Trade: [NYY/PIT] Ivan Nova to Pittsburgh
- Thread starter Taro Tsujimoto
- Start date
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
Well, Nova has good stuff, but he is fragile as hell and never put it together.
He could be salvaged.
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
That's way too good of a return for Nova. Neither are likely to have huge impacts, but they're solid prospects with upside.
Tarpley straight up would have been pushing things in my book. Polo had a breakout year last year and was fantastic to start this year, but struggled upon promotion to A+ Bradenton. The power he showed in West Virginia was most definitely a mirage, he's a 5'9" speedy corner outfielder who was obviously blocked in Pittsburgh...but as with Ramirez that doesn't mean you just ****ing give him away. His biggest problem in Bradenton was that he became a pure singles hitter. In 4 fewer at bats in Bradenton than West Virginia he had 22 fewer extra-base hits. I'm still not a fan of just tossing a prospect away because of two mediocre months.
Tarpley was one of the arms acquired in the Travis Snider trade. He's had a mediocre year in Bradenton after a good year in West Virginia last year, but he's still a lefty with upside. At the very least I expect him to be an effective reliever in the Majors.
Tarpley straight up would have been pushing things in my book. Polo had a breakout year last year and was fantastic to start this year, but struggled upon promotion to A+ Bradenton. The power he showed in West Virginia was most definitely a mirage, he's a 5'9" speedy corner outfielder who was obviously blocked in Pittsburgh...but as with Ramirez that doesn't mean you just ****ing give him away. His biggest problem in Bradenton was that he became a pure singles hitter. In 4 fewer at bats in Bradenton than West Virginia he had 22 fewer extra-base hits. I'm still not a fan of just tossing a prospect away because of two mediocre months.
Tarpley was one of the arms acquired in the Travis Snider trade. He's had a mediocre year in Bradenton after a good year in West Virginia last year, but he's still a lefty with upside. At the very least I expect him to be an effective reliever in the Majors.
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robert terwilliger
the bart, the
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
Nicasio's ERA after 7 starts was 4.34 with the wheels already coming off after his first start. Basically all of the positive stuff writen about Nicasio was written within the first week of the season.
Nova is pulling a Happ...which puts the Pirates in a very weird position when it comes to re-signing him because I have no ****ing clue what is a fair price for Nova at this point in time and the Pirates have two polar opposites that they could overreact to (Happ pitching very well in Toronto compared to paying a ransom just to get rid of Liriano's contract).
robert terwilliger
the bart, the
i just think that as much as people want to anoint ray searage as the next pitching pope that there's always going to be guys like nova and happ who just need to get away from whichever team they are on and the old "change of scenery" rings more true than some white robed deity descending from a mountaintop and fixing someone like nova in the blink of an eye.
we heard it all spring that he'd basically fixed juan nicasio after the horrors of coors field and nicasio had a good spring before he turned into a pumpkin.
i think it's great for nova because he was kind of jerked around by the yankees but i do feel bad for the pirates here. they want to subscribe to the idea that "ray searage knows all except combination to safe" but they have to understand that this offseason is going to be one of the most pivotal in franchise history and resigning a guy after a good couple of weeks could **** them in 2017.
we heard it all spring that he'd basically fixed juan nicasio after the horrors of coors field and nicasio had a good spring before he turned into a pumpkin.
i think it's great for nova because he was kind of jerked around by the yankees but i do feel bad for the pirates here. they want to subscribe to the idea that "ray searage knows all except combination to safe" but they have to understand that this offseason is going to be one of the most pivotal in franchise history and resigning a guy after a good couple of weeks could **** them in 2017.
Big McLargehuge
Fragile Traveler
Anyone expecting a perfect record is obviously going to be disappointed. Searage overhauled Happ's delivery, hence how a 32 year-old Happ with his 5th team was able to turn such a corner. Happ spent parts of 3 seasons with Toronto before returning there, and the pre-Searage numbers are putrid compared to the post-Searage numbers.
The thing with Nova is that I'm less inclined to give all of the credit to Searage, namely because Nova has walked 2 batters since becoming a Pirate. That's Kershaw-esque, and not sustainable at all. This one could be more of a change of scenery breakout than a ton of meddling working out. That said, Nova has been a far better pitcher his last 4 starts than he was his first 3 in Pittsburgh, so I don't think it's fair to write off Searage entirely...but I can easily buy this being little more than a hot streak. Unfortunately there's really nothing he can do this season to ease my concerns, since they're all based on how he'll fare on a larger sample size with more pressure put on him.
But yeah, going forward with the strategy of 'the pitching coach can fix anyone' is just inviting disaster, and that played out this year. Liriano refused to change, and a pitching coach can't help those who refuse help (doubly infuriating when Searage already fixed Liriano once, but the batters adapted). Nicasio has been the definition of a mediocrity, Niese was an unmitigated disaster, etc. I just don't think that was the Pirates intention heading into last season, Huntington just seemed to be blind-sided by how absurd the market for starters was. He can't afford to stay on the sidelines again this time around.
The thing with Nova is that I'm less inclined to give all of the credit to Searage, namely because Nova has walked 2 batters since becoming a Pirate. That's Kershaw-esque, and not sustainable at all. This one could be more of a change of scenery breakout than a ton of meddling working out. That said, Nova has been a far better pitcher his last 4 starts than he was his first 3 in Pittsburgh, so I don't think it's fair to write off Searage entirely...but I can easily buy this being little more than a hot streak. Unfortunately there's really nothing he can do this season to ease my concerns, since they're all based on how he'll fare on a larger sample size with more pressure put on him.
But yeah, going forward with the strategy of 'the pitching coach can fix anyone' is just inviting disaster, and that played out this year. Liriano refused to change, and a pitching coach can't help those who refuse help (doubly infuriating when Searage already fixed Liriano once, but the batters adapted). Nicasio has been the definition of a mediocrity, Niese was an unmitigated disaster, etc. I just don't think that was the Pirates intention heading into last season, Huntington just seemed to be blind-sided by how absurd the market for starters was. He can't afford to stay on the sidelines again this time around.
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