Official Expansion Draft Protection Thread (Howard protected over Mrazek)

[HockeyinHD]

Plenty of people said the thought process was dumb whether it materialized into anything or not.

And those people were being silly. There was never any downside to exposing Mrazek, so getting mad about his exposure was just wasting calories. Howling about the 'thought process' behind a decision that was never going to have any real costs or consequences was just ginning up a reason to uncoil the scroll of Holland taunts and trot them around the yard again.

People were complaining that a giant nothingburger was overcooked.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Not being claimed is a bigger middle finger from the rest of the league. He just got told in no uncertain terms that no one wants him and he has less trade value than Nosek. If he doesn't find the fire in his game he's not going to be dealt for a low pick, he's going to be either out of the league or taking a massive pay cut.

He just got a big reality check, if he doesn't turn it around after that he's not a player you want anyway.

Bingo.

This whole charade was most probably a motivational ploy from the Wings, directed at Mrazek. Either it'll work and he'll improve, or it won't and he'll spend the next 3+ years trying to rebuild his pro career... somewhere else.

Mrazek obviously has the talent to be a very good NHL goalie. You do not dominate the AHL and then dominate the NHL without that kind talent. He has a year to get it together, if he wants to do it here.

 

[waltdetroit]

Las Vegas can still sign UFA's, so maybe they have some other "cards up their sleeve"

 

[Pavels Dog]

Not being claimed is a bigger middle finger from the rest of the league. He just got told in no uncertain terms that no one wants him and he has less trade value than Nosek. If he doesn't find the fire in his game he's not going to be dealt for a low pick, he's going to be either out of the league or taking a massive pay cut.

He just got a big reality check, if he doesn't turn it around after that he's not a player you want anyway.

Yep imo this was a great move by Holland. Call it risky, but you gotta be willing to take some risks every now and then. Next contract negotiation (if Mrazek is still a Red Wing) Holland can point to this and greatly lower Mrazek's leverage. And now Mrazek has to face the reality of the NHL, which is that potential doesn't matter half as much as actual results. Time to put up or shut up.

 

[izlez]

Yeah except the relationship with Mrazek is likely over. If he had issues with management before the draft, being left unprotected is a big middle finger.

He won't have any fire in his game for this organization and will likely be dealt for a low pick during the summer. So we've lost our only goaltending prospect for likely nothing.

While some clubs tried negotiating with Vegas to protect players, Holland came out on record saying he wasn't interested in trades to protect any players exposed in the draft.

I'm not saying he could protect everyone but at least make the players feel like you're actively trying to keep them. If I'm a player and I wasn't protected, tough that's the sport-and I'm likely not a top player, but if my GM comes out and says we're not interested even in fielding low picks to keep me, well then why the **** am I on this team?

It's one thing to pretend to show you care, it's another to come out blatantly and say you don't.

So no we didn't come out pretty good.

And doesn't all of this apply to Howard (and every other player left unprotected)?

One goalie was going to feel disrespected/have their trade value lowered no matter what. Holland made a decision to go with what he thought was the better goalie, which is all he can do.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Las Vegas can still sign UFA's, so maybe they have some other "cards up their sleeve"

Please expand on your thoughts.

 

[Dotter]

Yeah except the relationship with Mrazek is likely over. If he had issues with management before the draft, being left unprotected is a big middle finger.

He won't have any fire in his game for this organization and will likely be dealt for a low pick during the summer. So we've lost our only goaltending prospect for likely nothing.

While some clubs tried negotiating with Vegas to protect players, Holland came out on record saying he wasn't interested in trades to protect any players exposed in the draft.

I'm not saying he could protect everyone but at least make the players feel like you're actively trying to keep them. If I'm a player and I wasn't protected, tough that's the sport-and I'm likely not a top player, but if my GM comes out and says we're not interested even in fielding low picks to keep me, well then why the **** am I on this team?

It's one thing to pretend to show you care, it's another to come out blatantly and say you don't.

Elite players play like they have something to prove. If that's not Mrazek, then he's already a bust as a top 10 NHL starter... and grossly overpaid none-the-less.

So no we didn't come out pretty good.

We absolutely did come out of this very good. We lost nothing more than an AHL/NHL tweener.

So what if an overpaid sup-par goalie who was moved to 3rd string may have gotten his feelings hurt. Suck it up buttercup.

 

[Dotter]

One goalie was going to feel disrespected/have their trade value lowered no matter what. Holland made a decision to go with what he thought was the better goalie, which is all he can do.

This. And Jimmy Howard has been a team player and a great soldier. He puts on his jersey and shows a level of class we wish the other goalie was mature enough to display.

Howard being the better goalie, better leader, and the better team player should be held to a higher account over the other guy.

 

[Mister Ed]

Not being claimed is a bigger middle finger from the rest of the league. He just got told in no uncertain terms that no one wants him and he has less trade value than Nosek. If he doesn't find the fire in his game he's not going to be dealt for a low pick, he's going to be either out of the league or taking a massive pay cut.

He just got a big reality check, if he doesn't turn it around after that he's not a player you want anyway.

That's exactly my sentiment. It's a business and in this business, you have to perform to have value.

 

[mouser]

Engelland is UFA. If they wanted him, couldn't they have picked another player off the Calgary list, then signed him as UFA come July 1st?

Speculation that Engelland may be Vegas' first captain. And they already signed him to an extension, so that was probably negotiated during the FA window. Not like they passed over much value on the Calgary list.

Las Vegas can still sign UFA's, so maybe they have some other "cards up their sleeve"

On July 1st like everyone else.

 

[Boomhower]

True, but what seems to be new is this propensity to take a dump on our guys publically. Started with senile Jimmy D's comments about Mantha, then Blash on Mantha again last season, now Mrazek. Both of these guys were seen as future core pieces for the Wings not that long ago.

I have no problem with a coach motivating a player by calling them out once in a while, but what benefit is going to come from the last few days with Mrazek?

And I couldn't agree more... off-ice issues melt away when the player is performing well on the ice. Hasek in Buffalo is a good example.

The problem seems to be here that the young players are expected to "get with the program", to "fit into the system". So, what happens if Larkin steps out of line? AA? Do they get el dumpo as well? Who will you have left? Helm and Abby and goalless Riley Sheahan that "play the game the right way"?


A lot of Nashville's success this year was in allowing PK to be PK within the Nashville system. Maybe we should do the same with Mantha and Mrazek here.

He is a 25 year old man getting paid 4M dollars. He should not be treated with kid gloves.

He is a goalie. Stop the puck and control rebounds.
Your 'system' talk is hilarious. Are you implying Detroit's system is for goalies to let pucks in and give out rebounds?
Because if so, Mrazek executed perfectly last season...

And I love how you imply that Detroit only caters to "good character guys" like Helm, Sheahan and Abdelkader. 2 of those guys were left exposed just like Mrazek!
Luckily they are big boys without fragile egos and don't need forum posters worrying about their feelings or whether they may sabotage the team and their own career.

 

[waltdetroit]

Please expand on your thoughts.

Las Vegas was able to talk to UFA's before the expansion draft and get an idea of what the UFA was expecting. Maybe they have decided to go after a UFA after the X-draft because it would have counted as their pick. I don't follow UFA's to know who that might be. I believe they can still trade their picked players, just not back to the original team - maybe some movement during the draft. Ex.Maybe someone would give a 1st for Methot.

 

[Boomhower]

Yeah except the relationship with Mrazek is likely over. If he had issues with management before the draft, being left unprotected is a big middle finger.

He won't have any fire in his game for this organization and will likely be dealt for a low pick during the summer. So we've lost our only goaltending prospect for likely nothing.

While some clubs tried negotiating with Vegas to protect players, Holland came out on record saying he wasn't interested in trades to protect any players exposed in the draft.

I'm not saying he could protect everyone but at least make the players feel like you're actively trying to keep them. If I'm a player and I wasn't protected, tough that's the sport-and I'm likely not a top player, but if my GM comes out and says we're not interested even in fielding low picks to keep me, well then why the **** am I on this team?

It's one thing to pretend to show you care, it's another to come out blatantly and say you don't.

For the record, Holland was dead right. End of story.

Now you can go about worrying about the feelings of these grown men/millionaires.
But I think Holland can get back to the business of running a 750 million dollar organization and preparing for the most important Wings draft since the 80's.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Holland took a calculated risk, didn't lose any draft picks and only lost a AHL caliber player. Save the Mrazek fiasco, I would say he came out of the expansion draft pretty good.

I'm still not sure which calculated risk Holland was making by exposing Mrazek but I don't know enough about Nosek to mourn his loss. It does seem fairly minor.

It doesn't change what they did to the relationship with Mrazek and how uncharacteristic it was for the franchise to suddenly let a players attitude become the story. The Wings have had a good look at the kid for 6 years now so either they misread Mrazek, he started throwing tantrums as a 25 year old, or his attitude problems were overblown but they let that story lead the day.

And yes these are professional athletes getting paid millions of dollars but people who think feelings don't matter are kidding themselves. One of the constants mentioned about the Wings is how well they treat their players. That didn't happen with Mrazek and it's odd.

 

[Dotter]

I'm still not sure which calculated risk Holland was making by exposing Mrazek but I don't know enough about Nosek to mourn his loss. It does seem fairly minor.

It doesn't change what they did to the relationship with Mrazek and how uncharacteristic it was for the franchise to suddenly let a players attitude become the story. The Wings have had a good look at the kid for 6 years now so either they misread Mrazek, he started throwing tantrums as a 25 year old, or his attitude problems were overblown but they let that story lead the day.

And yes these are professional athletes getting paid millions of dollars but people who think feelings don't matter are kidding themselves. One of the constants mentioned about the Wings is how well they treat their players. That didn't happen with Mrazek and it's odd.

Many times things go way over peoples' heads and they don't know the big picture behind it because they are not there, or involved. On the surface it might seem easy to judge based on what they see on the surface, and react without knowing the true facts behind the true situation.

That is exactly the situation here in this Mrazek incident. At the end of the day Wings lost an AHL/NHL tweener and, perhaps, at the same time lit a fire under a questionable goalies' arse. Mrazek can make a decision of working hard, bouncing back and proving he is the goalie he is paid to be, or he can bust even further and have an extremely short NHL future.

The choice is ultimately his. But one fact nobody can deny, Mrazek was one of the worse starters in the NHL and nobody in the NHL wanted him at $4 million per year. Only he can change that.

 

[Fynn]

It isn't the GM's job to publicly shame a player. If a coach wants to play mind games, that's what coaches do. It isn't what GMs do. So basically Holland was going above Blashill and also giving him the middle finger saying I don't think you handled this well. Holland also cut off his nose to spite his face. He put the attitude problem story out there and now his value is less than zero. If Mrazek was given the expectation that Howard would be moved and the job was his after proving himself, and Howard was continually in the shadows, it's not going to instill confidence in a guy and gives Mrazek zero motivation. Another young player destroyed by Holland.

 

[Ezekial]

Lol that's rich buddy, Holland ruined Mrazek by giving him every opportunity to succeed.

 

[Boomhower]

It isn't the GM's job to publicly shame a player. If a coach wants to play mind games, that's what coaches do. It isn't what GMs do. So basically Holland was going above Blashill and also giving him the middle finger saying I don't think you handled this well. Holland also cut off his nose to spite his face. He put the attitude problem story out there and now his value is less than zero. If Mrazek was given the expectation that Howard would be moved and the job was his after proving himself, and Howard was continually in the shadows, it's not going to instill confidence in a guy and gives Mrazek zero motivation. Another young player destroyed by Holland.

You are making stuff up.
Who said Holland promised Mrazek anything?
Seriously Mrazek said: "Holland promised me if I had one good year, he would trade Howard away to ensure I would be nice and comfortable and could have down years."
-Great story, but Please feel free to provide that link. I missed it.

Also where did Holland shame Mrazek?
Holland said he had no comment on the protected list. And never made a single negative comment about Mrazek. Media simply threw out some speculation.
-Please provide that Holland negative quote aswel and I'll apologize. But again I missed that.

 

[Dotter]

It isn't the GM's job to publicly shame a player. If a coach wants to play mind games, that's what coaches do. It isn't what GMs do. So basically Holland was going above Blashill and also giving him the middle finger saying I don't think you handled this well. Holland also cut off his nose to spite his face. He put the attitude problem story out there and now his value is less than zero. If Mrazek was given the expectation that Howard would be moved and the job was his after proving himself, and Howard was continually in the shadows, it's not going to instill confidence in a guy and gives Mrazek zero motivation. Another young player destroyed by Holland.

So much wrong with this thought process I don't even know where to begin. People here consider Yzerman a good GM, yet he sent Drouin down to the AHL, he failed to report so they suspended him to send a message. They didn't coddle him like you want Kenny Holland to do to a 25 year old who gets paid $4 million per year.

All Mrazek had to do was outplay Jimmy Howard. That's all! He failed to do that and reportedly whined about it.

Additionally, Mrazek has 4 millions why he should be motivated. If proving everyone wrong isn't enough elite level motivation in itself, the Benjamin's should be.

But coddling him is the GM's job, apparently.


Let me paint a picture:
{Kenny strokes his fingers through Mrazek's hair as he tells him everything is going to be okay and holds him softly}

 

[Nut Upstrom]

It isn't the GM's job to publicly shame a player. If a coach wants to play mind games, that's what coaches do. It isn't what GMs do. So basically Holland was going above Blashill and also giving him the middle finger saying I don't think you handled this well. Holland also cut off his nose to spite his face. He put the attitude problem story out there and now his value is less than zero. If Mrazek was given the expectation that Howard would be moved and the job was his after proving himself, and Howard was continually in the shadows, it's not going to instill confidence in a guy and gives Mrazek zero motivation. Another young player destroyed by Holland.

If anything printed recently about Mrazek is more shaming to him than the numbers he put up last season then I don't think he's got what it takes to be an NHL goalie.
If he comes to camp next season and his focus is on stoking his anger over the "character assassination" and the idea that Ken Holland stood in the shadows like some sinister maestro conducting the local media to swoop down on poor Petr then he probably isn't going to improve much on those numbers and prove that he belongs in the NHL.

I'm sorry, but I don't see mind games here. I see GM who very recently displayed an 8 million dollar show of faith in Petr and half-way through that deal Petr has not played like a goalie who makes that kind of salary and was essentially given the keys to the crease.
So, Kenny does not protect him and the media, surprised as we all were by this, starts speculating as to why - that is their job after all.
Is it in any way likely that a writer might have come up with Petr's poor performance and poor attitude as attributing factors without having Kenny Holland in his ear conducting him/her to write such things?

 

[Boomhower]

Does anyone remember the late '80's and early '90's when Goalies would get run out of town every other year?

 

[waltdetroit]

I believe that Holland has been more lenient to Mzazek than most GM's

If you took a poll of all the GM's (in any sport) who had a 2nd year player demand that his competition be traded (if what was reported is true), how many GM's would have shown him the door?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Many times things go way over peoples' heads and they don't know the big picture behind it because they are not there, or involved. On the surface it might seem easy to judge based on what they see on the surface, and react without knowing the true facts behind the true situation.

That is exactly the situation here in this Mrazek incident. At the end of the day Wings lost an AHL/NHL tweener and, perhaps, at the same time lit a fire under a questionable goalies' arse. Mrazek can make a decision of working hard, bouncing back and proving he is the goalie he is paid to be, or he can bust even further and have an extremely short NHL future.

The choice is ultimately his. But one fact nobody can deny, Mrazek was one of the worse starters in the NHL and nobody in the NHL wanted him at $4 million per year. Only he can change that.

I don't disagree about not knowing the whole situation but that also applies to 90% of the things we discuss here.

It just seemed an odd handling of the situation. One quote from holland could've ended the spreading rumors about Mrazeks character but he remained silent. Mantha is another young player they've handled in an usual fashion for the Red Wings.

Hopefully it does motivate Mrazek to show Holland was foolish to expose him and Vegas was foolish not to take him.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I believe that Holland has been more lenient to Mzazek than most GM's

If you took a poll of all the GM's (in any sport) who had a 2nd year player demand that his competition be traded (if what was reported is true), how many GM's would have shown him the door?

Where was that reported?

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Where was that reported?

Yea, I hadn't heard of that. Kind of a big deal if true.