GDT: Official 2013 Draft Day thread IV: Oilers take Nurse @7. MacT adds all the picks

[BestWestern]

Except its a fact, the best example someone can give me is from Detroit before the KHL was even around.

The KHL is a bit of a hindrance to players coming over. However, I think pre-KHL players had a slightly bigger obstacle to over come. It's called the "Iron Curtain". Didn't stop teams (like Detroit) from taking flyers on kids, hoping they'd come over.

Give me a chance at Petr Klima over a surefire Cam Abney any day of the week

 

[Everest]

That's just it, and for the record I don't mind Russian picks in general. I actually liked the Zharkov pick last year because of his upside, but given the makeup of our team with our 5 best players under the age of 23. Wouldn't it have made sense to go after guys who may be able to become solid 3rd and 4th liners with those later picks? Instead of taking a guy drafted 1st overall and most likely a 3rd line center we won't be able to keep due to finances. You know like how can the KHL let Shepshyev walk after being picked at 1. I just can't ever see it happening.

Fair enough but look at some of the CANADIAN players weve drafted the last 3 or 4 years who seemed like OBVIOUS grinders/depth players and they can't even show progress at the AHL level.

Not a terrible idea to try a Russian...or three...who have already shown progress in the KHL. Which (IMO) is a BETTER league than the AHL...in some ways at least.

 

[BestWestern]

Except its a fact, the best example someone can give me is from Detroit before the KHL was even around.

List of Russians to have won the Stanley Cup since 2003

Sergei Brylin
Oleg Tverdovsky
(2 Czechoslovakians from 03 as well)
Dmitry Afanasnekov
Fedotenko (Ukranian, but played for USSR)
Khabi
Tverdovsky (again)
Bryzgalov
Datsyuk
Malkin
Voynov

if you want only post KHL players, thats kind of hard because we have a ridiculously small sample size. KHL was founded in 2008, giving us 4 drafts for a Russian player (picked with a mid round pick) to have developed and made it on to a Stanley Cup winning roster. Kind of unreasonable. But wait, I found one! Slava Voynov was drafted in 2008. I'm sure if you put the "russian SC champs / total russians drafted after round 1" from drafts 2008-2012 you'd actually get a bigger number than "Canadian SC champs / total canadians drafted after round 1"

 

[Tarus]

If the argument is that Russian players are risky to draft because they have more options for high paying hockey jobs, it's a fair comment and a reality of the modern day NHL/KHL dynamic born out by the 22 total Russian NHL players in the league last year. Not everyone seeks the very best competition, dreams of Stanley cups, enjoys the North American lifestyle with it's taxes, or want to live on the other side of the world from their families.

It's not like we haven't seen these types of decisions from Canadians and americans either, whether it's to avoid fame, or move closer to families, etc. The lower down the pay scale and ice time pecking order, the more attractive the KHL option will be for Russian players as lifestyle and money become far more attractive overseas, it's as simple as that really.

If the argument is that teams can't win in the NHL because they are Russian... you're on your own on that one, and a recommendation of a little less Coaches corner in your hockey-centric viewing habits is in order as well.

 

[Raab]

Fair enough but look at some of the CANADIAN players weve drafted the last 3 or 4 years who seemed like OBVIOUS grinders/depth players and they can't even show progress at the AHL level.

Not a terrible idea to try a Russian...or three...who have already shown progress in the KHL. Which (IMO) is a BETTER league than the AHL...in some ways at least.

Maybe the problem is the guy making the picks? I mean how can not one forward pick not turn out? Especially when you consider how high we've been picking. I still don't understand the Abney pick, anyone who's watched him for 15 minutes could see he had no skill with the puck. To say we should start picking Russians now in later rounds because we haven't found the right player is incomprehensible to me, and totally unacceptable.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Maybe the problem is the guy making the picks? I mean how can not one forward pick not turn out? Especially when you consider how high we've been picking. I still don't understand the Abney pick, anyone who's watched him for 15 minutes could see he had no skill with the puck. To say we should start picking Russians now in later rounds because we haven't found the right player is incomprehensible to me, and totally unacceptable.

Abney wasnt drafted for his skill with the puck.

Lets be serious for a minute.

 

[Raab]

If the argument is that Russian players are risky to draft because they have more options for high paying hockey jobs, it's a fair comment and a reality of the modern day NHL/KHL dynamic born out by the 22 total Russian NHL players in the league last year. Not everyone seeks the very best competition, dreams of Stanley cups, enjoys the North American lifestyle with it's taxes, or want to live on the other side of the world from their families.

It's not like we haven't seen these types of decisions from Canadians and americans either, whether it's to avoid fame, or move closer to families, etc. The lower down the pay scale and ice time pecking order, the more attractive the KHL option will be for Russian players as lifestyle and money become far more attractive overseas, it's as simple as that really.

If the argument is that teams can't win in the NHL because they are Russian... you're on your own on that one, and a recommendation of a little less Coaches corner in your hockey-centric viewing habits is in order as well.

The argument is that Stanley Cup champions usually don't have lesser talented Russians on their roster. I wasn't sure why that was until PavelDatsyuk brought up the point earlier about KHL money. Which makes sense. So what I'm saying, I guess is that we wasted the picks considering we need bottom 9 forwards and most teams that win the cup don't have russians in that spot because they can't afford to keep them from going back to the KHL. Hence why I feel the two Russians picks were bad, and just added to the total let down of the draft for me.

 

[Raab]

Abney wasnt drafted for his skill with the puck.

Lets be serious for a minute.

Well I think he was drafted as a "potential pwf" based on his skating which is actually half decent. It's to bad his hands and IQ aren't on the same level.

 

[Raab]

List of Russians to have won the Stanley Cup since 2003

Sergei Brylin
Oleg Tverdovsky
(2 Czechoslovakians from 03 as well)
Dmitry Afanasnekov
Fedotenko (Ukranian, but played for USSR)
Khabi
Tverdovsky (again)
Bryzgalov
Datsyuk
Malkin
Voynov

if you want only post KHL players, thats kind of hard because we have a ridiculously small sample size. KHL was founded in 2008, giving us 4 drafts for a Russian player (picked with a mid round pick) to have developed and made it on to a Stanley Cup winning roster. Kind of unreasonable. But wait, I found one! Slava Voynov was drafted in 2008. I'm sure if you put the "russian SC champs / total russians drafted after round 1" from drafts 2008-2012 you'd actually get a bigger number than "Canadian SC champs / total canadians drafted after round 1"

So one a year with 3 of them being All stars when they won the cup, and one on the brink.

 

[I am the Liquor]

Well I think he was drafted as a "potential pwf" based on his skating which is actually half decent. It's to bad his hands and IQ aren't on the same level.

He was drafted to crack heads and be the next Dave Semenko.

 

[Everest]

So one a year with 3 of them being All stars when they won the cup, and one on the brink.

Brylin was a cog on some excellent checking lines.

Fedotenko is 100% Ukranian...but...he is a notorious playoff horse and as a Russian-Canadian I reserve the right to keep the baltics`as Russian `satellites`.

 

[Bangers]

Brylin was a cog on some excellent checking lines.

Fedotenko is 100% Ukranian...but...he is a notorious playoff horse and as a Russian-Canadian I reserve the right to keep the baltics`as Russian `satellites`.

You might want to keep that opinion under wraps considering the number of Ukrainian Canadians in Alberta

 

[Raab]

He was drafted to crack heads and be the next Dave Semenko.

If that's the case why take him in the 3rd? You can get an enforcer at almost anytime for a 5th or 6th round pick.

 

[Everest]

You might want to keep that opinion under wraps considering the number of Ukrainian Canadians in Alberta

Meh. I'm pretty sure the Baltic state my ancestors came from doesn't even exist anymore.

It's all Russia.

Frick...Czech's and Slovak's are too.

 

[Tarus]

The argument is that Stanley Cup champions usually don't have lesser talented Russians on their roster. I wasn't sure why that was until PavelDatsyuk brought up the point earlier about KHL money. Which makes sense. So what I'm saying, I guess is that we wasted the picks considering we need bottom 9 forwards and most teams that win the cup don't have russians in that spot because they can't afford to keep them from going back to the KHL. Hence why I feel the two Russians picks were bad, and just added to the total let down of the draft for me.

I could get on board with that if it was a mid to late 1st or 2nd rounders, those picks are significantly more valuable to an organization. But we are talking about 3rd round draft picks here, the vast majority of players picked in that range never play a minute of hockey at the NHL level regardless of nationality.

Mact supposedly spent the year scouting these players, probably has talked to them as well and maybe he knows something about them we don't. Even if he doesn't it's not a huge loss, and has some potential reward.

 

[PeakMcOil]

If the argument is that Russian players are risky to draft because they have more options for high paying hockey jobs, it's a fair comment and a reality of the modern day NHL/KHL dynamic born out by the 22 total Russian NHL players in the league last year. Not everyone seeks the very best competition, dreams of Stanley cups, enjoys the North American lifestyle with it's taxes, or want to live on the other side of the world from their families.

It's not like we haven't seen these types of decisions from Canadians and americans either, whether it's to avoid fame, or move closer to families, etc. The lower down the pay scale and ice time pecking order, the more attractive the KHL option will be for Russian players as lifestyle and money become far more attractive overseas, it's as simple as that really.

If the argument is that teams can't win in the NHL because they are Russian... you're on your own on that one, and a recommendation of a little less Coaches corner in your hockey-centric viewing habits is in order as well.

An excellent post.

There is a certain risk with Russian players in particular, but it is (imo) overstated. This is still the best league in the world, and playing in it is still a huge draw for these kids. I think both the Russian picks were well worth it, Slepyshev is a first round talent, and we got him and 4 other picks with our 2nd rounder.

When you can get extremely talented kids based solely on there national origin, I think it's a good bet.

 

[s7ark]

This thread seems pretty much done