Prospect Info: Official Penguins Prospects Thread
- Thread starter ColePens
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Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
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Would be nice, but I don't think it's essential. Orpik is a bruiser, and Letang is nasty to play against, and so is Engelland. In that regard, we probably have more overall team toughness on defense than we did when we won the Cup in 2009.
I also think Bortuzzo will become more nasty and physical, as he continues to become more comfortable at the NHL level.
Yes it would be great if Ruopp could be the next Engelland, but that will be minimum 3-4 years out. In the meantime, we have Derek Engelland! Seriously, Engelland has been one of our best and most consistent players over last year and the beginning of this one. He is signed cheaply, but he will get paid when his next contract is up. Luckily for us, however, Engo should still be in his prime, yet Martin & Orpik will likely both be gone, and their vacated spots taken over by young guys on ELC's (Dumoulin, Harrington, Morrow, etc). Until Engo's play starts to decline, I'll be happy to keep him on our team due to his unique skillset and versatility. He has even looked good on the PK, has impressive skating, and actually hits the net with his shots.
Regarding future "bruisers" on our D-corps, I think it's clear that Despres can be a physical presence if he remains with our club long-term, and I would also add Samuelsson to that list, who looks to have added a real mean-streak to his game. I really like our mix on the blue-line. We just have to wait for these guys to develop and hope Letang stays healthy to spearhead that group, because as much as I like our overall depth, I don't see a #1 Norris calibre Dman in our group.
Tender Rip
Wears long pants
What? There is Martin there who is pretty soff and on the team for other reasons, but other than that every single one of our D-men are tough to play. A lot of humanity there also after the additions of Despres and Bortuzzo.
We have just seen three games in a row where the above has been a great contributing reason to us keeping it tight around our goalie and mostly nullified three forechecks that really came at our D-men behind our net. I cannot think of a time where the need for a bruiser seemed less predominant?
....and thanks Burgs
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JTG
Registered User
- Sep 30, 2007
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What? There is Martin there who is pretty soff and on the team for other reasons, but other than that every single one of our D-men are tough to play. A lot of humanity there also after the additions of Despres and Bortuzzo.
We have just seen three games in a row where the above has been a great contributing reason to us keeping it tight around our goalie and mostly nullified three forechecks that really came at our D-men behind our net. I cannot think of a time where the need for a bruiser seemed less predominant?
....and thanks Burgs
Because though we have a bunch of guys who aren't soft by any stretch of the imagination, I don't think we have anyone on this roster, including Orpik these days, who can pull one of those shifts off that Orpik had in Detroit a few years ago. No guys shy away from contact, but I don't think any of them welcome it how Orpik did in our Cup runs. The kind of physicality where guys get scared to touch pucks for fear that they are going to get dropped.
What's the Brian Burke word? Truculence?
Oh well, we can't have it all, JTG. We've got one Orpik, and I can't think of too many teams who have multiple guys like that, while also having the overall mobility and offense from the back-end. There are lots of different formulas for winning and it doesn't only have to be one way (Detroit and Chicago being recent examples of teams who don't have more than maybe one guy who would be considered a bruiser on the back end).
The thing is, we have so much defensive depth, we can't have guys who don't play a complete game or only do one thing well. In hindsight, you could say it's a shame we didn't draft Trouba instead of Pouliot. Oh well, what's done is done, and I think DP will be a good player. But I don't want some thug like Erskine or Sutton on defense who can't do anything other than hit and occasionally get suspended. If we want the next Erik Gubranson or whatever, we'll probably have to draft him in the 1st round this year -- and I think that would make everyone go nuts if we take another Dman.
JTG
Registered User
- Sep 30, 2007
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My point is, Orpik isn't the same Orpik, and he isn't going to get more physical with age. It'd be nice to find a defensive prospect who is in that same mold, as we don't have one of them, unless we want to wait half a decade for Ruopp
Trouba is essentially what I'm looking for. A defenseman who strikes the fear of God into the other team and has momentum changing qualities.
I have no problem drafting defensemen if they net us wingers. We'll see what this current NHL ready crop does for us.
Tender Rip
Wears long pants
Can't we agree, that with the current composition on D, truculence there is rather low on the order of options to improve our team?
If we were talking truculence as a need, I would say that getting a top6 forward who has that - and enough skill to actually be a top6 forward - would be more useful.
And whereas I surely wouldn't whine if a guy like Regher arrived as a rental, I would also say that the biggest lack on our blueline right now is a player who can run a PP. Outside of a veteran rental, I think we are likely going to have to wait for our own defenders to develop before we get that again though.
I hear you, and I would love to have a Trouba or Gudbranson in the system, but the good news short-term is that Brooks seems the healthiest and best he has looked in some time, and with the style that he plays, the shortened season may really benefit him. I still think he can "bring it" physically, and I'll be happy if he saves some of that for the playoffs. Most importantly, as long as he's picking his spots smartly and not costing us goals against by making the big hit, I'll be happy.
Regarding the longer-term and the draft, I do really think we will still go BPA, and if that's a Dman, so be it. As long as the Pens start to move some bodies off the defense for help up front by trade over the course of the season or in the summer, I'll be more than happy if they take a Dman, if he has legitimate top-2 upside, and brings a unique element or package that none of our other prospects bring -- such as that physicality, or blend of size/physicality or physicality/skill.
Should I assume, from your words, that you would be more inclined to trade Orpik versus Martin in the summer? A very good argument could be made for keeping each one and trading the other, so it will be very interesting to see what happens.
The Old Master
come and take it.
it all go's back to who/what we can get! .... i would rather trade high priced old for low priced youth. and we all ready have some of the youth waiting to play
I agree to a large extent. But nonetheless, we may still have to make a decision, especially if we feel like we want to/have to retain one of these guys for next season's run.
Based on pure asset value alone, we would be best to move Brooks this summer, because he will have 1 year before he becomes a UFA, whereas Martin has 2 years before he becomes a UFA. So Brooks' value could sharpley decine the longer we hold on to him.
Looking at our depth chart, I see a lot of guys who can step in and play the left side, which Brooks does: Despres (if we keep him) will be ready by next year, and I believe Harrington and Dumoulin would be, as well. Add Niskanen to the left-side mix, and potentially Martin moving over to the left-side, as well. For example:
Despres/Dumoulin-Letang
Martin/Orpik-Bortuzzo
Niskanen-Engelland
And Harrington will be knocking on the door, and guys like Morrow or Samuelsson might be ready for call-ups to the NHL to replace and injured guy. And if we had to slash payroll to accommodate an Iginla/Perry type player, then we could see both of those guys get moved.
Black Label
Registered User
Just to add on to what Burgs said about Sundqvist:
I saw him when he came up to play for his big club Skellefteå and he has been looking decent. He hasn't had a huge role on the team which is to be expected since Skellefteå is in first place and they have a lot more experienced players.
He hasn't looked out of place really when I've watched him. Obviously there is a small sample size for him with the big club this season. He uses his size well but has some issues playing against bigger guys. He needs to fill out his frame to really live up to his potential. He is about 190 lbs. or thereabouts now but I think he would look good around 200 or so since he has a big frame (6'3").
His two-way game has looked solid in the sheltered minutes he was getting. He really seems to be a boom or bust prospect at this point. I think he will either fill out his frame nicely and be a solid two-way forward in the NHL or he will never even make it to the NHL. He plays with a lot of passion and fire in his game. I don't really see a lot of top 6 potential with him but he may prove me wrong. If he converts to wing then maybe he would be able to cut it in the top 6 as a big power forward with a mean streak. I would really like to see what he could do with a full season with top 6 minutes in the SEL but that obviously is a season or two away.
I saw him when he came up to play for his big club Skellefteå and he has been looking decent. He hasn't had a huge role on the team which is to be expected since Skellefteå is in first place and they have a lot more experienced players.
He hasn't looked out of place really when I've watched him. Obviously there is a small sample size for him with the big club this season. He uses his size well but has some issues playing against bigger guys. He needs to fill out his frame to really live up to his potential. He is about 190 lbs. or thereabouts now but I think he would look good around 200 or so since he has a big frame (6'3").
His two-way game has looked solid in the sheltered minutes he was getting. He really seems to be a boom or bust prospect at this point. I think he will either fill out his frame nicely and be a solid two-way forward in the NHL or he will never even make it to the NHL. He plays with a lot of passion and fire in his game. I don't really see a lot of top 6 potential with him but he may prove me wrong. If he converts to wing then maybe he would be able to cut it in the top 6 as a big power forward with a mean streak. I would really like to see what he could do with a full season with top 6 minutes in the SEL but that obviously is a season or two away.
MrBurghundy
I may be older but I'm never forgetting #47 & #41
How's his shot and offensive instincts? Could he ever end up being a 3rd wheel type of player like Kunitz is?
If he has a good shot and uses it, being a RHS he might not be a bad guy to have around.
Black Label
Registered User
He has more offensive upside than Kunitz does from what I can tell. I guess a good comparison would be a hybrid between Patrick Sharp's offensive skills/defensive work ethic and Kunitz's physical play. He is also bigger than either of those players as well. He still needs a lot of polishing though. At the best he is still maybe 3 years away from playing in the NHL. He will need at least a season or two in the AHL after another season or two in the SEL.
Friend from Sweden mentioned sundqvist as a "Patrick berglund lite" but also said he's really raw. Echoed the whole "he could never make it to the nhl but could also end up as a really good 3c or even in the top 7" that you said. Seem like a good comparison?
Black Label
Registered User
Berglund was more hyped up coming into the draft than Sundqvist. If Sundqvist can fill out his frame as much as Berglund I think he will actually be a better player than Berglund though. I would say his offensive upside is probably about the same as Berglund's was (but Berglund never really lived up to his full potential). But he definitely plays with more of an edge than Berglund. He also reminded me of Malkin a couple times when he got pushed around and lost his temper and took a stupid penalty due to lack of discipline.
Tender Rip
Wears long pants
Strange, I thought he would go all out and tattoo ******* onto the object of his displeasure - with big crude letters - like his alter ego
.
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
Zlobin with 3 helpers last night in a big 8-1 Val D'or win
Anthony Matha 2013 draft eligible with another 2g last night now has 42 on the year!
Anthony Matha 2013 draft eligible with another 2g last night now has 42 on the year!
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
Do they play together most nights? Mantha's a big left-winger (left shot), right? Does that mean Zlobin usually plays right wing, or does he play the off-wing mostly?
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
Kid is ****ing flying and he is projected between 15-20. Not sure if he slips, come draft day anything is possible and there are always surprises
No not really, they're on different lines but sometimes see pp time together. Mantha is usually playing with Hynes and Henley
Yeah, I'm not sure that he's going to slip at all. I actually think he will raise his stock, and/or some team will have him even higher and grab him. He's got a unique package of size/skill.
But this is definitely a draft where, if we don't make a trade using one or more of our prospect, I wouldn't mind seeing the Pens package their 1st + a guy like Olli Maatta (or a veteran like Orpik/Martin) and move up 10+ spots and be in the position to grab one of the higher end players.
BeauKnows19
Registered User
According to Pouliots twitter, he's making a visit to Pittsburgh.
@dpouliot51
Off to Pittsburgh for a few days.
@dpouliot51
Off to Pittsburgh for a few days.
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