(Nov) PTD 2014 Semifinals - (1) Chicago Blackhawks vs. (5) Washington Capitals

[GFS]

[fieldset=(1) Chicago Blackhawks]

Chicago Blackhawks

Valeri Kharlamov - Mark Messier (C) - Alexander Maltsev
Patrik Elias - Steve Yzerman (A) - Pavel Bure
Henrik Zetterberg - Pavel Datsyuk - Marian Hossa
Clark Gillies - Patrice Bergeron - Theo Fleury

Serge Savard - Bobby Orr (A)
Paul Coffey - Guy Lapointe
Sergei Gonchar - Brad McCrimmon

Vladislav Tretiak
Grant Fuhr


PP1
Kharlamov - Messier - Yzerman
Coffey - Orr

PP2
Gillies - Maltsev - Bure
Lapointe - Gonchar


PK1
Zetterberg - Bergeron
Savard - Orr

PK2
Datsyuk - Hossa
Lapointe - McCrimmon

Extra PK
F: Yzerman
D: Coffey

​

[/fieldset]

[fieldset=(5) Washington Capitals]

Esa Tikkanen --- Wayne Gretzky (C) --- Mike Bossy
Alexander Ovechkin --- Peter Forsberg --- Claude Lemieux
Bob Gainey --- Sergei Fedorov --- Jere Lehtinen
Dave Andreychuk --- Ron Francis --- Peter Bondra

Viacheslav Fetisov (A) --- Alexei Kasatonov
Scott Stevens (A) --- Mark Howe
Brian Rafalski --- Vladimir Konstantinov

Ed Belfour
Curtis Joseph​

PP1

Dave Andreychuk - Wanye Gretzky - Mike Bossy
Alexander Ovechkin - Viacheslav Fetisov

PP2

Esa Tikkanen - Peter Forsberg - Ron Francis
Brian Rafalski - Scott Stevens

PK1

Sergei Fedorov - Bob Gainey
Scott Stevens - Vladimir Konstantinov


PK2

Jere Lehtinen - Ron Francis
Viacheslav Fetisov - Alexei Kasatonov

[/fieldset]

Click to read more...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I have to say that I don't see the point of playoff series if GMs aren't supposed to comment.

To me, the entire point of having playoffs in these things is for the more focused discussion that they allow.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I have to say that I don't see the point of playoff series if GMs aren't supposed to comment.

To me, the entire point of having playoffs in these things is for the more focused discussion that they allow.

A good point. I'm definitely open to having some discussion if RB is willing to; however, I will only do so if he's in as well since it wasn't really decided prior to the playoffs starting.

 

[ResilientBeast]

A good point. I'm definitely open to having some discussion if RB is willing to; however, I will only do so if he's in as well since it wasn't really decided prior to the playoffs starting.

I'd be willing to have some back and forth

 

[ResilientBeast]

Esa Tikkanen --- Wayne Gretzky (C) --- Mike Bossy
vs
Valeri Kharlamov - Mark Messier (C) - Alexander Maltsev

I have the better center (greatest ever) and possibly the best pure goal scorer together. Bossy is again clearly better than Maltsev. I have some serious questions about Kharlamov but even then he is still clearly better than Tikkanen.

Overall advantage Washington


Alexander Ovechkin --- Peter Forsberg --- Claude Lemieux
vs
Patrik Elias - Steve Yzerman (A) - Pavel Bure

Hindsight perhaps I should have grabbed Yzerman over Forsberg but as another poster mentioned the idea of Forsberg and Ovechkin together is intriguing. Comparatively Yzerman is better than Forsberg the margin isn't a great as some would believe but it does exist. Emphasising career value, I don't think anyone will disagree with me that Ovechkin is better but a decent margin. And even taking career value into account Elias is better than Lemieux.

Advantage Chicago

Bob Gainey --- Sergei Fedorov --- Jere Lehtinen
vs
Henrik Zetterberg - Pavel Datsyuk - Marian Hossa

My pure shutdown line vs your two way play line. In this actual series I have doubts that these two lines would ever actually play against one another since they serve similar purposes. While all of your players are clearly better offensively than mine (Save Fedorov) I think mine are better defensively obviously the Selke is a bit of a crap shoot, but both of my wingers did win the around 3+ time a piece and are noted for shadow the best of the best and keeping them quiet during the playoffs. Honestly it's too hard to completely compare the to lines since I doubt either of us would like this matchup

Advantage - Either of us depending on who matches up to who, Ideally I'd want this line against either of your first two and I'd assume you'd prefer the same.

Dave Andreychuk --- Ron Francis --- Peter Bondra
vs
Clark Gillies - Patrice Bergeron - Theo Fleury

Interesting bottom two lines for both of us, Francis is definitely above Bergeron and possibly Datsyuk as well. Center depth wins championships, and all my centers are within the top 33 centers all time according the HOH board. Bondra peaked incredibly high with limited support and now with a center who can feed him the puck effecitively he will provide excellent depth scoring and my line should be able to generate some offense with the duo of Francis and Bondra. However Fleury did peak higher and I overall rate him higher. I doesn't close the gap between Bergeron and Francis but definitely helps.

Comparing Andreychuk to Gillies is interesting but I think a battle I'll win Gilliies peaked incredibly high with two 1st all star teams and top 10 finishes in Hart and Selke voting. While Andreychuk with a 3rd team all star 4 times and finishing 4th two other times. Andreychuk also has more points finishes and was select for my team to make my powerplay even better.

Ultimately
Advantage Washington

 

[ResilientBeast]

Now where my team loses some of it's shine

Viacheslav Fetisov (A) --- Alexei Kasatonov
vs
Serge Savard - Bobby Orr (A)

Not much to say, clear win for you not really much to say.

Advantage Chicago

Scott Stevens (A) --- Mark Howe
vs
Paul Coffey - Guy Lapointe

Now I have a chance, Coffey is overall rated better than Stevens but I think given you'd already picked Orr, Coffey might be a bit redundant. Howe is better than Lapointe, and I think I like the chemistry of my pairing more.

Advantage - Tie


Brian Rafalski --- Vladimir Konstantinov
vs
Sergei Gonchar - Brad McCrimmon

Konstantinov and McCrimmon both peaked very highly over a very short period, Konstantinov does have a second top 5 norris vote. They will both be a dependable defensive and physical presence on their pairings and are probably a wash or maybe a very slight advantage to Vladdy. Gonchar is a clear upgrade over Rafalski no question about that.

Advantage - Chicago

 

[ResilientBeast]

Dave Andreychuk - Wanye Gretzky - Mike Bossy
Alexander Ovechkin - Viacheslav Fetisov

vs

Kharlamov - Messier - Yzerman
Coffey - Orr

This is incredibly close, but perhaps I'm a little biased but I'd prefer my set up, since it's clear how my powerplay is designed to run. You've got Ovechkin is his wheel house for the one timers, Andreychuk in front of the net crashing and banging, Bossy ready opposite to Ovechkin to take snipe one, Fetsiov at the top of this diamond moving the puck around and Gretzky down low orchestrating the entire thing. If someone else would like to chime in here that would be appreciated.

Esa Tikkanen - Peter Forsberg - Ron Francis
Brian Rafalski - Scott Stevens

vs
Gillies - Maltsev - Bure
Lapointe - Gonchar

I think I win this matchup fairly handily

Advantage - Overall I'll say I have the better powerplay


Sergei Fedorov - Bob Gainey
Scott Stevens - Vladimir Konstantinov

Jere Lehtinen - Ron Francis
Viacheslav Fetisov - Alexei Kasatonov

vs

Zetterberg - Bergeron
Savard - Orr

Datsyuk - Hossa
Lapointe - McCrimmon

Generally hard to compare our PK units, all of them feature a lot of a incredibly solid defensive forwards.

Advantage - Probably a tie, it's kinda hard to compare effectiveness of PK Units


Belfour

vs

Tretiak

Definitely an advantage for you, I don't see the large gap that you continued to mention in the assassination thread.

Advantage - Chicago but it's not a giant flaw with my team

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Don't have a ton of time right now, but I want to post something tonight, so here's some of the high points...


Gretzky is a talent that must be gameplanned for...he will primarily be facing Chicago's checking line of Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Hossa and top pairing of Savard - Orr. The best way to defeat Gretzky is to not let him have the puck, and that unit of 5 are possession monsters with a defensively elite center. What is Washington's plan for dealing with Orr?


Chicago's above checking line will also be threats to score going the other way, unlike Washington's shutdown line which has great defensive players who offer very little in the way of offense...how long will they be able to keep the puck once they've taken it away?


I could not disagree more with the statement "I think given you'd already picked Orr, Coffey might be a bit redundant." Both Orr and Coffey are dynamic offensive forces that are extremely difficult to gameplan against...with two of them on the same team it's even harder. The opposition won't be able to hide from them or focus one or two particular lines on them. Chicago's top 2 scoring lines also both contain extremely fast and dangerous wingers in both Kharlamov and Bure. If Washington's D step up to help contain the rushes of Orr and Coffey those wingers can be hit with outlet passes. More likely the speed of Kharlamov/Bure will stretch the D opening up space for Orr and Coffey to make the rushes they're famous for.


The goaltending difference was glossed over, but I think it's worth looking at...Tretiak is a top 8 goalie all time in the class of Dryden and perhaps Brodeur/Sawchuk. Belfour is a great goalie, but likely 3 tiers lower than that, definitely below the Brimsek/Gardiner/Vezina tier and likely also below the Benedict/Broda/Durnan tier.


Washington is by no means soft, but who's answering the bell when Messier and Gillies start taking liberties? Stevens can only do so much and he would more than have his hands full with either of those two.


Chicago has better defensive forwards beyond it's main checking line: 1st line: Messier, Yzerman/Elias, and Bergeron/Gillies compared to Tikkanen, Forsberg, Francis for Washington. (Not saying everyone not named here is bad defensively, but these are the guys who are notably good).


How much will Washington be able to use it's center depth with the large amount of minutes Gretzky will be playing?

 

[ResilientBeast]

Don't have a ton of time right now, but I want to post something tonight, so here's some of the high points...


Gretzky is a talent that must be gameplanned for...he will primarily be facing Chicago's checking line of Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Hossa and top pairing of Savard - Orr. The best way to defeat Gretzky is to not let him have the puck, and that unit of 5 are possession monsters with a defensively elite center. What is Washington's plan for dealing with Orr?


Chicago's above checking line will also be threats to score going the other way, unlike Washington's shutdown line which has great defensive players who offer very little in the way of offense...how long will they be able to keep the puck once they've taken it away?


I could not disagree more with the statement "I think given you'd already picked Orr, Coffey might be a bit redundant." Both Orr and Coffey are dynamic offensive forces that are extremely difficult to gameplan against...with two of them on the same team it's even harder. The opposition won't be able to hide from them or focus one or two particular lines on them. Chicago's top 2 scoring lines also both contain extremely fast and dangerous wingers in both Kharlamov and Bure. If Washington's D step up to help contain the rushes of Orr and Coffey those wingers can be hit with outlet passes. More likely the speed of Kharlamov/Bure will stretch the D opening up space for Orr and Coffey to make the rushes they're famous for.


The goaltending difference was glossed over, but I think it's worth looking at...Tretiak is a top 8 goalie all time in the class of Dryden and perhaps Brodeur/Sawchuk. Belfour is a great goalie, but likely 3 tiers lower than that, definitely below the Brimsek/Gardiner/Vezina tier and likely also below the Benedict/Broda/Durnan tier.


Washington is by no means soft, but who's answering the bell when Messier and Gillies start taking liberties? Stevens can only do so much and he would more than have his hands full with either of those two.


Chicago has better defensive forwards beyond it's main checking line: 1st line: Messier, Yzerman/Elias, and Bergeron/Gillies compared to Tikkanen, Forsberg, Francis for Washington. (Not saying everyone not named here is bad defensively, but these are the guys who are notably good).


How much will Washington be able to use it's center depth with the large amount of minutes Gretzky will be playing?

Just to address these pressing comments now. my team posses two of the best pests ever in Lemieux and Tikannen and both of them were not afraid to mix it up and get physical and they'll surely be able to get under your teams skin and start to cause them to get penalized and once Messier and Gillies start getting penalized my PP will rip your team apart.

Your top line has Messier to be the safety valve for the two russians and my top line has Tikkanen to watch out for my top guns. Tikkanen going by Selke records is a better defensive player than Messier. Tik has 4 top 3 finishes while Messier has one top 9 finish.

My second line features Lemeiux and Forsberg who posses proven chemistry and had played with another reckless goal scorer in Kamensky and performed extremely well. Elias's highest Selke finish is 8th, and you neglected Lemieux who is solid both ways and has a higher Selke finish.

Yzerman
Selke - 1st (1999-00), 3rd (1995-96), 4th (1998-98), 5th (2000-01)

Forsberg
Selke – 2nd(1997), 4th(2003), 6th(1998), 8th(1999), 11th(2001)

Yzerman has better finishes but, it should be noted when he had received these finishes his offence had dipped and was 10-20 pts below that of Forsberg.

Bergeron is a good forward defensively but in this sort of super league I doubt he'd be much of a factor offensively and is strictly good defending against my team. While Francis is a vast upgrade over him, and will be effective in generating offence especially when compared to your fourth line.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Containing Orr was made simpler since you'd like to match him against my top line.

Tikkanen - Gretzky - Bossy
Stevens - Howe

Will be the lineup I'll send against your checking line and Orr. No one on this setup is a negative defensively, while they aren't the defensive stalwarts you're sending against them they are more than competent to quickly transition and send the puck down the other way. Gretzky was possibly also one of the best players in allowing his team to keep possession through his incredible vision. Ideally as coach I'd want Esa in Orr's face as much as possible, dumping and chasing and as much as he can checking Orr since if I can physically dominate Orr he'll be less effective, if he tries to rush have Stevens lock on and crush him. I want to physically attack Orr as much as humanly possible in this series.

Howe will provide my own smooth skating defenseman capable of leading a rush as my own Coffey in this unit and Stevens while no slouch offensively will be ready to clock anyone trying to end to end rush like he's done before.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Chicago's above checking line will also be threats to score going the other way, unlike Washington's shutdown line which has great defensive players who offer very little in the way of offense...how long will they be able to keep the puck once they've taken it away?

Offensively I'll make no argument that my checking line is less effective offensively (excluding Fedorov who is better than Datsyuk) but I don't need them to be. Your fourth line is far less effective offensively when compared to mine, and I'm able to spread my offense out more while I concentrate my defense into one singular defensive line (which features straight up better players defensively).

You have excellent two way players but I have all time great players defensively which are solely there to shut out your top unit not necessarily score but just render them entire ineffective.

My fire power offensively amongst other lines more than makes up my shut down lines lack of offensive punch.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Containing Orr was made simpler since you'd like to match him against my top line.

Tikkanen - Gretzky - Bossy
Stevens - Howe

Will be the lineup I'll send against your checking line and Orr. No one on this setup is a negative defensively, while they aren't the defensive stalwarts you're sending against them they are more than competent to quickly transition and send the puck down the other way. Gretzky was possibly also one of the best players in allowing his team to keep possession through his incredible vision. Ideally as coach I'd want Esa in Orr's face as much as possible, dumping and chasing and as much as he can checking Orr since if I can physically dominate Orr he'll be less effective, if he tries to rush have Stevens lock on and crush him. I want to physically attack Orr as much as humanly possible in this series.

So Esa Tikkanen (essentially alone) is going to stop Bobby Orr who is flanked by the ever-steady Serge Savard? As you said, Gretzky and Bossy aren't negatives, but aren't really positives in terms of defense, and bring about zero forechecking, which is your plan. I don't think this will be very effective.

Also, for what it's worth, Orr will very likely play more minutes than any player on either team, so he'll surely be facing more than just your top line.

Howe will provide my own smooth skating defenseman capable of leading a rush as my own Coffey in this unit and Stevens while no slouch offensively will be ready to clock anyone trying to end to end rush like he's done before.

Mark Howe is a fine player, but he isn't in the same universe as Paul Coffey offensively, who is second only to Orr among Dmen.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Mark Howe is a fine player, but he isn't in the same universe as Paul Coffey offensively, who is second only to Orr among Dmen.

I didn't say he was on the same level? I never did, I said he'd fulfil that role in helping transition from defense to offence.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I didn't say he was on the same level? I never did, I said he'd fulfil that role in helping transition from defense to offence.

No, but to me your post reads to say that Howe is capable of leading a rush/starting your teams offense in a similar manner to Coffey (as my own Coffey), which is just not the case at all.