Speculation: Off-Season Discussion (continued)

[Random Forest]

You seem to think what I'm advocating for is impatience. It's not. It's just shifting around our prospect profile. It doesn't change the timeline, it doesn't rush anybody along, it isn't trying to short-circuit the rebuild. It's just swapping a D for a F under the right circumstances given our current construction.

Re: Pittsburgh. They get to play Sheary and Hornqvist with Crosby because they have Malkin as their 2C and a dynamite third line with Hagelin, Bonino, and Kessel. We get to roll Giroux and Voracek on the top line. Then no matter how you slice up the rest of our forwards, we don't have the capability to run more than one other effective scoring line. Then consider the fact that that line has to play heavy D because it has Couturier...

Our attack is incredibly unbalanced and inefficient, and I really think you guys understate how difficult of a fix it might be.

As for drafting top four-- I never said it was a requirement. In fact I've vehemently argued in the past that it is not a requirement with proper management. But it also requires some degree of luck. We already got lightning to strike with Giroux, and I don't want to hope we can capture it again if there is a way to responsibly bolster our odds.

 

[Lindberg]

I think some of you are really underselling Ghost at this point. He would probably easily been in the top 10 for defensemen (points wise) this year. If he doesn't have pretty much #1 potential at this point I'm not sure what you expect from a #1 defensemen and nothing to me indicates his season was a fluke. He's too good offensively not to improve/round his defensive game. Add in Provorov and that is a decent top four (if he plays well) and damn good if he hits his potential.

In a potential trade scenario I'd rather trade Morin than Sanheim but I can understand why someone would want to sell him for a player with game breaking potential. The flyers really could stand to add a forward or two this year. I'm totally fine with standing pat and just dropping off the dead weight (Streit, Umberger, VdV) and improving the bottom six.

 

[Rebels57]

I think some of you are really underselling Ghost at this point. He would probably easily been in the top 10 for defensemen (points wise) this year. If he doesn't have pretty much #1 potential at this point I'm not sure what you expect from a #1 defensemen and nothing to me indicates his season was a fluke. He's too good offensively not to improve/round his defensive game. Add in Provorov and that is a decent top four (if he plays well) and damn good if he hits his potential.

In a potential trade scenario I'd rather trade Morin than Sanheim but I can understand why someone would want to sell him for a player with game breaking potential. The flyers really could stand to add a forward or two this year. I'm totally fine with standing pat and just dropping off the dead weight (Streit, Umberger, VdV) and improving the bottom six.

This seems so obvious that im surprised it has to be said, but points are not the biggest factor in whether or not a defensemen is a #1 calibre. Defensively, he certainly isnt there and he might never be. He has a major obstacle to overcome..his major lack of size/strength for his position.

He is elite offensively and should provide top 4 calibre defense. Thats enough for me.

 

[Lindberg]

This seems so obvious that im surprised it has to be said, but points are not the biggest factor in whether or not a defensemen is a #1 calibre. Defensively, he certainly isnt there and he might never be. He has a major obstacle to overcome..his major lack of size/strength for his position.

He is elite offensively and should provide top 4 calibre defense. Thats enough for me.

It is obvious and it doesn't need to be said. I'm firmly aware of what the point a defensemen is suppose to do but last time I checked you win hockey games by scoring not by stick checking or hitting. The size/strength is soooo incredibly over rated in hockey. There has been plenty of big defenders that have been nothing more than pylons. Pretty much all the higher scoring defensemen turn out to be the better defensemen in the league. Being put in a position to succeed is important but you also have to succeed when put into that position.

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

When our team was healthy, the Couturier line AND the Giroux line were scoring threats. Its still our bottom 6 that needs the improvement thru trades, free agency, or drafting. Our defense is being turned over thru our prospect pool. Its not JUST Voracek and Giroux, Schenn and Couturier broke out offensively last season and Simmonds is a 30/30 guy (albeit mostly points from the PP but we need PP points too). As we've seen from adding Ghost, improved offense will come from a more mobile and offensively capable defense. Adding Provorov and Sanheim will be like adding top 6 forwards.

 

[Rebels57]

It is obvious and it doesn't need to be said. I'm firmly aware of what the point a defensemen is suppose to do but last time I checked you win hockey games by scoring not by stick checking or hitting. The size/strength is soooo incredibly over rated in hockey. There has been plenty of big defenders that have been nothing more than pylons. Pretty much all the higher scoring defensemen turn out to be the better defensemen in the league. Being put in a position to succeed is important but you also have to succeed when put into that position.

Size and strength is far from overrated for a defensemen. Theres a reason not many defensemen in his weight class have ever been considered a #1. He simply cannot defend some of the bigger better forwards down low. We saw him struggle defending the cycle all last season. Maybe putting in some work with a guy like Timonen could do wonders but I dont envision Ghost being a #1.

Like I said though, hes elite offensively and can give you top 4 calibre D.

 

[Rebels57]

When our team was healthy, the Couturier line AND the Giroux line were scoring threats. Its still our bottom 6 that needs the improvement thru trades, free agency, or drafting. Our defense is being turned over thru our prospect pool. Its not JUST Voracek and Giroux, Schenn and Couturier broke out offensively last season and Simmonds is a 30/30 guy (albeit mostly points from the PP but we need PP points too). As we've seen from adding Ghost, improved offense will come from a more mobile and offensively capable defense. Adding Provorov and Sanheim will be like adding top 6 forwards.

Agreed.

Improve bottom 6 and inject more youth. Thats enough for me going into next season. Also id like Lappy "reassigned."

 

[kelmitchell]

This seems so obvious that im surprised it has to be said, but points are not the biggest factor in whether or not a defensemen is a #1 calibre. Defensively, he certainly isnt there and he might never be. He has a major obstacle to overcome..his major lack of size/strength for his position.

He is elite offensively and should provide top 4 calibre defense. Thats enough for me.

His size isn't a huge issue, he was actually very good on the defensive side of the game using his speed, stick, and postioning he did a damn good job as a rookie, kimmo wasn't big either but was great defensively due to his speed, stick, and postioning as well, no he's not a #1 right now but his defense certainly isn't to far off, he's definitely defending like a #3 or #4 his only weakness is on the boards, but even that improved the more he played

 

[Larry44]

His size isn't a huge issue, he was actually very good on the defensive side of the game using his speed, stick, and postioning he did a damn good job as a rookie, kimmo wasn't big either but was great defensively due to his speed, stick, and postioning as well, no he's not a #1 right now but his defense certainly isn't to far off, he's definitely defending like a #3 or #4 his only weakness is on the boards, but even that improved the more he played

And Ghost was playing with AMac as his partner remember. When he's with Morin or Provy he will have more help. Sanheim will also be a weapon on O so the oppostion won't be able to key on him.

For the next year or two, Del Zotto and Gudas will get most of the tough assignments which will give the kids room to develop too.

 

[Larry44]

When our team was healthy, the Couturier line AND the Giroux line were scoring threats. Its still our bottom 6 that needs the improvement thru trades, free agency, or drafting. Our defense is being turned over thru our prospect pool. Its not JUST Voracek and Giroux, Schenn and Couturier broke out offensively last season and Simmonds is a 30/30 guy (albeit mostly points from the PP but we need PP points too). As we've seen from adding Ghost, improved offense will come from a more mobile and offensively capable defense. Adding Provorov and Sanheim will be like adding top 6 forwards.

Agreed. The offense has promise with two scoring lines and some very good kids coming up.

A couple years from now we could have a lineup like this (without including any possible UFAs or 2016 picks):

Voracek-Couturier-Konecny
Schenn-Giroux-Simmonds
Lindblom-Laughton-Aube-Kubel
Leier-Bellemare-Raffl
Fazleev-Cousins-Bardreau-Goulbourne
With longer-shot prospects like Vorobyov, Kase, Morody still out there.

 

[bb12]

I'm going to continue to advocate leier should be on this team next year. He is the bottom
Six addition we need. The only one, no but will play a major role of getting certain players off the ice period and certain ones off the pk

 

[Tripod]

I'm going to continue to advocate leier should be on this team next year. He is the bottom
Six addition we need. The only one, no but will play a major role of getting certain players off the ice period and certain ones off the pk

Leier hopefully will be taking Whites spot on the roster.

 

[kammy]

Leier hopefully will be taking Whites spot on the roster.

you mean VDV's spot ?

 

[Striiker]

you mean VDV's spot ?

He's already been replaced by a sack full of rocks.

 

[Tripod]

you mean VDV's spot ?

Well that would be nice too. But White is a UFA. I hope he is not re-signed and we turn the page and add more speed to our bottom 6.

But yeah, ideally, neither VDV or White are playing. Add Leier and add a real #3 C and drop Cousins down to the 4th line.

Belle Cousins Leier could be a decent 4th line that can add some scoring and good on the forecheck.

 

[Striiker]

Well that would be nice too. But White is a UFA. I hope he is not re-signed and we turn the page and add more speed to our bottom 6.

But yeah, ideally, neither VDV or White are playing. Add Leier and add a real #3 C and drop Cousins down to the 4th line.

Belle Cousins Leier could be a decent 4th line that can add some scoring and good on the forecheck.

Schenn-Giroux-Simmonds
Raffl-Couts-Voracek
Read-Laughton-Konecny
Bellemare-Cousins-Leier

I'd call that a decent upgrade.

 

[BernieParent]

"Elite" has been overused to the point of having little objective meaning. For me, this team has 1 elite player: Giroux. Couturier has elite-level defensive abilities as a centre and I believe he will win a Selke sometime in his career, Gostisbehere has shown the potential in his first year to develop into an elite offensive defenseman. And Voracek put up one year of top-5 points.

We have some very good players on this team. I just want to walk back their collective eliteness.

/old-man rant

On the D vs F prospect debate, I think the most difficult decision Ron Hextall has is to read the tea leaves and see not only the potential for his rich crop of defensive prospects as very good to star NHLers but the viability and practicality of them all hitting the Flyers roster within 2-3 years. It's amazing to look at that line-up on our screens and imagine the potential, but that is asking a whole lots for them to form a cohesive unit. I will be neutral in the Sanheim vs Dubois/Tkachuk/Puljujärvi hypothetical because I think there is strong merit on both sides. I'm eternally grateful we have clear heads making the actual decisions at the helm of the Flyers vessel.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Leier doesn't have to clear waivers. I think we may see him back in LHV to start the year.

 

[bb12]

Well that would be nice too. But White is a UFA. I hope he is not re-signed and we turn the page and add more speed to our bottom 6.

But yeah, ideally, neither VDV or White are playing. Add Leier and add a real #3 C and drop Cousins down to the 4th line.

Belle Cousins Leier could be a decent 4th line that can add some scoring and good on the forecheck.

Ideally if we can add a 3c and hak drops vdv we could be in pretty decent shape. Read needs a trade and white not resigned.

So ya very little chance we get the bottom 6 we want

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

Ideally if we can add a 3c and hak drops vdv we could be in pretty decent shape. Read needs a trade and white not resigned.

So ya very little chance we get the bottom 6 we want

Zero reason to trade Read. Worst case, play him on the fourth line and then expose him at the expansion draft.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

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