McKenzie: "Nurse negotiations are not going well at all" (Oilers offer 2 year deal)

[nabob]

I don't know why we're talking about Lucic in here but the fact is he had a bad ~40 games to end the season, that's it. He had a typical 50-60 point season in 2016-17 and was on pace for his typical season in the first half of last season. 23 points in 28 games heading into Christmas and was 16th for left wingers in scoring at the holiday break. The game suddenly didn't get faster or he got slower. I believe him when he said it was almost entirely mental.

Just a typical troll fest of an Oilers thread k. The mains is all. Two very comparable players to Nurse sign today and all the trolls want to talk about is Lucic??

 

[Roof Daddy]

I'd have to think Nurse and his agent will come back down to Earth with Morrisey signing his bridge deal. The two had near identical numbers - same point totals, same +/-, with the only big difference being Nurse played an extra 1:48 per game. You could argue the difference in time means he played a larger role than Morrisey, but you could argue he accomplished less than Morrisey considering the extra time.

Considering it's Chia, tack an extra 100k per year. 2 years, 6.5 mil, 3.25 per. Just sign it already.

 

[McHaNugYakEbNurDra]

Just a typical troll fest of an Oilers thread k. The mains is all. Two very comparable players to Nurse sign today and all the trolls want to talk about is Lucic??

Two comparables? I must have missed the other one....Morrissey and.....?

 

[780il]

Lot of stink made about a pretty mediocre second pairing defenseman. I'm sure that's exactly what Chiarelli was looking for heading into training camp, already down Sekera. Didn't really think there was much possibility for this to drag into the regular season over a couple 100 thousand. Still don't really but it's beginning to look more like a stalemate than an ongoing cordial negotiation.

All credibility lost in one sentence

 

[Bounces R Way]

All credibility lost in one sentence

Ahh. Going with the tried and tested "Cuz I said so" argument I see. Strong stuff, I am left with no recourse.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

I'd have to think Nurse and his agent will come back down to Earth with Morrisey signing his bridge deal. The two had near identical numbers - same point totals, same +/-, with the only big difference being Nurse played an extra 1:48 per game. You could argue the difference in time means he played a larger role than Morrisey, but you could argue he accomplished less than Morrisey considering the extra time.

Considering it's Chia, tack an extra 100k per year. 2 years, 6.5 mil, 3.25 per. Just sign it already.

Uh Nurse played on terrible team though...

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

All credibility lost in one sentence

What about the bolded is incorrect? This is how most people outside Edmonton view him.

 

[nzoilerfan]

Surely he gets an identical contract to Morrisey. Nurse managed to put up identical numbers but in a way worse situation. So maybe some room to be slightly higher.

 

[XXIV97]

What about the bolded is incorrect? This is how most people outside Edmonton view him.

Everything is incorrect

 

[Mr Positive]

Ahh. Going with the tried and tested "Cuz I said so" argument I see. Strong stuff, I am left with no recourse.

just know that the only reason people are talking about this is because there's not much to talk about now, and it is a situation about to be resolved. Plus, with young Dmen a lot of the excitement is about future potential, of which Nurse has much left untapped.

 

[Del Preston]

Ahh. Going with the tried and tested "Cuz I said so" argument I see. Strong stuff, I am left with no recourse.

I'd love to hear how a player who just played top pairing on a bad team and had a good season is nothing more than a mediocre 2nd pairing defenseman.

 

[Mr Positive]

I'd love to hear how a player who just played top pairing on a bad team and had a good season is nothing more than a mediocre 2nd pairing defenseman.

well the argument there would be that on a good team he would be a 2nd pairing Dman. Not that I agree, but I get it.

But at the same token one could ask if the main reason Morrissey climbed so fast in Winnipeg is because he's one of their only LHD

 

[Del Preston]

well the argument there would be that on a good team he would be a 2nd pairing Dman. Not that I agree, but I get it.

And that would be a stupid argument, tbh. He's a young defenseman who took big step forward last season. There's nothing to suggest he's a mediocre #3 or #4 other than being a Flames fan.

 

[Flukeshot]

I think Nurse is worth more than Morrissey but not millions. It does help frame his value though. I think at this point $4m for a year or two would be fair.

 

[Cup or Bust]

Although Nurse did have a good season, showed improvement, and did play top pairing minutes, he was not nearly as good when Larsson was out of the lineup. He had ups and downs. As a young RFA, I cannot see where 4 million comes into play on a bridge deal. Maybe 3.2 to 3.5 range seems more realistic.

 

[780il]

Although Nurse did have a good season, showed improvement, and did play top pairing minutes, he was not nearly as good when Larsson was out of the lineup. He had ups and downs. As a young RFA, I cannot see where 4 million comes into play on a bridge deal. Maybe 3.2 to 3.5 range seems more realistic.

This is correct, JoMo's contract or slightly higher is where he should be.

 

[Bounces R Way]

just know that the only reason people are talking about this is because there's not much to talk about now, and it is a situation about to be resolved. Plus, with young Dmen a lot of the excitement is about future potential, of which Nurse has much left untapped.

Well I guess that's true, been a long summer and all. Nurse has some nice tools and potential sure, haven't really seen the consistency from him yet to say he has top pairing potential. Still obviously a player the Oilers would rather have signed rather than unsigned, their D is bad enough as it is.

I'd love to hear how a player who just played top pairing on a bad team and had a good season is nothing more than a mediocre 2nd pairing defenseman.

I think we both know playing top pairing minutes on the Oilers really doesn't mean all that much, especially considering both Klefbom and Sekera suffered injuries this year.

He ranked 105th in terms of P/GP among defenseman, right around names like Engelland, Hamhuis, Martinez, and Olli Maata, guys who I would consider mediocre 2nd pairing quality. So, even one "good" season for Darnell hasn't put him into the top 60 at his position. Defense being some what hard to quantify I can't really comment on whether the "shut down" qualifier Oil fans seem to like to attach to him is really accurate or not. He was on the ice for more GF than GA and his FFrel was decent so that's good I guess, but he also got to play with McDavid a bunch. The Oilers weren't really a terrible EV strength team either. Still see a lot of mistakes and inconsistencies in his game and he has very little idea of what to do in the OZ. He's big and mean in front of his net and along the boards and has a decent top speed but he's not the most agile player and I think his puck moving leaves a lot to be desired.

Also, despite the word mediocre having a negative connotation to it, it still means better than some. But by all means, I'd love to hear how he's much more than an average 2nd pairing defenseman.

 

[Del Preston]

I think we both know playing top pairing minutes on the Oilers really doesn't mean all that much, especially considering both Klefbom and Sekera suffered injuries this year.

Why, because you say so? The defense was the same group that was 20 minutes from the Conference Final two years ago. Nurse played his way up to the top pairing this past season.

He ranked 105th in terms of P/GP among defenseman, right around names like Engelland, Hamhuis, Martinez, and Olli Maata, guys who I would consider mediocre 2nd pairing quality. So, even one "good" season for Darnell hasn't put him into the top 60 at his position. Defense being some what hard to quantify I can't really comment on whether the "shut down" qualifier Oil fans seem to like to attach to him is really accurate or not. He was on the ice for more GF than GA and his FFrel was decent so that's good I guess, but he also got to play with McDavid a bunch. The Oilers weren't really a terrible EV strength team either. Still see a lot of mistakes and inconsistencies in his game and he has very little idea of what to do in the OZ. He's big and mean in front of his net and along the boards and has a decent top speed but he's not the most agile player and I think his puck moving leaves a lot to be desired.

Also, despite the word mediocre having a negative connotation to it, it still means better than some. But by all means, I'd love to hear how he's much more than an average 2nd pairing defenseman.

His point totals are low because he doesn't play the power play. He was tied-20th for defensemen in 5-on-5 scoring (better than every Flames dman, except Hamilton by three points) and tied-34th in even strength scoring (one less than Giordano).

By the way, earlier in the thread you said two good comparables for Nurse would be DeKeyser and Skjei, both who play top pairing for their teams. So in a few days Nurse has gone from being compared to two top pairing defenseman, to a mediocre second pairing player, without playing a game. Funny.

 

[kittiecarlyle]

well the argument there would be that on a good team he would be a 2nd pairing Dman. Not that I agree, but I get it.

But at the same token one could ask if the main reason Morrissey climbed so fast in Winnipeg is because he's one of their only LHD

Well you could ask but the answer would be no of course.

 

[yababy]

I think Nurse is worth more than Morrissey but not millions. It does help frame his value though. I think at this point $4m for a year or two would be fair.

4m ain't gonna happen now. Chiarelli let Chevy do his negotiating for him

 

[Bounces R Way]

Why, because you say so? The defense was the same group that was 20 minutes from the Conference Final two years ago. Nurse played his way up to the top pairing this past season.

Well it's also the same blueline that's featured such names as Justin Schultz, Andrew Ference, Jeff Petry, and Oscar Klefbom playing top pairing minutes recently. Were they 20 minutes from the Conference Final because of that D group or was it McDavid, Draisaitl, and Talbot dragging that team around? Last season's results would seem to indicate the latter.

His point totals are low because he doesn't play the power play. He was tied-20th for defensemen in 5-on-5 scoring (better than every Flames dman, except Hamilton by one point) and tied-34th in even strength scoring.

Wow, with such sparkling production you would wonder why a veteran coach didn't play him on the power play then. Again, playing with the Art Ross winner tends to help boost your point totals. Looking at the Flames as some standard doesn't really mean that much, they were the 28th ranked offense. TJ Brodie who by all accounts had a brutal year still outpointed Darnell by 6pts in eight less GP.

Edit: also Giordano had more points at evens and Hamilton had 6 more points at evens.

 

[Del Preston]

Well it's also the same blueline that's featured such names as Justin Schultz, Andrew Ference, Jeff Petry, and Oscar Klefbom playing top pairing minutes recently. Were they 20 minutes from the Conference Final because of that D group or was it McDavid, Draisaitl, and Talbot dragging that team around? Last season's results would seem to indicate the latter.

You just listed three players who haven't been on the team for years. Good job.

The team played well in 2016-17. They were bad last season.

Wow, with such sparkling production you would wonder why a veteran coach didn't play him on the power play then. Again, playing with the Art Ross winner tends to help boost your point totals. Looking at the Flames as some standard doesn't really mean that much, they were the 28th ranked offense. TJ Brodie who by all accounts had a brutal year still outpointed Darnell by 6pts in eight less GP.

Blame McLellan and the PP coach (Woodcroft) for not giving him a chance. They thought Mark Letestu was the answer to scoring goals.

Lol @ using the McDavid argument. Better disregard all the points other defensemen get when playing on the same team as elite offensive players.

You're the one using point totals as a basis for your argument, while ignoring that he doesn't play PP. That kind of matters. You can mock it all you want but finishing tied for 20th in 5-on-5 and 34th in EV strength scoring is pretty good.

TJ Brodie also scored 11 points on the power play. I've already told you Nurse doesn't play PP.

I'll post this again:

By the way, earlier in the thread you said two good comparables for Nurse would be DeKeyser and Skjei, both who play top pairing for their teams. So in a few days Nurse has gone from being compared to two top pairing defenseman, to a mediocre second pairing player, without playing a game. Funny.

Pretty clear what your intentions in this thread are. Really sad. You should go over to CP.

 

[Del Preston]

Edit: also Giordano had more points at evens and Hamilton had 6 more points at evens. No need to make stuff up.

Might want to re-read my post. 5-on-5 and Even Strength are two different things. I said Nurse had one less point at 5-on-5 than Hamilton (it was actually 3 fewer points), and one less than Giordano at even strength.

5-on-5
Hamilton: 27 points
Nurse: 24
Giordano: 22

Even Strength
Hamilton: 32
Giordano: 27
Nurse: 26

Quit while you're not too far behind. Nothing you've posted on this page has been remotely accurate and you've also been talking out both sides of your mouth as shown earlier.

 

[Bounces R Way]

You just listed three players who haven't been on the team for years. Good job.

The team played well in 2016-17. They were bad last season.

Thanks? They were also bad for the 9 years prior, mostly due to a poor blueline and bad management. Which seems like the outlier and which seems like the common denominator?

Lol @ using the McDavid argument. Better disregard all the points other defensemen get when playing on the same team as elite offensive players.

Don't remember saying disregard all points because McDavid, but infer whatever you want I guess. The word I used was boost.

You're the one using point totals as a basis for your argument, while ignoring that he doesn't play PP. That kind of matters.

Used it as a bulletpoint if anything, there were some other points I guess you chose to ignore. Point production is the gold standard in the NHL, it is the best quantitative measure for comparing players. Always has been, always will be.

I'll post this again:

By the way, earlier in the thread you said two good comparables for Nurse would be DeKeyser and Skjei, both who play top pairing for their teams. So in a few days Nurse has gone from being compared to two top pairing defenseman, to a mediocre second pairing player, without playing a game. Funny.

Pretty clear what your intentions in this thread are. Pretty sad.

On two of the worst bluelines in the league, they're top pairing dmen by necessity. You're not helping your case. My intentions are to offer my thoughts on a player and a player's contract status, which as far as I'm aware is the entire reason this forum exists.

 

[Del Preston]

Thanks? They were also bad for the 9 years prior, mostly due to a poor blueline and bad management. Which seems like the outlier and which seems like the common denominator?

Who gives two craps what the Oilers blue line looked like five years ago? Completely irrelevant.

Don't remember saying disregard all points because McDavid, but infer whatever you want I guess. The word I used was boost.

A player benefits from playing on the same team as the best player in the world. Cutting-edge analysis.

Used it as a bulletpoint if anything, there were some other points I guess you chose to ignore. Point production is the gold standard in the NHL, it is the best quantitative measure for comparing players. Always has been, always will be.

If you're going to use points to make an argument you should make sure it will actually help what you are trying to say. Nurse was 20th overall in the league at 5-on-5 and 34th at EV, and you're trying to downplay that after you compared him to Deryk Engelland for points-per-game.

On two of the worst bluelines in the league, they're top pairing dmen by necessity. You're not helping your case. My intentions are to offer my thoughts on a player and a player's contract status, which as far as I'm aware is the entire reason this forum exists.

Sure, it's clear what your intentions are. Same with about five other Flames fans who entered in here to post garbage. Nurse was worthy of $5M+ earlier in the thread but now is suddenly only a mediocre #3 or #4. Those players don't get $5M/season. I'm guessing you were just taking Nurse's side when it was reported talks weren't going well and now that the Oilers might sign him after the Morrissey contract you've decided he's actually a poorer player.