Speculation: NSH interested in Marner

[Soundgarden]

We don’t know what he is outside of Toronto - that place is genuinely a pressure cooker and dysfunctional as hell. His value is as low as it will ever be, so now’s the time to gamble on him.

My question is about the $$. Doesn’t Nashville have like $12M in dead cap still?

11M this year, 8M the next and then 3M, but we also have 26M in cap space.

We'd want Marner because we're looking for star players. Forsberg-O'Reilly-Marner would be a great top line.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Thanks very much. I can't speak to the Preds needs and the fit from their end but as a Leafs fan. I could be Ok with Askarov being a big part of the return we get for Marner. The return would also be $11M in cap space for us. We could turn that into Free Agents to address our D and now the return is (say) Roy, Tanev, Askarov and whatever else comes back from Nashville..

Again, I appreciate this doesn't seem to work for Nashville and I also am sure fellow Leafs fans may disagree with me also. I guess I just wondered if Askarov was untouchable as I don't like the Saros return for Marner

I don't understand the desire for a prospect goalie for the Leafs. To me, that's a team that should be "all in" to try to win in the next few years. And Saros would be a huge help in that area. Just don't sign him for 6-8 years or give him gaudy NTC/NMC clauses. I don't want Nashville to trade Saros either, mind you, but I just can't see the reasoning for a team that wants to contend like the Leafs trading for a prospect goalie instead of one of the best starters in the league.

 

[BKarchitect]

Trading McD’s salary certainly helps clear some space for a big move whether it is Marner or somebody else…something is definitely brewing with Trotz and co.

 

[Soundgarden]

I don't understand the desire for a prospect goalie for the Leafs. To me, that's a team that should be "all in" to try to win in the next few years. And Saros would be a huge help in that area. Just don't sign him for 6-8 years or give him gaudy NTC/NMC clauses. I don't want Nashville to trade Saros either, mind you, but I just can't see the reasoning for a team that wants to contend like the Leafs trading for a prospect goalie instead of one of the best starters in the league.

Right, they have Matthews in his prime now, they should not be scoffing at a Vezina caliber goalie who can play 65 games a year.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Toronto should look at their roster and realize that they weren't just one player away this season.

Trading Marner is a sign that the current makeup of that roster needs to change. Trading him for a player that's going to take the same amount of cap to re-sign doesn't accomplish anything for Toronto. They'd still be in the same situation.

Couldn't disagree more. To me, the narrative the Leafs are far away from a deep run shows a lack of knowledge. They are a move or two away. Unless Matthews and Nylander are going to get concussed every playoff going forward... They already won a round last year and were the better team against the Bruins. Took game 7 OT to eliminate the Leafs missing half their cap in forwards the series.

 

[eojsmada]

I think people are going to be surprised when Marner is still a Leaf at the beginning of next season, and probably even more surprised when he just walks in FA. He controls his destiny and unless he gets his contract demands in an extension to the place of his choosing, he has no interest in listening to anything to do with waiving his NMC.

 

[HockeyVirus]

For better or worse he was an unknown. A gamble.

The whole world knows what Marner is

How much you wanna bet you'll be the first in line saying trading Marner was a mistake if he pulls a Kessel.

I think anyone talking about Marner as if he is terrible can safely have their opinions on hockey discarded.

I think people are going to be surprised when Marner is still a Leaf at the beginning of next season, and probably even more surprised when he just walks in FA. He controls his destiny and unless he gets his contract demands in an extension to the place of his choosing, he has no interest in listening to anything to do with waiving his NMC.

Just like how Matthews was walking in UFA right? He was forcing his way out when he didn't sign his ELC right away, when he only took 5 years, etc.

People have these fantasies where everyone wants to screw over the Leafs because they assume everyone must hate them as much as they do

 

[JKG33]

How much you wanna bet you'll be the first in line saying trading Marner was a mistake if he pulls a Kessel.

I think anyone talking about Marner as if he is terrible can safely have their opinions on hockey discarded.

If you had any clue what you're talking about, you'd see I doubled down on the fact that trading Kadri was smart even after he won the cup. The return just wasn't what the team needed. Trading Kessel was also smart, you need a culture shift.

I think anyone that thinks this team is a few moves away from a cup can safely have their opinions on hockey discarded

 

[HockeyVirus]

If you had any clue what you're talking about, you'd see I doubled down on the fact that trading Kadri was smart even after he won the cup. The return just wasn't what the team needed. Trading Kessel was also smart, you need a culture shift.

I think anyone that thinks this team is a few moves away from a cup can safely have their opinions on hockey discarded

Annual 100+ point team, multiple franchise players. Solid young players coming up to offer some cheap depth.

Like I said, they need a few changes. I am not holding it against the core for losing in the first round against prime aged contenders 23 and under. They have failed the past 4 seasons, change was needed. We have a new coach that is a good one.

Marner will go on, he will be a franchise players elsewhere and no one should be surprised if he does figure it out. But in Toronto, that is not going to happen. Trying to make it more than that out of some desire to seem like you are a more enlightened fan or something is laughable.

 

[JKG33]

Annual 100+ point team, multiple franchise players. Solid young players coming up to offer some cheap depth.

Like I said, they need a few changes. I am not holding it against the core for losing in the first round against prime aged contenders 23 and under. They have failed the past 4 seasons, change was needed. We have a new coach that is a good one.

Marner will go on, he will be a franchise players elsewhere and no one should be surprised if he does figure it out. But in Toronto, that is not going to happen. Trying to make it more than that out of some desire to seem like you are a more enlightened fan or something is laughable.

They've lost the past 8 years, and failed in at least 5 arguably 6 of those years. These franchise players can have all the 100 pt seasons they want, they've shown for 8 years they're far from franchise players in the playoffs.

What's laughable is defending these guys after 8 years of playoff futility despite contracts that say otherwise

 

[HockeyVirus]

They've lost the past 8 years, and failed in at least 5 arguably 6 of those years. These franchise players can have all the 100 pt seasons they want, they've shown for 8 years they're far from franchise players in the playoffs.

What's laughable is defending these guys after 8 years of playoff futility despite contracts that say otherwise

I am not defending them, I said it needs to look different. Matthews has shown up for several years now. I am not freaking out because he was elite and then got sick and concussed. Nylander as well, took a game to get up to speed and then was elite.

I am not worried about those guys. Marner needs to go, Tavares needs to get much cheaper or go after next season. Woll needs to stay healthy, Knies and the kids need to continue to develop. Not worried.

 

[JKG33]

I am not defending them, I said it needs to look different. Matthews has shown up for several years now. I am not freaking out because he was elite and then got sick and concussed. Nylander as well, took a game to get up to speed and then was elite.

I am not worried about those guys. Marner needs to go, Tavares needs to get much cheaper or go after next season. Woll needs to stay healthy, Knies and the kids need to continue to develop. Not worried.

Matthews has never had an entire playoff where he lived up to his cap hit. Not one single year.

 

[eojsmada]

How much you wanna bet you'll be the first in line saying trading Marner was a mistake if he pulls a Kessel.

I think anyone talking about Marner as if he is terrible can safely have their opinions on hockey discarded.



Just like how Matthews was walking in UFA right? He was forcing his way out when he didn't sign his ELC right away, when he only took 5 years, etc.

People have these fantasies where everyone wants to screw over the Leafs because they assume everyone must hate them as much as they do

Has nothing to do with screwing the Leafs over. Marner wants to stay, but the Leafs aren't going to give him an extension. So, unless his destination is the one he wants with the contract he is going to get, why would he move twice, when he can wait and just move once. The Leafs aren't going to retain 50% of his salary to move him. They will want to do a sign and trade and let the full cap hit go with him to maximize whatever they think they are going to get in a trade.

 

[Legion34]

Eichel is cheaper and plays a more valuable position than Marner. He also hadn't been a playoff disappointment because he never played in the playoffs

Eichel was a much higher percentage of the cap. Had played no where near as well. Was undergoing experimental neck surgery.

Choking in the regular season is worse than playoffs

 

[MNRube]

Nah I don't think that warrants a pass. He brought that pressure on himself by bending over the team as an RFA.

Nashville has a lot of dead cap but an otherwise cheap roster. They could add a Marner cap hit, but I don't see why they'd want Marner in particular

That’s an amateurish view. Toronto has never had a bottom 6, reliable goaltending or a blueline. It’s not just the big scorers. He’s not guaranteed to be a big time performer in a new setting, but if the floor is a PPG winger you are going to have a lot of interest around the league.

 

[Koivu11]

 

[JKG33]

That’s an amateurish view. Toronto has never had a bottom 6, reliable goaltending or a blueline. It’s not just the big scorers. He’s not guaranteed to be a big time performer in a new setting, but if the floor is a PPG winger you are going to have a lot of interest around the league.

Now tell me why they've never had good depth? Could it be from 4 players taking up half the cap? That's largely on those players (Matthews and Marner in particular) for commanding unprecedented RFA contracts

 

[Sypher04]

Kind of a dumb question to ask. Even if the Leafs make Marner available and if the Preds are interested he wouldn’t be able to comment on Marner either way

 

[belair]

Couldn't disagree more. To me, the narrative the Leafs are far away from a deep run shows a lack of knowledge. They are a move or two away. Unless Matthews and Nylander are going to get concussed every playoff going forward... They already won a round last year and were the better team against the Bruins. Took game 7 OT to eliminate the Leafs missing half their cap in forwards the series.

I look at Toronto's defense this season, their goaltending situation, their bottom six depth and then weight it against the competition they had to go up against to get deep into the playoffs. They just didn't have it this year.

The Bruins aren't the big hurdle they have to overcome to win a Championship. They've been the bump in the road they just can't get past.

You look at a team like Dallas, who is a heavy Cup favorite and they're getting that boost from the young, emerging talents they've integrated into a mostly veteran roster. They have the depth at forward, they have the depth on defense and they have that legitimate starter. That's the model that Toronto should be looking to mimic at this stage.

There's no big teardown coming for Toronto.

 

[conFABulator]

I don't understand the desire for a prospect goalie for the Leafs. To me, that's a team that should be "all in" to try to win in the next few years. And Saros would be a huge help in that area. Just don't sign him for 6-8 years or give him gaudy NTC/NMC clauses. I don't want Nashville to trade Saros either, mind you, but I just can't see the reasoning for a team that wants to contend like the Leafs trading for a prospect goalie instead of one of the best starters in the league.

It's a fair question.

How do you "just not sign" Saros to a bad deal when he will be the most coveted free agent goalie to hit the market in years? That sounds easier said than done. It feels like a Bobrovsky deal coming to me. It feels like a one year window for me with Saros and I don't think that's a gamble I think the Leafs should be making.

Askarov is good in part because he doesn't hit the roster or cap this year. We get $11M to spend how we want. That is valuable to us right now. Meanwhile we have a top goalie prospect that could be a strength for us for ten years or so.

This year and in the future the Leafs have Woll and if he can stay healthy it could be good enough if we patch some holes in front of him, which is harder to do if hole-patching money is spent on Saros.

 

[conFABulator]

Part of the return? If a team is dumb enough to give up a goalie prospect that good, for the privilege of paying Marner 8 figures (and either lose him to UFA or re-sign him to a horrible contract) I take that deal and run

I have no idea what Askarov's worth is and I didn't try to guess on the "add". I left that part open for interpretation.

Having said that, an extended Marner has a LOT of value to a team looking for a new best forward.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I look at Toronto's defense this season, their goaltending situation, their bottom six depth and then weight it against the competition they had to go up against to get deep into the playoffs. They just didn't have it this year.

The Bruins aren't the big hurdle they have to overcome to win a Championship. They've been the bump in the road they just can't get past.

You look at a team like Dallas, who is a heavy Cup favorite and they're getting that boost from the young, emerging talents they've integrated into a mostly veteran roster. They have the depth at forward, they have the depth on defense and they have that legitimate starter. That's the model that Toronto should be looking to mimic at this stage.

There's no big teardown coming for Toronto.

Defense? Goaltending? Bruh they held the Bruins to 4 goals in the last 3 games of the series.

 

[belair]

Defense? Goaltending? Bruh they held the Bruins to 4 goals in the last 3 games of the series.

The Bruins weren't the only team that they needed to get past. The Bruins got thoroughly waxed by the Panthers in the next round.

The Leafs' ultimate goal is to win a Championship. And my argument is that they'll need depth to get there.

 

[HockeyVirus]

The Bruins weren't the only team that they needed to get past. The Bruins got thoroughly waxed by the Panthers in the next round.

The Leafs' ultimate goal is to win a Championship. And my argument is that they'll need depth to get there.

You said the issue was defense and goaltending when that hasn't been an issue for years. The Leafs lost because they couldn't score more than 2 goals a game. End of discussion. Had nothing to do with what you said. 4% PP.

If you even watched the series, the Leafs were absolutely lights out defensively. Suffocated the Bruins especially end of the series. Held them to 1 shot in back to back elimination games in the first period. Lost game 7 by 1 goal in OT.

There is not a team out there who is winning the cup winning every game 2-1 no matter how elite they are defensively. Sure they need to be able to win some games that way (and the Leafs do as well), but not every single game. The margin for error is too thin.

Leafs failure is having 50% of the cap being in offensive talent and the past several seasons the offense has been the weak link. The myth the Leafs just get blown out and can't outscore their problems is tired and I am burnt out on having the debate with people who don't even watch the team evidently.

 

[JKG33]

The Bruins weren't the only team that they needed to get past. The Bruins got thoroughly waxed by the Panthers in the next round.

The Leafs' ultimate goal is to win a Championship. And my argument is that they'll need depth to get there.

You're right. You'd have to be a pretty big homer to look at a d-core of Rielly (a #2), McCabe (a #4) and a collection of spare parts and think yup that's the defence of a contender.