization for many years, from 1930 until 2012 to be exact. Many NHLer's went through Markham, Steve Thomas, Adam Oates just off the top of my head. They had an ideal Tier 2 Rink, in the Markham Centennial Centre which held just under 2500. They also had a fairly successful team for a number of years, yet still.. know one attended games.

North York, with the North York Rangers, Toronto Canadiens, Toronto Lake Shore Patriots, all playing within 15/20 minutes of one another, would the area be able to support one OHL team. The Herb Carnegie arena hosted the Toronto Marlboros back in the day, but is by know means an OHL calibre rink.

Newmarket, the Ray Twinney Sports Complex was where the Newmarket Saints AHL club played and the Newmarket Royals OHL club played. It holds just under 4000 people, but, it needs upgrades for an OHL team. The club wasn't successful in its brief stay in the OHL back in the early 90's, but if the rink did get upgrades the growing population in the area could probably support an OHL team. Granted I say this without any research of the area done or looking into finer details.

I think there would be to much risk have 3 or 4 more teams in the Gta.

 

[tjd92295]

Heard a little insider info through the grapevine that Wheatfield/Niagara Falls,NY is building an arena to house an OHL team. The prospective owner had previously tried to buy Erie.

 

[CharlieGirl]

Heard a little insider info through the grapevine that Wheatfield/Niagara Falls,NY is building an arena to house an OHL team. The prospective owner had previously tried to buy Erie.

That makes a great deal of sense on a number of levels. Instant rivalry with both Niagara and Erie, an easy stop for a roadie to Erie, and locks up New York State for the OHL in terms of future drafts. I'm a little surprised that the Q hasn't tried to add a team in upstate NY, so that the state becomes their territory.

 

[SeniorJuniorFan]

Actually, the Q did try upstate New York for several less than successful weeks. Have a look at this from Hockeydb.com for the season 1984-85:


Plattsburgh Pioneers 17 0 16 0 1 1 56 185 0 Beaudry, Methot {+} Out of Playoffs

Notes: Plattsburgh folded after 3 months without winning a single game. All statistics were wiped from the records.


I believe it is the Commissioner's secret wish to eventually have an OHL all American 5 team division like the WHL. If so, he will find a way to make it happen.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Not sure if it will be an expansion but more likelyhood a relocation of a team.

 

[h10*]

Actually, the Q did try upstate New York for several less than successful weeks. Have a look at this from Hockeydb.com for the season 1984-85:


Plattsburgh Pioneers 17 0 16 0 1 1 56 185 0 Beaudry, Methot {+} Out of Playoffs

Notes: Plattsburgh folded after 3 months without winning a single game. All statistics were wiped from the records.


I believe it is the Commissioner's secret wish to eventually have an OHL all American 5 team division like the WHL. If so, he will find a way to make it happen.

Would be nice for the travel arraignments. Niagara, although not located in America, seems like a good fit to be in that divison too. Add a team from NY and place them in divison with Flint, Erie, Niagara, and Saginaw. And in the same conference with Guelph, London, Kitchener, Windsor and Sarnia

 

[buzzworthy]

It is too bad that the new Harbor Center that Pegula built in Buffalo wasn't a bit bigger. Buffalo is a hockey hungry town, and I am certain that they would have supported an OHL city. Call the team the Junior Sabres, and they would come in droves.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Would be nice for the travel arraignments. Niagara, although not located in America, seems like a good fit to be in that divison too. Add a team from NY and place them in divison with Flint, Erie, Niagara, and Saginaw. And in the same conference with Guelph, London, Kitchener, Windsor and Sarnia

Niagara Falls/Wheatfield New York!

 

[Whalers Fan]

Would be nice for the travel arraignments. Niagara, although not located in America, seems like a good fit to be in that divison too. Add a team from NY and place them in divison with Flint, Erie, Niagara, and Saginaw. And in the same conference with Guelph, London, Kitchener, Windsor and Sarnia

From a travel perspective, it makes more sense to keep Sarnia and Windsor in the same division as Saginaw and Flint.

 

[digiblader]

Not sure if it will be an expansion but more likelyhood a relocation of a team.

Likely one of the Peterborough Petes, Sudbury Wolves, Sarnia Sting or a Michigan team.. with Peterborough and Sudbury the most likely due to their arena issues and lack of progress on new arenas.

 

[CharlieGirl]

From a travel perspective, it makes more sense to keep Sarnia and Windsor in the same division as Saginaw and Flint.

Definitely. You could easily make a division out of Erie, Wheatfield, Niagara (ON), Hamilton and either Guelph or Mississauga. Realignment all over the place would be needed, but that would make geographical sense.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Definitely. You could easily make a division out of Erie, Wheatfield, Niagara (ON), Hamilton and either Guelph or Mississauga. Realignment all over the place would be needed, but that would make geographical sense.

One aspect I would like is for the Rangers to do the same as the Attack and Erie...
and thats for the Rangers to play a doubleheader in Erie. Would attract a lot more fans to take roadtrips there!

 

[vouve]

(successful) expansion only possible if there is a second team at the old london gardens.
and to renovate that barn you would need brewsters millions money.

playing ohl hockey in chatham or stratford or cambridge would be cool, just because of their venues.
old-timey hockey is pretty great.

 

[pucksniper]

I think 20 teams is enough more would dilute the product too much.

That is a accurate statement.

 

[EvenSteven]

It's obvious that expanding would dilute the talent. But his league draws from the most dense population bases of the three CHL leagues. If the WHL can find enough talent to put 22 teams on the ice, then surely the OHL can do the same.

However, from this fan's standpoint, 20 teams is enough. We only have a 68 game schedule. More teams mans playing the teams in your conference less which means less games against rivals. As a fan of a team in the western conference, sure, it's a bit of a novelty to see the teams from the east roll in once a year, but these games are almost always games without any life and emotion. There just isn't the same atmosphere playing teams that aren't in your conference. As far as I'm concerned, we currently have 10 home games on the schedule every year that I do not look forward to and am more likely to sell off my tickets for because i know what type of game I'm going to get.

I understand that the reason the league sees to it that every team visits every building at least once a year is important so every fan base has a chance to see every team every year. That way, the Eric Lindros' and Connor McDavid's of the world can be seen live at least once a year by every fan base. That's all well and fine but there are no guarantees that those players will dress for every road game vs the other conference. For example, when Kingston visited Kitchener a couple weeks ago, Lawson Crouse was a scratch. So we didn't get to see him play.

But to be honest, with the way most regular season games are televised today along with all the televised all-star games, prospects games, Canada-Russia challenges, and WJC, we see these guys all the time on TV. Therefore, it didn't matter that we in Kitchener missed an opportunity to see Crouse live.

This league isn't the way it was years ago where if you didn't see the league's star player live in your building you didn't see him at all. Perhaps it is time to refrain from playing the teams in the other conference at all until the league final. It would mean way more games vs your hated rivals which would mean more exciting hockey every night.

Then, maybe, I'd be board with expansion.

 

[bobber]

I think there are franchises now struggling with attendance and having players not want to report for various reasons. It will only water the league down and lesson the value of the product. It's suppose to be a developmental league for pro hockey and having a bunch more Teir Two or Junior B players would not add interest.

 

[h10*]

I think there are franchises now struggling with attendance and having players not want to report for various reasons. It will only water the league down and lesson the value of the product. It's suppose to be a developmental league for pro hockey and having a bunch more Teir Two or Junior B players would not add interest.

There is about 12-15 teams that struggle with attendance if their team struggles or even if their team is .500. Some even struggle when their team is successful. 2 more cities/teams means 2 more places that could potentially struggle with attendance.
Also the product is solid right now. But every year there are about 4-6 teams that are in full rebuild and another 6-8 who are just decent. Most years there are just 3-4 teams that going into March are the only teams with a chance. This year is one of the better in awhile where there are 8 teams that kinda have a chance. But most years there is little parity. Those two teams added are likely to finish bottom of the barrel and each year you'll still have only a few top teams and then the rest of the bunch.
Yes whl has 22 teams but the product in ohl is better in my view. And part of that is having only 20 teams

 

[knowescape]

Heard a little insider info through the grapevine that Wheatfield/Niagara Falls,NY is building an arena to house an OHL team. The prospective owner had previously tried to buy Erie.

Where is it being built and who is the rumored owner?

 

[knowescape]

Heard a little insider info through the grapevine that Wheatfield/Niagara Falls,NY is building an arena to house an OHL team. The prospective owner had previously tried to buy Erie.

I just combed the ether and I could only find two even remotely possible references to this:

1) Downtown Niagara Falls, NY near the Seneca Casino. This would serve as a 6-8,000 seat venue for entertainment in the summer tourist months and a hockey team in the winter.

http://niagarafallsupclose.com/nfr-exploring-construction-niagara-falls-arena/

2) Summit Park Mall, Wheatfield, NY. This was touted as an everything to everyone sporting complex linked to a shopping mall and included basketball courts, football field, fountain of youth and unicorn petting zoo.

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-reg...-complex-proposed-at-wheatfield-mall-20151113

Don't get me wrong, I think the greater Buffalo area is ripe for a relocated OHL team but there is no facility approved yet, much less being built. This prospect is 2017-18 at the earliest unless there is a derelict facility that can be improved "enough" for a year or so ala Jack Gatecliff in St. Catharines.

 

[stormfanone]

There is about 12-15 teams that struggle with attendance if their team struggles or even if their team is .500. Some even struggle when their team is successful. 2 more cities/teams means 2 more places that could potentially struggle with attendance.
Also the product is solid right now. But every year there are about 4-6 teams that are in full rebuild and another 6-8 who are just decent. Most years there are just 3-4 teams that going into March are the only teams with a chance. This year is one of the better in awhile where there are 8 teams that kinda have a chance. But most years there is little parity. Those two teams added are likely to finish bottom of the barrel and each year you'll still have only a few top teams and then the rest of the bunch.
Yes whl has 22 teams but the product in ohl is better in my view. And part of that is having only 20 teams

If this is the case, why has the west won so many cups.

 

[stormfanone]

One aspect I would like is for the Rangers to do the same as the Attack and Erie...
and thats for the Rangers to play a doubleheader in Erie. Would attract a lot more fans to take roadtrips there!

Take the Storm out of the division with your Rangers and Nights and
Attack. Now way. Are you grazy.Sorry ,this was met forCharlie girl.