Player Discussion Not developing Reinhart at 3rd line center last year + Disco's use of him

[sabrebuild]

Murray changed his mind about Sam after he drafted Jack, traded for ROR and Larsson/Zemgus emerged as viable 3C candidates. The *plan* was always a top 6 and a bottom 6, not a sheltered 3rd offensive line. Had Sam made the team as a rookie with Nolan, things may have been different but people simply passed him by.

If Sam can maximize his current opportunity then Murray may change the plan from a top 6 to 3 scoring lines with Larsson as 4C. However, the complete ineptitude Murray has displayed in building the defense, Sam is likely trade bait as a sweetener to address the 5 gaping holes on defense. Will need a sweetener to clear a Murray mercenary flop contract to open cap space, Sam's being showcased.

What ever are you going on about muffin?

 

[sabrebuild]

Pittsburgh played second overall pick Jordan Staal as the 3C during their Cup runs and win. The team that they played in back to back Cup finals had Filppula at 3C.

Having a really good 3C works.

Chicago: Bolland and Vermette
LA: Richards or Carter, depending on how you saw the line.

Some ppl refuse to understand the talented depth required to build a winner.

Same people who seemingly thought they were built to win in the playoffs already and this season is a disaster...

 

[dkollidas]

I really don't see the reason not to do this (O'Reilly-Eichel-Reinhart-Larsson down the middle).

Also, looking ahead to next season, I could see a scenario where the Bylsma idea of "pairs" works well in this scenario...

AAAA-O'Reilly-Okposo
Nylander-Eichel-BBBB
Kane-Reinhart-CCCC
Foligno-Larsson-DDDD

Those four spots could be filled by any of Girgensons/Baptiste/Fasching/Bailey/Carrier/Gionta(Ennis/Moulson)

 

[ZZamboni]

For a developing young player .... yes he played great last year.

For a 6 year vet .... no, he didn't play great. Pretty good, sure, but not great.

Which one was Reinhart last year?

Some want almost instant domination because afterall, he was a 2nd overall so he must dominate!!!!!!


If in a couple years, Reinhart develops into a solid 3rd line center with spot duty on the top 6, that is a great outcome! That means we have nice depth. Some of you fools are getting too wrapped up in ZOMG but he's a 2nd overall... he must be way way better... gahhhhh!!!

I'm not worried about Reinhart in the least. He's developing nicely.

 

[stokes84]

For a developing young player .... yes he played great last year.

For a 6 year vet .... no, he didn't play great. Pretty good, sure, but not great.

Which one was Reinhart last year?

Some want almost instant domination because afterall, he was a 2nd overall so he must dominate!!!!!!


If in a couple years, Reinhart develops into a solid 3rd line center with spot duty on the top 6, that is a great outcome! That means we have nice depth. Some of you fools are getting too wrapped up in ZOMG but he's a 2nd overall... he must be way way better... gahhhhh!!!

I'm not worried about Reinhart in the least. He's developing nicely.

You can't be serious. We tanked to get this kid. If he's anything other than a top line, all star level player, it's very disappointing. Getting the player you described is a great outcome for a 2nd rounder. It's an absolute disaster for a tank job draft pick.

 

[1972]

You can't be serious. We tanked to get this kid. If he's anything other than a top line, all star level player, it's very disappointing. Getting the player you described is a great outcome for a 2nd rounder. It's an absolute disaster for a tank job draft pick.

Don't even waste your time...

 

[wunderpanda]

Did Murray really do that? I haven't read anything where he confronted the coaches in front of the team and second guessed them in the media. Maybe I'm not tracking...

I cannot remember exact dates of the shows, but Murray & Bylsma both mentioned Tim walking in the locker room after games and yelling. It was mentioned jokingly during locker clean out or end of season last year, but has been mentioned since.

Murray suggesting Sam at 3C while Bylsma had him at wing is second guessing. Honestly, Murray dictating to Bylsma happened enough that it's a meme here after every strategic decision.

 

[OkimLom]

You can't be serious. We tanked to get this kid. If he's anything other than a top line, all star level player, it's very disappointing. Getting the player you described is a great outcome for a 2nd rounder. It's an absolute disaster for a tank job draft pick.

Well to be fair, if Sam is a 3rd line center, as people are hoping to develop him at right now for reasons of spreading out our talent and creating matchup problems, then it's not necessarily a bad thing.

You'll have Eichel at center, along with ROR two great 1-2 punches for center. If Reinhart becomes as good as ROR and we can have him on the 3rd line creating headaches for other teams, then that's good for us, not to mention if we have injuries.

Now, if we're talking about 3rd line centers like Larsson is a 3rd line center, then yes we then would have to worry if we're looking back and looking at his draft status and determining if it was successful or not.

 

[threeVo]

I no longer expect Reinhart to be a player that can drive his line regardless of who he is playing with, which stinks for a 2nd overall pick. You hope to find a guy that isnt a complementary piece to your stars, but is actually a star himself.

Hes a very solid player away from the puck, but from a 2OA i think you expect to get a guy who can succeed on his own merit, not when Jack Eichel is on your line

 

[Jim Bob]

I cannot remember exact dates of the shows, but Murray & Bylsma both mentioned Tim walking in the locker room after games and yelling. It was mentioned jokingly during locker clean out or end of season last year, but has been mentioned since.

Murray suggesting Sam at 3C while Bylsma had him at wing is second guessing. Honestly, Murray dictating to Bylsma happened enough that it's a meme here after every strategic decision.

Murray has said that he doesn't dictate, but he very vocally gives his opinion and engages in passionate conversations about coaching decisions.

If Reinhart usage were a deal breaker for Murray, I expect that Bylsma would have been gone by now.

And honestly, the Reinhart at 3C idea has had plenty of supporters and detractors here.

Plenty of people have stated opinions that Reinhart on the 3rd line is a waste of a 2OV pick.

Personally, basing player usage on draft slot is ill-advised. Especially when you consider that not all 2OV picks are created equal.

I don't care where players were drafted or what Murray gave up in trade for them. All that matters is putting this team in the best position for now and the future to compete.

As such, Reinhart should be at center, IMO. And given that Bylsma refuses to keep him there, I expect that Reinhart at center is a pipedream not really worth talking about until Bylsma is fired.

 

[1972]

If we drafted Ristolainen at second overall and Sam at 8th overall I think perception would change. We didn't miss on the Reinhart pick, the top players in that draft all had major flaws and are not as good as advertised.

 

[ZZamboni]

You can't be serious. We tanked to get this kid. If he's anything other than a top line, all star level player, it's very disappointing. Getting the player you described is a great outcome for a 2nd rounder. It's an absolute disaster for a tank job draft pick.

Don't even waste your time...

Yea, don't bother to look at other successful teams 3rd line centers and their usage. Because zomg he was a product of a tank year and hell or high water he MUST get 70 points and be on our top line or he's a bust!!

Too hung up on draft position. Not looking at what centers are ahead of him. What centers are on other successful teams ahead of 3rd line centers. 2nd overall picks must fit into this narrow mold/type you created in your own mind.

I have no issues with the way Reinhart is developing.

 

[Der Jaeger]

You can't be serious. We tanked to get this kid. If he's anything other than a top line, all star level player, it's very disappointing. Getting the player you described is a great outcome for a 2nd rounder. It's an absolute disaster for a tank job draft pick.

Well, glad we made some progress. By your definition (top line all-star), your boy Draisaitl is also disappointing.

At least now we're comparing two disappointing prospects instead of lamenting that we didn't pick Draisaitl.

 

[stokes84]

If we drafted Ristolainen at second overall and Sam at 8th overall I think perception would change. We didn't miss on the Reinhart pick, the top players in that draft all had major flaws and are not as good as advertised.

That is true, but the means in which we acquired the player do matter and will always stick to him. He was one of our rewards for "suffering". Maybe it's not fair to him, but it's his lot in NHL life.

In 2013, when it became abundantly clear that we were going to go to the bottom for a pick, I was already irritated that we were doing it in a bad draft year. But then you talk yourself into thinking that our guy could be better than you think, it happens all the time. Now, it seems apparent that I (and surely others) were right to be disappointed that the year was bad. I thought the same thing when the bills drafted Manuel. Really, this is the year you draft a QB? Pure buffaluck.

 

[stokes84]

Well, glad we made some progress. By your definition (top line all-star), your boy Draisaitl is also disappointing.

At least now we're comparing two disappointing prospects instead of lamenting that we didn't pick Draisaitl.

Draisaitl is the better player, but he's still not a good top 2 pick.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Yea, don't bother to look at other successful teams 3rd line centers and their usage. Because zomg he was a product of a tank year and hell or high water he MUST get 70 points and be on our top line or he's a bust!!

Too hung up on draft position. Not looking at what centers are ahead of him. What centers are on other successful teams ahead of 3rd line centers. 2nd overall picks must fit into this narrow mold/type you created in your own mind.

I have no issues with the way Reinhart is developing.

The Hockey HOF is etching Jordan Staal's name off the Cup as we speak. 2nd overall picks who don't play top line roles don't get on the Cup.

 

[stokes84]

Yea, don't bother to look at other successful teams 3rd line centers and their usage. Because zomg he was a product of a tank year and hell or high water he MUST get 70 points and be on our top line or he's a bust!!

Too hung up on draft position. Not looking at what centers are ahead of him. What centers are on other successful teams ahead of 3rd line centers. 2nd overall picks must fit into this narrow mold/type you created in your own mind.

I have no issues with the way Reinhart is developing.

You have low standards. To win the cup, you have to hit some home runs. We haven't.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Draisaitl is the better player, but he's still not a good top 2 pick.

He's still disappointing though, by your definition, if GMTM picked him.

 

[stokes84]

The Hockey HOF is etching Jordan Staal's name off the Cup as we speak. 2nd overall picks who don't play top line roles don't get on the Cup.

Tell me when we have the two best centers in the world on our team. I'll be waiting.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Tell me when we have the two best centers in the world on our team. I'll be waiting.

Straw man. As if the only way to have real depth is to have the best two centers in the world.

Guys named Staal, Carter, Kessel, and Sharp all played important roles on the "third" line.

Cup winner play three good lines and a fourth line that plays defense. And no one thinks Carter, Staal, Kessel, or Sharp were disappointing. Teams were frustrated with the depth Cup winners had.

Rolling Eichel, ROR, and Reinhart is going to be hard to match in the future.

You'd probably have little issue with a ROR, Eichel, Draisaitl trio.

 

[1972]

The Hockey HOF is etching Jordan Staal's name off the Cup as we speak. 2nd overall picks who don't play top line roles don't get on the Cup.

Yes, because they sucked and got superstars (Malkin and Crosby). Lets be real, if you draft Jordan Staal at second overall you either ****ed up or the draft was terrible. I'm that case they ****ed up but for lucky two straight years before. This is so off topic...

 

[ZZamboni]

You have low standards. To win the cup, you have to hit some home runs. We haven't.

Depends on your definition of a homerun. I think a lot of players we have are homeruns or developing into them

"NHL 1st line only" standards for all 1st round draft picks are too high of standards. Set yourself up to be constantly disappointed in the development of prospects. What a sad way to enjoy sports.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Yes, because they sucked and got superstars (Malkin and Crosby). Lets be real, if you draft Jordan Staal at second overall you either ****ed up or the draft was terrible. I'm that case they ****ed up but for lucky two straight years before. This is so off topic...

Remember when we were hoping to trade prime Jason Pominville+ for Jordan Staal so he could be our 1C?

He was good.

 

[stokes84]

Depends on your definition of a homerun. I think a lot of players we have are homeruns or developing into them

"NHL 1st line only" standards for all 1st round draft picks are too high of standards. Set yourself up to be constantly disappointed in the development of prospects. What a sad way to enjoy sports.

You act as though we are talking about a standard 1st round pick. When you are in the top 2, those standards do apply, and anything short is disappointing.

 

[stokes84]

Remember when we were hoping to trade prime Jason Pominville+ for Jordan Staal so he could be our 1C?

He was good.

The people that were hoping for that were wrong. And believe me, not everyone was hoping for that.