Off-Topic Chat Thread

[Tarantula]

Vincent Price was good at everything he did as far as I can remember. Hillarious House of Frankenstein, spooked the hell out of me as a kid.

 

[Sanf]

My personal Vincent Price moment is when he narrates Vincent, short film by Tim Burton. The end with the quote from poem from Edgar Allan Poe still gives me shivers. In a good way.

 

[VMBM]

Then there's the talking (and laughing!) parts on Michael Jackson's "Thriller", of course. And I remember Price doing Carole King's "You've Got A Friend" on the aforementioned Muppet Show, so clearly he didn't belittle (later) popular culture.

 

[VMBM]

In music, I generally lean towards America, but as far as (TV) comedy goes, I'm a huge anglophile. The Young Ones, I'm Alan Partridge, Blackadder, to name a few, they all are brilliant series. But of course, each one of them was directly or indirectly influenced by Monty Python, 'The Beatles of British comedy', whose ground-breaking sketch show Monty Python’s Flying Circus started just over 50 years ago, in the fall of 1969. So, I’d like to do a mini-tribute to Graham Chapman, John Cleese, Eric Idle, Terry Jones, Michael Palin and Terry Gilliam.

It is important to notice that, as the Pythons have acknowledged themselves, it is not like they just came from nowhere. Two of their most important influences were arguably Spike Milligan (and the Goons) and Peter Cook (often paired with Dudley Moore), the former especially for the surrealism and 'verbal wackiness', and the latter for the anti-establishment/authority attitude and satire. Unfortunately, much of their television work (like Q5 and Not Only… But Also, respectively) was wiped out, and probably for this reason too these two forerunners are not quite as famous as they might have been. Another crucial thing for Pythons' success is that the Flying Circus was done in color (one of the first comedy series at that, I believe), so it doesn’t look so dated visually as many other earlier sketch shows.

All of the Pythons had already known each other before they came together. John Cleese, Graham Chapman and Eric Idle had met at Cambridge and had worked together in the university's comedy troupe, known as the Footlights, whereas Terry Jones and Michael Palin had met at Oxford and had worked together on some revues there. A few years later, all of them were writers/performers on the show called the Frost Report, hosted by and starring David Frost. Terry Gilliam, the only American of the group, had known and worked with John Cleese in the mid-1960s and then later joined as an animator for a TV show called Do Not Adjust Your Set, which was written and performed by Idle, Jones and Palin (starring also David Jones and Denise Coffey).

So, the dynamics in Monty Python were basically already there as the group started. Cleese and Chapman, as well as Jones and Palin used to write in pairs for the TV show and the movies and worked together on the sketches before they even showed them for the others. If I had to generalize a bit, Cleese & Chapman would write more verbal sketches, often including some kind of argument and sometimes an excessive use of synonyms (the Parrot and Cheese Shop skits being prime examples of that). Palin & Jones had usually more visual elements and some crazy – historical or other – concept in the jokes (e.g. the Spanish Inquisition and the Barber Shop/Lumberjack Song sketches are theirs). Idle usually wrote alone, and his style was also more verbal, the Nudge Nudge skit probably the most famous example. In my opinion, Idle was also the funniest and in some ways the most versatile performer of them all. Gilliam's role in the TV show was mostly to provide the animation that would link the sketches together. He – along with Idle – was also an important sounding board when the skits, bulk of them written by Cleese & Chapman and Palin & Jones, were presented to the group for the first time. Of the members, John Cleese and Terry Jones were usually seen as the opposites as far as tastes in comedy are concerned, so the rest of the group would then often decide between their ideas.

There are far too many classic Monty Python sketches and movie scenes to list here, but here are a couple of longer ones with narratives which probably all of them worked on. Unfortunately, some of my favorites like Archaeology Today and the Poet McTeagle don’t seem to be fully available on YouTube, so these two will have to do:

The Funniest Joke in the World (that's the name, he he):


Hell’s Grannies (this version is from the movie And Now for Something Completely Different)

 

[sr edler]

Bevis & Butthead, Magical.

There have to be some better descriptions.

I've never really seen that show, except very short snippets. I remember one of them had a characteristic laugh.

 

[sr edler]

How about Finnish Counter Admiral Ernst Gustav Julius Caesar Fredrik Wilhelm Atos Porthos Aramis Romulus Remus Thitz. Not related to hockey at all, but to me it's the most coolest name ever.

Ernst Gustav Julius Thitz – Wikipedia.

There seems to be two big blocks here, firstly [Ernst Gustav] and [Fredrik Wilhelm] (German), and on the other hand [Julius Caesar] and [Atos Porthos Aramis Romulus Remus] (Latin). If you dissect it like this it doesn't seem very random, just over the top excessive. A certain part of the upper class in many European countries historically (and presently too to a certain degree obviously) loved to do this thing.

I don't know how it is in Finland but I've been told by an Estonian that in neighboring Estonia it's considered snobby to have a middle/second name and people in general don't have it. But I still like the more [seemingly] random line of [Anglo-Germanic 19th/20th century nickname] [Russian name] [Swedish name] [Gretzky's name]. The upper class people never go for the nickname officially, they call themselves "Bröli", "Lussan", "Noffan" and "Noppe" instead in an informal setting. This admiral guy probably had one of those too.

 

[Theokritos]

[Atos Porthos Aramis Romulus Remus] (Latin).

Athos, Porthos and Aramis aren't Latin. They are just fantasy names, I suppose?

 

[sr edler]

Athos, Porthos and Aramis aren't Latin. They are just fantasy names, I suppose?

Greek?

 

[MXD]

Athos, Porthos and Aramis aren't Latin. They are just fantasy names, I suppose?

Greek?

Technically, French.
But they're indeed Greek-sounding.

 

[sr edler]

Let's just call them Game of Thrones names.

 

[MXD]

Let's just call them Game of Thrones names.

It's actually the names of the three musketeers in Les Trois Mousquetaires. Hence why they're French names, as the author is French (and, pardon the extremely racialist term, a Quadroon), the setting is French (Louis XIII Court) and the characters are Béarnais, which makes them French (it's a tad more complex than that, but it's also a rabbit hole I have no intention of jumping into). But they aren't French-sounding at all.

So, either...

- You and Theokritos are playing "dumb"
- Les Trois Mousquetaires isn't as well known as I thought it was in the Non-French World (they're also quite well known in the Anglo-Saxon world). It's a Fixture of French litterature, capital Fs intended.

 

[Theokritos]

It's actually the names of the three musketeers in Les Trois Mousquetaires. Hence why they're French names, as the author is French (and, pardon the extremely racialist term, a Quadroon), the setting is French (Louis XIII Court) and the characters are Béarnais, which makes them French (it's a tad more complex than that, but it's also a rabbit hole I have no intention of jumping into). But they aren't French-sounding at all.

So, either...

- You and Theokritos are playing "dumb"
- Les Trois Mousquetaires isn't as well known as I thought it was in the Non-French World (they're also quite well known in the Anglo-Saxon world). It's a fixture of French litterature.

"The Three Musketeers" is well known outside of the French-speaking world, but it's still a question whether those are actual French names or just fantasy names made up by a French author. And since I've never encountered any other persons with the given names Athos, Porthos and Aramis, it's pretty obvious they are fantasy names.

You're right that they are Greek sounding, in particular Athos and Porthos with the ending -os. Athos is indeed a Greek toponym (Mount Athos), but not a personal name as far as I can tell. Neither are Porthos and Aramis. They are just fantasy creations.

 

[MXD]

"The Three Musketeers" is well known outside of the French-speaking world, but it's still a question whether those are actual French names or just fantasy names made up by a French author. And since I've never encountered any other persons with the given names Athos, Porthos and Aramis, it's pretty obvious they are fantasy names.

You're right that they are Greek sounding, in particular Athos and Porthos with the ending -os. Athos is indeed a Greek toponym (Mount Athos), but not a personal name as far as I can tell. Neither are Porthos and Aramis. They are just fantasy creations.

Aramis (well, Aramitz) and Athos comes from French places (and, thus, more importantly, nobility titles). Porthos comes from a French place too, with a nobility title attached, but an "s" was added, because the story of Athos, Porthau and Aramis doesn't sound as sexy as the story of Athos, Porthos and Aramis

 

[Theokritos]

Aramis (well, Aramitz) and Athos comes from French places (and, thus, more importantly, nobility titles). Porthos comes from a French place too, with a nobility title attached, but an "s" was added, because the story of Athos, Porthau and Aramis doesn't sound as sexy as the story of Athos, Porthos and Aramis

Thanks for the information. It makes a lot of sense the names would be derived from actual toponyms.

 

[Theokritos]

So upon reading up on it, Alexandre Dumas just took three actual French musketeers...

Armand d'Athos
Isaac de Porthau
Henri d'Aramitz

...and fictionalized their names into "Athos", "Porthos" and "Aramis".

 

[Theokritos]

There seems to be two big blocks here, firstly [Ernst Gustav] and [Fredrik Wilhelm] (German), and on the other hand [Julius Caesar] and [Atos Porthos Aramis Romulus Remus] (Latin). If you dissect it like this it doesn't seem very random, just over the top excessive.

But there is no order to it, the Latin names don't form one block, etc. Looks like his parents had specific persons (real or ficticious) in mind:

Ernst Gustav: No idea.
Julius Caesar: Of course, the famous Roman general and dictator.
Fredrik Wilhelm: One of the Prussian kings, either Friedrich Wilhelm I (the "Soldier King") or Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussia (contemporary).
Atos Porthos Aramis: The Three Musketeers from Dumas' novel.
Romulus Remus: The twin brothers at the mythological onset of the history of Rome.

 

[MXD]

So upon reading up on it, Alexandre Dumas just took three actual French musketeers...

Armand d'Athos
Isaac de Porthau
Henri d'Aramitz

...and fictionalized their names into "Athos", "Porthos" and "Aramis".

All minor nobles, as far as I remember, hence why the "De XXXX/D' XXXX".

 

[sr edler]

Les Trois Mousquetaires isn't as well known as I thought it was in the Non-French World

Le Comte de Monte-Cristo is my dads favorite book (I think), and he's not French he's a Fenno-Swede. I know he likes it a lot, at least. What's been read can't be unread (and by that I mean this post, not the book).

But there is no order to it, the Latin names don't form one block, etc. Looks like his parents had specific persons (real or ficticious) in mind:

Ernst Gustav: No idea.
Julius Caesar: Of course, the famous Roman general and dictator.
Fredrik Wilhelm: One of the Prussian kings, either Friedrich Wilhelm I (the "Soldier King") or Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussia (contemporary).
Atos Porthos Aramis: The Three Musketeers from Dumas' novel.
Romulus Remus: The twin brothers at the mythological onset of the history of Rome.

Gustav must be from his dad Gustav Fredrik Thitz, but who cares really I don't even know who this guy is.

 

[sr edler]

- You and Theokritos are playing "dumb"

Now when you're speaking it out those names sounds really familiar, but I'm sorry I haven't read that book. I know it exists though. Have you read all works by Strindberg, Ibsen or Kierkegaard and know all the characters?

 

[MXD]

Now when you're speaking it out those names sounds really familiar, but I'm sorry I haven't read that book. I know it exists though. Have you read all works by Strindberg, Ibsen or Kierkegaard and know all the characters?

- I don't even know who Strindberg is.
- I know Kirkegaard by name, which, I guess, puts me in the small minority.
- I've read a translation of Peer Gynt about 20 years ago, which probably puts me in the extreme minority.


And then again, I'll emphasize that the musketeers (along with d'Artagnan, who isn't a titular three musketeer) are possibly the better known characters in the French litterature. I thought they actually were the best known Non-Title characters in Western Litterature, so as to exclude the likes of Romeo, Juliet, Othello, Don Juan (who basically became a stock character) and the aforementionned Count of Monte-Cristo.

I was perhaps wrong.

 

[sr edler]

I don't even know who Strindberg is.

Ouch, there you go. I think he liked to hang around in Paris, France with the avant-garde crowd and insisted his name (August) be pronounced the French way instead of the Swedish/German way. I think he was a Francophone before it was ever cool.

 

[VMBM]

Strindberg is one of my favourites; damn, did he have a chip on his shoulder or what! My others favourites include e.g. Steinbeck, Chekhov, Tolstoi. Heh, I'd really need to get acquainted with the modern world literature, I guess.

 

[sr edler]

Heh, I'd really need to get acquainted with the modern world literature, I guess.

Try A Rose in the Storm by Brenda Joyce. Your brain will explode with such force Helsinki will have to declare martial law. If you read in Swedish I have a physical copy under the title Den som segrar, I can send it over the Baltic Sea per snail mail. My rats have chewed a little on the cover but otherwise it's basically mint condition.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Which history is better: history of hockey or history of soccer?

 

[MXD]

Which history is better: history of hockey or history of soccer?

Soccer.
I mean, Hundred Hours War, Battle of Santiago...

The closest hockey has to this is the Richard Riot.