Post-Game Talk: Not good enough.

[LTIR]

Remember how Holland left Detroit? Old, slow, soft, capped out with brutal contracts ,no prospects. He’s doing the exact same here, except we have 97 and 29.

Meh, he also got us Ekholm, Hyman, Kane, Nuge, Ceci etc. The man obviously was trying.
To me his only bad signing was Campbell. If only he lucked out there as well.

Banking on Ceci,Bouchard,Desharnais, Stetcher as RD was another gamble he took.

He is leaving the team as contenders for next year who should cruise into another 100+ pt season

 

[guymez]

This is the softest Oiler playoff team in their history. They’re not built for a long, physical series and game 5 showed how worn out our top players are. When you watched Nashville play the Canucks they punished them almost every chance they got and almost took the series to 7 games when they probably should have been out in 4. The Canucks will potentially go into the next round like they just played some preseason games against us.

That certainly seems to be how things look at this point in time. This just isnt a Physical team at all.
Its not their game.

Its pretty clear that this team isnt a legit SC contender. I mean the goaltending situation in and of itself is clear evidence of that. The physical grind of the playoffs seems to be another factor.

All that being said the response on Saturday will be very telling...at least in terms of their charactor.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Add in somehow Dustin Schwartz has still been employed by the organization. Meanwhile, Ian Clark has done wonders for the canucks goalies similar to Sean Burke and VGK. How Schwartz is still employed is truly mind-boggling.

The Canucks have invested in top pedigree goaltenders for twenty years whether by trade or drafting.They've had two decades of top goaltenders including Luongo, Schneider, Markstrom, Demko (all 1st or high 2nd round picks). Cole has had quality ingredients to work with. Conversely the Oilers 'strategy' has been bailer wire and duct tape trying to rehabilitate old, deeply established veteran goaltenders culminating in a disastrous 5x5 contract to Jack Campbell and a needle in the haystack hope to find a goaltender with marginal picks. Blow through 9 or 10 picks over a decade until Skinner emerged as a mid-level prospect.

It's a night and day approach. Canucks have invested premium assets to ensure quality ingredients at the game's most important position while the Oilers have looked at the position as an after thought recycling older retreads and volume 'strategy' of blowing out mid level picks hoping to have one eventually hit. Skinner finally beat the odds as a mid-level prospect. He was pencilled in as a back-up goaltender through the winning window years ... until the Oilers blew it with Campbell.

Fire Schwartz for his role in betting this team's window and precious cap on Jack Campbell. Not for his protege Skinner for coping and surviving with having to fast track from a slow cook back-up role to deep end starter on a white hot expectant contender. Skinner has met his breaking point with this playoff run,

As to his role, Clarke's own comments about the coaching role which includes amateur scouting support:

“For me, I’m a big believer when it comes to scouting in evaluating the intangibles when it comes to goaltenders. Technique and structure and all those types of things are very tangible. Those are things we can kind of do with our eyes closed. They’re very tangible and very blueprint-y.
“I say this, and I probably shouldn’t, but I say that we can teach a goaltender technique in a weekend,” Clark said with a laugh. “So for me, those things really don’t register for me when I’m evaluating a goalie. What I’m really looking at is the intangible things that I know through my history in the game are much more difficult to teach through nurture.

This is all filtered through his 7 core attributes for playing the hardest position in the game: athleticism, competitiveness, instinctive ability, reactivity, technique, and visual talent. Short memory.

Ian Clarke is excellent as a goaltender coach and guru. But his work is built upon organizational strategy that priorities goaltender through trade and pedigree draft picks. Unfortunately Edmonton has treated the position as largely an after thought. You get what you paid for ... unfortunately in the Oilers case it was a massive UFA investment in a red flag Jack Campbell and Koskinen before that.

The Oilers haven't treated the most important position in the game without any real sophistication or as a strategic priority.

 

[CrazyJoeDavola]

That certainly seems to be how things look at this point in time. This just isnt a Physical team at all.
Its not their game.

Its pretty clear that this team isnt a legit SC contender. I mean the goaltending situation in and of itself is clear evidence of that. The physical grind of the playoffs seems to be another factor.

All that being said the response on Saturday will be very telling...at least in terms of their charactor.

Problem is coaching. All of Van's little fwds are playing physical. Knobby literally told Rishaug that he doesnt value physical play and that he'd rather the players check with their feets and sticks. Thinks hits are a sign that you dont have the puck.

He's just not a good playoff coach. Doesn't get the team playing with the intensity they need to. Tocchet schooled him in G5 with his media prowess calling out his team as well as his lineup changes.

 

[McAsuno]

The Canucks have invested in top pedigree goaltenders for twenty years whether by trade or drafting.They've had two decades of top goaltenders including Luongo, Schneider, Markstrom, Demko (all 1st or high 2nd round picks). Cole has had quality ingredients to work with. Conversely the Oilers 'strategy' has been bailer wire and duct tape trying to rehabilitate old, deeply established veteran goaltenders culminating in a disastrous 5x5 contract to Jack Campbell and a needle in the haystack hope to find a goaltender with marginal picks. Blow through 9 or 10 picks over a decade until Skinner emerged as a mid-level prospect.

It's a night and day approach. Canucks have invested premium assets to ensure quality ingredients at the game's most important position while the Oilers have looked at the position as an after thought recycling older retreads and volume 'strategy' of blowing out mid level picks hoping to have one eventually hit. Skinner finally beat the odds as a mid-level prospect. He was pencilled in as a back-up goaltender through the winning window years ... until the Oilers blew it with Campbell.

Fire Schwartz for his role in betting this team's window and precious cap on Jack Campbell. Not for his protege Skinner for coping and surviving with having to fast track from a slow cook back-up role to deep end starter on a white hot expectant contender. Skinner has met his breaking point with this playoff run,

As to his role, Clarke's own comments about the coaching role which includes amateur scouting support:

“For me, I’m a big believer when it comes to scouting in evaluating the intangibles when it comes to goaltenders. Technique and structure and all those types of things are very tangible. Those are things we can kind of do with our eyes closed. They’re very tangible and very blueprint-y.
“I say this, and I probably shouldn’t, but I say that we can teach a goaltender technique in a weekend,” Clark said with a laugh. “So for me, those things really don’t register for me when I’m evaluating a goalie. What I’m really looking at is the intangible things that I know through my history in the game are much more difficult to teach through nurture.

This is all filtered through his 7 core attributes for playing the hardest position in the game: athleticism, competitiveness, instinctive ability, reactivity, technique, and visual talent. Short memory.

Ian Clarke is excellent as a goaltender coach and guru. But his work is built upon organizational strategy that priorities goaltender through trade and pedigree draft picks. Unfortunately Edmonton has treated the position as largely an after thought. You get what you paid for ... unfortunately in the Oilers case it was a massive UFA investment in a red flag Jack Campbell and Koskinen before that.

The Oilers haven't treated the most important position in the game without any real sophistication or as a strategic priority.

To think Mike Smith would rather work with his own goalie coach during a previous summer that he hired than work with Schwartz to me spoke volume too lol.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Problem is coaching. All of Van's little fwds are playing physical. Knobby literally told Rishaug that he doesnt value physical play and that he'd rather the players check with their feets and sticks. Thinks hits are a sign that you dont have the puck.

He's just not a good playoff coach. Doesn't get the team playing with the intensity they need to. Tocchet schooled him in G5 with his media prowess calling out his team as well as his lineup changes.

Omg. He is just Dallas Eakins 2.0

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

To think Mike Smith would rather work with his own goalie coach during a previous summer that he hired than work with Schwartz to me spoke volume too lol.

He worked with his own goalie coach throughout his NHL career. Then he worked with a physiologist coach late stage career to work on some injury prevention based work. All of which he worked with and under the direction of Schwartz the organization's primary goalie coach. This is widely distorted to somehow shade shade on Schwartz.

Lots of it covered through several sources. One here on the specialist biomechanics training support. Makes sense for a late 30s goalie to explore all options to keep healthy and prolong a well past prime career: Will a New Partner Help Mike Smith?

 

[McAsuno]

He worked with his own goalie coach throughout his NHL career. Then he worked with a physiologist coach late stage career to work on some injury prevention based work. All of which he worked with and under the direction of Schwartz the organization's primary goalie coach. This is widely distorted to somehow shade shade on Schwartz.

I'd really like to see your proof of him actually being under the direction of Schwartz for that. I would still argue that the Oilers having an actual goalie coach like the nucks or avs would change our goalies for the better.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I'd really like to see your proof of him actually being under the direction of Schwartz for that. I would still argue that the Oilers having an actual goalie coach like the nucks or avs would change our goalies for the better.

It's not some sort of magic act. Super funny that people thought it was some sort of amazing ah-hah moment when Campbell requested bringing in Manny Legace to Bakersfield who he had worked with over the summer. Expecting some sort of incredible transformation. Not shockingly the issue wasn't about some amazing new technical coaching but the issue has always been the mental aspect of Jack Campbell's game. Legace didn't transform Campbell.

The Oilers have invested in retread established veteran goaltenders and failed to develop goaltenders in-house for a decade before Skinner onboarded. And then had to take on #1 job responsibilities when the big free agent failed. Helps to identify and work with high quality prospects and tenders as Clarke has had access to in Vancouver and helped with Columbus's goalie pipeline. Oilers have had Talbot who was good for a brief window but has been largely a journeyman for like 1-2 year duration with teams until they weary and seek an upgrade.

 

[McAsuno]

It's not some sort of magic act. Super funny that people thought it was some sort of amazing ah-hah moment when Campbell requested bringing in Manny Legace to Bakersfield who he had worked with over the summer. Expecting some sort of incredible transformation. Not shockingly the issue wasn't about some amazing new technical coaching but the issue has always been the mental aspect of Jack Campbell's game. Legace didn't transform Campbell.

The Oilers have invested in retread established veteran goaltenders and failed to develop goaltenders in-house for a decade before Skinner onboarded. And then had to take on #1 job responsibilities when the big free agent failed. Helps to identify and work with high quality prospects and tenders as Clarke has had access to in Vancouver and helped with Columbus's goalie pipeline. Oilers have had Talbot who was good for a brief window but has been largely a journeyman for like 1-2 year duration with teams until they weary and seek an upgrade.

You do make good points. But from my perspective, when a person isn't getting the job done, then wouldn't that warrant a change? I'd like to know how or why Schwartz continues to stay when we had fired multiple coaches and replaced GM's.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You do make good points. But from my perspective, when a person isn't getting the job done, then wouldn't that warrant a change? I'd like to know how or why Schwartz continues to stay when we had fired multiple coaches and replaced GM's.

The Oilers strategy around goaltending has been polar opposite to Vancouver as I've pointed out. Vancouver's prioritized the position for like twenty years with a steady pipeline of pedigree NHL tenders and prospects. Edmonton has recycle old veteran goalies and spent like 9 middling draft picks over the past decade hoping to find a prospect. The latter failed until Skinner broke though. Schwartz has had success with developmental phase goalies involved in formative years with Skinner, Hart, Broissoit from juniors into NHL goaltenders. There are some results.

But the larger issue is Oilers organization neglecting the position and plugging in old veterans firmly established in their games. Like any business the results are generally correlated to the talent involved and work effort.

Another better, more fulsome article about Smith's late career bio-mechanical work with Francillia. It also reference Smith's mentors as Francilia, Elkin and Schwartz: Mike Smith never stopped fighting. A playoff run would be his ultimate redemption

The Oilers new head of amateur scouting is a former goalie. And the organization hired a specific goaltender scout. Hopefully this will lead to a shift within the organization to place a higher priority of goaltender pedigree. The recycling model has largely not worked expect for Smith and big money gamble on Campbell has been disastrous. Fire Schwartz sure ... but for his involvement in determining red flag Jack Campbell was the guy to bet $25 million on to lead their winning window.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Did anyone hear the Panel earlier thinking Skinner should start next game. Is there any sense in this whatsoever?

 

[foshizzle]

One wonders what the Oilers think either of the TDL and Perry and Brown additions or of the lack of their usage, which ultimately contributes to a feeling of "we got no help"

it was the worst offseason by Holland. We got no significant pieces and as much as I liked the Henrique addition if he can't play and we gave up so much to get him. Real bad look, more mismanagement.

Seems like the team have fairly constant doubts about where they are. Worried about that early in season and theh we got the coach change which I figured would spur the group on but here we are again.

haha maybe they come back in series and all this navel gazing ends up looking silly.

Frank Servalli agrees with you. He continued to rip
Into Holland again today on Stauffer’s show. Stauffer asked him about the deadline- Servalli asked what the oilers did in the offseason? He also criticized Holland for giving away a first when no other contending team had to while getting better. He continued by saying the new GM, whoever he is, needs to be exponentially more aggressive in improving the team

 

[Fishy McScales]

In the playoffs. You serious? should be similar focus.

Last year Drai set a record for 13 goals in first 8 games of a playoffs. Alltime record. He's one of the most dangerous playoff producers ever. He's the top playoff pts game performer tabulated in Pts/G through entire career.

I guarantee you that any time an opponent craps their pants over Draisaitl, it lands on a turn already generated by McDavid.

They will zero in on Connor first and foremost all day, every day. Then Leon if they can.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Love seeing the drama post these games bring. Hope they win tomo and can laugh at all the chicken little posts on here.

Sad to see when social media make headlines using the word "fans". Very few ppl are actually fans. They are nothing more than opportunistic posters waiting for their 5min.

 

[Sra1974]

Love seeing the drama post these games bring. Hope they win tomo and can laugh at all the chicken little posts on here.

Sad to see when social media make headlines using the word "fans". Very few ppl are actually fans. They are nothing more than opportunistic posters waiting for their 5min.

I take it your definition of fan is something like, “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil”. There are massive, dedicated fans of this team who see the flaws and soft underbelly of this team for what it is. They still desperately want them to win, but are frustrated by the play on the ice and the franchises mismanagement of the greatest draft gift one could ever expect.

Yeah it gets emotional sometimes, and overly personal about some of the players but it’s fair to call this franchise out for what it is - a disappointment.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Could be a wrist ,elbow, shoulder, hand injury. McDavid basically passed up a breakaway for a low percentage lame pass to no one last night. Maybe there is a reason to him not doing what he has been doing for a while.

McDavid , Bouchard, Drai and Hyman cost us the game last night..

He's being doing things like this all year. I bet he needs surgery or something.

 

[guymez]

Problem is coaching. All of Van's little fwds are playing physical. Knobby literally told Rishaug that he doesnt value physical play and that he'd rather the players check with their feets and sticks. Thinks hits are a sign that you dont have the puck.

He's just not a good playoff coach. Doesn't get the team playing with the intensity they need to. Tocchet schooled him in G5 with his media prowess calling out his team as well as his lineup changes.

I dont think thats the case.
Which of the Oilers forwards and D do you thinkk are naturally physical in their game?

 

[guymez]

Frank Servalli agrees with you. He continued to rip
Into Holland again today on Stauffer’s show. Stauffer asked him about the deadline- Servalli asked what the oilers did in the offseason? He also criticized Holland for giving away a first when no other contending team had to while getting better. He continued by saying the new GM, whoever he is, needs to be exponentially more aggressive in improving the team

This couldnt be more obvious.

 

[Arty Spooners Bsmnt]

The Canucks have invested in top pedigree goaltenders for twenty years whether by trade or drafting.They've had two decades of top goaltenders including Luongo, Schneider, Markstrom, Demko (all 1st or high 2nd round picks). Cole has had quality ingredients to work with. Conversely the Oilers 'strategy' has been bailer wire and duct tape trying to rehabilitate old, deeply established veteran goaltenders culminating in a disastrous 5x5 contract to Jack Campbell and a needle in the haystack hope to find a goaltender with marginal picks. Blow through 9 or 10 picks over a decade until Skinner emerged as a mid-level prospect.

It's a night and day approach. Canucks have invested premium assets to ensure quality ingredients at the game's most important position while the Oilers have looked at the position as an after thought recycling older retreads and volume 'strategy' of blowing out mid level picks hoping to have one eventually hit. Skinner finally beat the odds as a mid-level prospect. He was pencilled in as a back-up goaltender through the winning window years ... until the Oilers blew it with Campbell.

Fire Schwartz for his role in betting this team's window and precious cap on Jack Campbell. Not for his protege Skinner for coping and surviving with having to fast track from a slow cook back-up role to deep end starter on a white hot expectant contender. Skinner has met his breaking point with this playoff run,

As to his role, Clarke's own comments about the coaching role which includes amateur scouting support:

“For me, I’m a big believer when it comes to scouting in evaluating the intangibles when it comes to goaltenders. Technique and structure and all those types of things are very tangible. Those are things we can kind of do with our eyes closed. They’re very tangible and very blueprint-y.
“I say this, and I probably shouldn’t, but I say that we can teach a goaltender technique in a weekend,” Clark said with a laugh. “So for me, those things really don’t register for me when I’m evaluating a goalie. What I’m really looking at is the intangible things that I know through my history in the game are much more difficult to teach through nurture.

This is all filtered through his 7 core attributes for playing the hardest position in the game: athleticism, competitiveness, instinctive ability, reactivity, technique, and visual talent. Short memory.

Ian Clarke is excellent as a goaltender coach and guru. But his work is built upon organizational strategy that priorities goaltender through trade and pedigree draft picks. Unfortunately Edmonton has treated the position as largely an after thought. You get what you paid for ... unfortunately in the Oilers case it was a massive UFA investment in a red flag Jack Campbell and Koskinen before that.

The Oilers haven't treated the most important position in the game without any real sophistication or as a strategic priority.

And it's never worked out for them.

 

[Oilhawks]

And it's never worked out for them.

Agreed, in the sense that it's masked other issues with roster construction / weaknesses and carried them further than it should have. I guess the exception being Luongo in 2011, where the whole team were epic-tier chokers

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

And it's never worked out for them.

How hasn't it worked out for them? They went to a Cup Final with Luongo who also won two Olympic Golds as a top goaltender. They went to a game 7 Stanley Cup defeat. Turned Luongo into another top young goaltender Markstrom who's been a strong #1. Drafted Schneider who they turned into a top 10 Draft Pick who became their captain Bo Horvatt who was a strong top six player who they eventually turned into a 1st round pick, prospect and NHL player. Demko has delivered Vezina contending goaltending though often injured.

Prioritizing goaltending creates options and flexibilities. They've received excellent goaltender but no player at any position overcomes shitty management.