Speculation: Offseason coaching thread: Should they stay or should they go?

[Zirakzigil]

Well this is going to be talked about, whether some posters want to or not. Lets try and keep all the Sully talk here. As well as any other coaching movement.

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[Zirakzigil]

We should probably be separating some of the questions.

CAN he be fired? Yes.
SHOULD he be fired? Yes.
WILL he be fired? No.
DOES that make me mad? Yes.

"If you don't have a Sully you're looking for a Sully."

No, in fact a Sully is on my list of things I don't want anywhere near this team. When I have bonafide proof of a guy who has represented failure at all levels for roughly six straight years all while being given keys to the GM kingdom and every single toy he wanted.....I don't want anyone / anything like that near my team.

Without a Sully I'm looking for whatever the hell represents the OPPOSITE. Maybe I settle somewhere in the middle.

Sometimes I wonder if his downfall was being given too much of what he wanted. But we have time for that hindsight when he's gone. Right now it's annoyance and frustration of wanting the dude gone yesteryear.

it would take a real power play from dubas and we all know our power play is an affront to god

Here’s the thing. His extension kicks in next season. FSG will be loathe to pay that out. Also, the worse the team gets, the higher the draft pick. That’s how we built the Cup teams.

They aren't going to fire Sullivan but if they did... does anyone have any notion of how the contract situation would work? This seems to be a somewhat surprisingly grey area with little in the way of solid information.

No idea

Appears to be what the two parties agreed upon when first signing contract?

It's possible we pay fully, don't pay if he gets a job, or don't pay at all

There's no rule

Well the rule is - if the contract is signed then he gets paid out no matter what. But - and Devils fan here to say this - is if the Pens want to move on (and Sully agrees) that another team could just pick up the contract. And i think the Devils would be very much interested. So I don't think the contract thing is much issue for the Pens, it's more do they want to part ways. He'd be picked up rather quickly.

So if we win tonight we will be one point less then last season.
That's an abject failure when last season was considered a failure.

The only way Sullivan isn't behind that bench next year is if he dies at home in the off-season.

He's so entrenched that if he died in the building they would stuff him and prop him up behind the bench and guys like nieto and Harkins will still get ten minutes a night somehow

If he didn't get fired after the play-in meltdown, then he's not going to get fired.

Play in meltdown

Three in a row to lose to NYR

The isles fiasco

Missing two straight years

In terms of "most deserving of getting fired", I'd say the times that happened were:

1. After the play-in loss to the Habs, especially after being swept by the Islanders the year before.
2. After the end of season collapse in 2022-2023 that caused them to miss the playoffs.

I think them finishing the year on a hot run and barely missing the playoffs probably saves him for next year, but it's asinine that he survived not being fired in 2020 and 2023.

Yeah, when Mario just kinda said "meh" after the Penguins got swept by the Isles and then lost the play-in against the Habs, I just kinda checked out. Knew the era was over for all intents and purposes at that point. Sullivan's inability or refusal to deal with the Isles' forecheck then his overuse of JJ-Schultz against the Habs were the nail in the coffin for me, and if ownership and the FO didn't care enough to change things at that point, then f*** it.

I still think it's f***ing insane that Sully has avoided any legitimate, let alone harsh criticism during the last six-ish years. Baffling. Spanning multiple ownership groups, FO execs, etc. Sully's just cruised along without a care in the world for his job security.

It amazes me how some people (on other platforms mostly) will blame anyone and anything, but not Sullivan. That's some serious brainwashing/propaganda done by this organization/media.

It’s not really brainwashing when said people are just lying to themselves because they can’t handle the idea that a coach isn’t some big wise daddy figure.

Like it’s not stealing if you willingly give your money to the snake oil salesman, it’s just dumb and sad.

Yup, I cannot agree more. That Habs series still pisses me off. The Habs were so mediocre that season. It was a joke that they were even that play-in game...the Sabres and Devils had games in hand on them and could have easily caught them.

You can accept them losing to the Caps in 2018, since the Caps went on to win it all. You can accept one debacle in the first round against the Islanders. But not two. And not that Habs series. And how they played against that Chicago team last season that WANTED to lose might have been the ultimate embarrassment.

But I will believe it (a firing) when I see it when it comes to a Boston-based corporation firing a Boston guy. I don't think it is ever going to happen. For this poll, I voted a DUI/etc. because it would take the woke crowd to come down on him publicly for anything to change. He needs to basically Harvey Weinstein the situation. And even then, I am sure Sean McDonagh would find something nice to say about his precious Mike Sullivan on ABC/ESPN.

I am resigned to the fact that I will be seeing the coach behind the bench next season and beyond. And, if it is true that the big four core guys all love him (Karlsson we don't know for sure, but it does not really matter), well then at least they stepped up their game down the stretch. Where was this earlier? I don't know. But I truly believe that the Guentzel trade shook the team up, shook up the room and woke them out of their slump. More of this is required. It is up to Kyle Dubas to do as much as the ownership lets him. Changes on the coaching staff are essential at this point. Changes to roster are coming for sure. We need to continue down this path of retooling and getting younger because that helped down the stretch. More tough decisions must be made, starting in goal in all likelihood.

I find it interesting that it seems Devils fans want Sullivan. I mean, it makes sense. They have former Pens in the organization. Oh, dare to dream. If only Sullivan was from Paramus, not Massachusetts.

Lose the play-in
Blow 3-1 series lead
Get Swept
Miss playoffs by 1 point
Miss playoffs by 3 points

Sullivan putting together the infinity stones of team collapses. He just need to add that 3-0 series collapse to his resume now.

I get back to back Cups buys a ton of runway, but eventually you just need to make a change if the results are this consistently underwhelming. Even if ownership loves him they should have the good sense to "promote" him to head of hockey operations so they can get a fresh voice and a new set of ideas on the bench.

I think that with a little bit of patience we can achieve great things. Sullivan brought us a couple of cups and I'm positive he can repeat it with help of Dubas. Rutherford made a couple of mistakes but we're righting the ship as we speak. Sid and Malkin are aging like fine wine and the future is bright.

 

[molon labe]

Honestly this should be the only thread open until it happens.

There isn't a single roster move that will make this team a contender again with Sullivan at the helm. Period.

If he stays - who the hell cares what we ice. It's beyond hyperbole at this point.

If he goes - let's argue about which players make the most sense for the new look Pens. [Though in all honesty that's what a few of us have tried doing already with talks of goalie/defense/forward shakeups].

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Fire everyone

 

[JRS91]

Fire the entire coaching staff.

Gallant in my opinion is the best coach for this team, but I'd also take Berube. The Penguins are in a transitional phase and need a coach that's willing to coach and develop some young players.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Fire the entire coaching staff.

Gallant in my opinion is the best coach for this team, but I'd also take Berube. The Penguins are in a transitional phase and need a coach that's willing to coach and develop some young players.

Id be willing to try Gallant. I am lukewarm on Dubas actually firing Sully though. But if Keefe gets let go by the Leafs..... All bets are off then.

I would be interested to see what Bruce could do with Letang and Karlsson too. Screw the playoffs if it makes them PPG players and gives Sid another Ross and Rocket.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Sully speaks eloquently, and says a lot, using appropriate jargon. He makes it sound like he's in complete control, and knows exactly what's needed to win games.

He constantly blames execution for losses, but doesn't go as far as blaming the players overall.

Anybody know Saul Goodman? There you have it .

Unlike Therrien who was clearly done with the team here:

 

[Andy99]

Should is different than will, but this front office should be embarrassed if he stays…

 

[BusinessGoose]

Should is different than will, but this front office should be embarrassed if he stays…

And then they WILL be embarrassed again next year lol

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They *need* to nuke the coaching staff and continue to retool/replace the scouting depts. They won't do either though, imo.

 

[Gurglesons]

We really need a poll? lol

 

[Sideline]

I voted Sullivan stays not because I think he should, but because I think it will happen.

 

[Andy99]

I voted Sullivan stays not because I think he should, but because I think it will happen.

The poll says “should” buddy, what you think should happen…you’re making your own poll lol

 

[molon labe]

I voted Sullivan stays not because I think he should, but because I think it will happen.

The poll says “should” buddy, what you think should happen…you’re making your own poll lol

Clearly on his own effing program over there.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I would personally clean house.

I don't think they will. Not after this finish.

My guess is Sullivan returns. Reirden and Vellucci don't have their contracts renewed. Hennes is reassigned to other duties in the organization.

Three new assistants, one of whom has a power play background, and one of whom - perhaps the same coach - could conceivably be a midseason Sullivan replacement.

 

[Icarium]

They should not only go but be punished with watching the Penguins power play on a loop. A taste of their own medicine,.

 

[Andy99]

They should not only go but be punished with watching the Penguins power play on a loop. A taste of their own medicine,.

Definitely lol…and every 3v3 OT the team had

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They could have hit the absolute rock bottom and stayed there after the TDL and they still wouldn't have fired Sullivan. Pretty confident of that. It's why I didn't mind the little run they had.

 

[molon labe]

Walk briskly in front of them in the office, then toss a puck backwards - written on the puck is 'you're fired'.

Definitely lol…and every 3v3 OT the team had

I love hearing that a team, who had 15 percent of their games end in OT - do not practice 3 on 3. That same team ices Eller in the most important win scenario of their season and Jeff Carter before that.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They could have hit the absolute rock bottom and stayed there after the TDL and they still wouldn't have fired Sullivan. Pretty confident of that. It's why I didn't mind the little run they had.

Maybe. But that was the only way there was any possibility of it, imo.

The run just cemented that Sully's gonna finish his contract though--which may have happened regardless, but I feel pretty confident (and bummed) about now.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Reirden should be f***ing toast for sure.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

What should happen is they should clean house.

What will happen is that they will fire the assistants and Sully will stay until at least 20-30 games into next season.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Maybe. But that was the only way there was any possibility of it, imo.

The run just cemented that Sully's gonna finish his contract though--which may have happened regardless, but I feel pretty confident (and bummed) about now.

I'd rather have something tangible to actually watch games for. It was SOMETHING. Hanging your hat on the likes of this do-nothing ownership group and the nutless wonder GM who probably isn't even allowed to maybe possibly any-day-now fire the head coach after many, many years of the team punting on perfectly acceptable and downright necessary times to do so is a fool's errand.

They were never gonna do it. They made their mind up on that years ago. Besides this team is so soaked in it's own ego that signing an extension years in advance only to terminate it before it even kicked in would constitute admitting to a mistake. And that's not how we do things in Pittsburgh.

 

[chethejet]

No question Reirden is gone and changes to the system has to occur. But bringing back Sullivan without him changing his coaching will not work. But FSG isn't eating 16 million here and Dubas has to make changes that in effect force Sullivans hand. Bigger younger and play with more grit has to be the move here. Yes Acciari fourth line guy if healthy is fine. Poulin playing has to happen. LD has to be more physical third pairing. Not sure Ludvig is that guy. Bigger LW first or third line depending on DOC lines up next year. Smith gone in a trade at draft day. Cap more important here to add.

 

[SomeDude]

It should be scorched earth but it will just be Reirden and possibly Velluccci both letting their contracts expire.

I’m sure the 4th set of assistant coaches surely will not make Sullivan look like an idiot.