Speculation: Nylander

[Incetardis]

Because the best players generate their own offence.

Kadri put up massive points in the shortened season with Orr as a linemate, getting 4th line minutes. Let that sink in a bit.

Isolating out chunks of a season to look at player point potential over an 82 game season is a mistake.

One I've made and got burned for multiple times, so its not one I'm going to make again.

C'mon man... Its obviously a little of both. If the coach is using a player in a more defensive/checking role than his offensive production will suffer. Truly elite players create offense and drive the play every time they're on the ice but if you're not Crosby, Kane, McDavid, etc. your role is a major factor in your production. Most players, especially young ones need to find a role/linemates they're comfortable with to be effective

 

[Nithoniniel]

Because the best players generate their own offence.

Kadri put up massive points in the shortened season with Orr as a linemate, getting 4th line minutes. Let that sink in a bit.

Isolating out chunks of a season to look at player point potential over an 82 game season is a mistake.

One I've made and got burned for multiple times, so its not one I'm going to make again.

Yes, that is a mistake. But it still doesn't change that you can't use the whole season as an indicator for what he produced with Eichel when they weren't playing together that whole period. Come on, that's obvious.

I'm not even sure what your arguments are now. You bring up Reinhart's production with Eichel, but then you use games where the two didn't play together, and when I point that out then Eichel doesn't matter any more because good players drive their own offense? That's called moving the goal posts, and you're better than that.

Retrace your steps for a moment. Why will Nylander score 40-50? You say because Reinhart, a great prospect in his own right, got 44 points. That's fine. Just one piece of information saying 40-50 when everything else indicates better, but sure. Thing is, the reason he didn't score more is because he got stuck in a depth role with bad linemates. Nylander is expected to play on a scoring line with a terrific talent. It's just not very representative.

Finally, what on earth are you talking about regarding Kadri? The guy played over 16 minutes per game that season, and Orr wasn't even one of his most common linemates. Furthermore, that production was driven by an insane on-ice shooting percentage. Again, not very representative of anything.

 

[TLeafsFan]

C'mon man... Its obviously a little of both. If the coach is using a player in a more defensive/checking role than his offensive production will suffer. Truly elite players create offense and drive the play every time they're on the ice but if you're not Crosby, Kane, McDavid, etc. your role is a major factor in your production. Most players, especially young ones need to find a role/linemates they're comfortable with to be effective

All players actually, Kessel with Crosby or Malkin should have been dynamite in the regular season, right?

Is Bonino>Crosby or Malkin?

 

[TLeafsFan]

Yes, that is a mistake. But it still doesn't change that you can't use the whole season as an indicator for what he produced with Eichel when they weren't playing together that whole period. Come on, that's obvious.

I'm not even sure what your arguments are now. You bring up Reinhart's production with Eichel, but then you use games where the two didn't play together, and when I point that out then Eichel doesn't matter any more because good players drive their own offense? That's called moving the goal posts, and you're better than that.

Retrace your steps for a moment. Why will Nylander score 40-50? You say because Reinhart, a great prospect in his own right, got 44 points. That's fine. Just one piece of information saying 40-50 when everything else indicates better, but sure. Thing is, the reason he didn't score more is because he got stuck in a depth role with bad linemates. Nylander is expected to play on a scoring line with a terrific talent. It's just not very representative.

Finally, what on earth are you talking about regarding Kadri? The guy played over 16 minutes per game that season, and Orr wasn't even one of his most common linemates. Furthermore, that production was driven by an insane on-ice shooting percentage. Again, not very representative of anything.

Projection stats are very subjective. Babcock is bound to switch all his lines around with all his new players quite alot I'd imagine while trying to figure out what works the best as far as a unit.

I never meant that Reinhart had Eichel all season either. I only meant it as far as quality young player rookie forwards also on the roster. I suspect Nylander will be tried in different roles, with different linemates through the season, like Reinhart, too.

I also don't buy into the fact that Reinhart was asked to play a non scoring role. He maybe just didn't make the players he played with better, as much as Bylsma might have hoped, but it was still good for 3rd in team scoring, behind ROR and Eichel. How was having his main center as ROR a depth position when ROR was 1st in team scoring?

http://dobberhockey.com/players/sam-reinhart


Even Strength Line Combinations
Freq Line Combination
29.6% MCGINN,JAMIE - O'REILLY,RYAN - REINHART,SAM
29.4% KANE,EVANDER - O'REILLY,RYAN - REINHART,SAM
22.4% EICHEL,JACK - KANE,EVANDER - REINHART,SAM
10.7% EICHEL,JACK - GIRGENSONS,ZEMGUS - REINHART,SAM
7.9% DESLAURIERS,NICOLAS - EICHEL,JACK - REINHART,SAM

 

[Nithoniniel]

Projection stats are very subjective. Babcock is bound to switch all his lines around with all his new players quite alot I'd imagine while trying to figure out what works the best as far as a unit.

I never meant that Reinhart had Eichel all season either. I only meant it as far as quality young player rookie forwards also on the roster. I suspect Nylander will be tried in different roles, with different linemates through the season, like Reinhart, too.

I also don't buy into the fact that Reinhart was asked to play a non scoring role. He maybe just didn't make the players he played with better, as much as Bylsma might have hoped, but it was still good for 3rd in team scoring, behind ROR and Eichel. How was having his main center as ROR a depth position when ROR was 1st in team scoring?

http://dobberhockey.com/players/sam-reinhart


Even Strength Line Combinations
Freq Line Combination
29.6% MCGINN,JAMIE - O'REILLY,RYAN - REINHART,SAM
29.4% KANE,EVANDER - O'REILLY,RYAN - REINHART,SAM
22.4% EICHEL,JACK - KANE,EVANDER - REINHART,SAM
10.7% EICHEL,JACK - GIRGENSONS,ZEMGUS - REINHART,SAM
7.9% DESLAURIERS,NICOLAS - EICHEL,JACK - REINHART,SAM

Good comeback. It's obvious I was misinformed about how Reinhart was used prior to being placed on a very successful line with Eichel.

So I'll concede that Reinhart, as a prospect of comparable capability, producing 44 points is a point in your favor. I still feel that the vast majority of information we have to go on says that your range would be slightly disappointing.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Good comeback. It's obvious I was misinformed about how Reinhart was used prior to being placed on a very successful line with Eichel.

So I'll concede that Reinhart, as a prospect of comparable capability, producing 44 points is a point in your favor. I still feel that the vast majority of information we have to go on says that your range would be slightly disappointing.

42 points.

For the record, I truly hope that all of JVR, Kadri, Nylander, Marner, Matthews and Rielly all get north of 50 points this season.

It would bode very well for our future.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

42 points.

For the record, I truly hope that all of JVR, Kadri, Nylander, Marner, Matthews and Rielly all get north of 50 points this season.

It would bode very well for our future.

I see Nylander, Matthews somewhere in the 55-70 range easily.

 

[kb]

Because the best players generate their own offence.

Kadri put up massive points in the shortened season with Orr as a linemate, getting 4th line minutes. Let that sink in a bit.

Isolating out chunks of a season to look at player point potential over an 82 game season is a mistake.

One I've made and got burned for multiple times, so its not one I'm going to make again.

Wholly and factually actually incorrect. Kadri had 3 minutes less TOI at 5v5 than Grabovski for the whole season, 60 less than Bozak, and close to 100 more than Jay McClement, plus his most common linemate was Clarke MacArthur.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Wholly and factually actually incorrect. Kadri had 3 minutes less TOI at 5v5 than Grabovski for the whole season, 60 less than Bozak, and close to 100 more than Jay McClement, plus his most common linemate was Clarke MacArthur.

Yes I exaggerated a bit for effect.

Orr didn't see much ice in a game, but Kadri was still the only Leaf that could produce while Orr was on the ice with him.