Norris trophy voting: complete record

[EagleBelfour]

Good to hear. The ATD is awesome, but, well...wear a helmet.

... And a jockstrap!

 

[Velociraptor]

Also, Ron Stackhouse is listed twice.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Also, Ron Stackhouse is listed twice.

You're spending way too much time staring at the list.

(Thanks, I fixed it)

 

[Say Hey Kid]

... And a jockstrap!

with a cup inside it!

 

[DL44]

It's so interesting seeing the dominant Dman per era (via the vote)....

Doug Harvey - Early 50's to the 60's
Pierre Pilote - 60's to the Late 60's
Bobby Orr - Late 60's to Mid-70's
Dennis Potvin - Mid 70's to Early 80's
Ray Bourque - Mid 80's to Late 90's
Nik Lidstrom - Late 90's to Present Day.... to the early 10's

Erik Karlsson - early 10's to....


Which Dman of the present do you think will dominate the next era based on Norris voting??

I think it will be Karlsson considering Age and the unique skillset.

But the other contenders.: Doughty, Weber, Petriangelo, Suter, Keith, other...

Anyone think This next era will not be the Karlsson era?


--------

By the way... I love this thread! such a great simple way to filter the big boys...
If we could get an annual update on this, it would be a great watch!

 

[leo4502003]

Missing Votes from original post

1954/55 Norris Votes (7th onward) Harry Howell, Bill Gadsby, Marcel Pronovost, Jim Thomson and Tom Johnson (all with 3 each); Allan Stanley and Butch Bouchard (2 each); Jim Morrison and Leo Boivin (1 each).

1976/77 Norris Votes (6th onward) Brad Park (19), Jim Schoenfeld (3)

Source: NewspaperArchive.com (Lethbridge paper)

 

[Pominville Knows]

I was just wondering if the complete Norris voting results are to be found collected somewhere?

Thanks in advance.

 

[DL44]

Need this thread to be Updated!!

2012

#|Player|Team|PTS|1st|2st|3st|4st|5st
1|Erik Karlsson|OTT|1069|66|31|32|9|5
2|Shea Weber|NSH|1057|49|54|32|9|2
3|Zdeno Chara|BOS|950|32|48|47|19|2
4|Alex Pietrangelo|STL|381|0|7|20|68|28
5|Nicklas Lidstrom|DET|132|0|5|4|16|29
6|Dan Girardi|NYR|70|2|0|4|6|12
7|Brian Campbell|FLA|58|0|2|2|6|16
8|Ryan Suter|NSH|57|0|1|3|5|20
9|Kris Letang|PIT|40|0|0|4|3|11

2013

#|Player|Team|Pts|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th
1|Subban P.K.|MTL|1266|66|56|35|12|3
2|Suter Ryan|MIN|1230|65|54|34|8|8
3|Letang Kris|PIT|914|31|37|42|39|18
4|Beauchemin Francois|ANA|290|1|6|20|33|39
5|Chara Zdeno|BOS|289|10|9|16|8|22
6|Keith Duncan|CHI|281|1|8|16|36|27
7|Ekman-Larsson Oliver|PHO|79|3|1|2|8|8
8|Weber Shea|NSH|49|0|1|4|5|7
9|Doughty Drew|LA|43|0|1|2|7|5
10|Kronwall Niklas|DET|33|0|2|1|3|5
11|Phaneuf Dion|TOR|28|0|1|1|4|4
12|Yandle Keith|PHO|27|0|0|0|6|9
13|Markov Andrei|MTL|23|1|0|1|1|5
14|Pietrangelo Alex|STL|23|0|2|0|2|3

2014

#|Player|Team|PTS|1|2|3|4|5
1|Keith Duncan|CHI|1033|68|35|17|7|2
2|Chara Zdeno|BOS|667|21|39|22|19|17
3|Weber Shea|NSH|638|26|23|29|19|15
4|Suter Ryan|MIN|351|9|12|20|22|11
5|Pietrangelo Alex|STL|304|3|13|18|25|18
6|Doughty Drew|LA|284|8|6|17|18|23
7|Karlsson Erik|OTT|70|0|5|3|4|8
8|Mcdonagh Ryan|NYR|53|0|1|4|5|11
9|Hedman Victor|TB|42|1|1|0|5|10
10|Giordano Mark|CGY|36|1|0|2|3|7
11|Niskanen Matt|PIT|36|0|1|2|5|4

So getting back to my "Next Era" post from a couple above..

Notables contenders for owning the next era of the Norris vote:
Weber, 2nd, 8th, 3rd
Karlsson, 1st, 7th
Subban, 1st
Suter, 8th, 2nd, 4th
Keith, 6th, 1st
Pietrangelo, 4th, 14th, 5th

I personally think it'll come down to one of 2 players... Weber and Karlsson.

The notable missing name: Doughty. He just isn't a consistent regular season player.. not a Norris type player. Definitely a Conn Smythe type tho...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

The thread was already updated

 

[DL44]

The thread was already updated

I checked for Subban and didn't see him listed... then i looked at Weber and Chara and didn't see them updated after 2011... (none were in fact updated after 2011 when I initially posted)

Edit... awe cheechy sneeky updates!

Thanks! much better...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I checked for Subban and didn't see him listed... then i looked at Weber and Chara and didn't see them updated after 2011... (none were in fact updated after 2011 when I initially posted)

Edit... awe cheechy sneeky updates!

Thanks! much better...

Must have had an old version of this cached in your browser; I've been updating this yearly. (But I'm not bumping it when I update... not going to do all the work for the ATDers)

 

[DL44]

The ACTIVE players listed in the OP's All-time list:



Francois Beauchemin

12-13: 4th

Jay Bouwmeester

06-07: 11th

Dan Boyle

06-07: 4th
08-09: 5th
09-10: 6th


Brent Burns

07-08: 12th

Dustin Byfuglien

10-11: 7th

Brian Campbell

06-07: 10th
07-08: 5th
11-12: 7th

Zdeno Chara

02-03: 7th
03-04: 2nd
05-06: 4th
07-08: 3rd
08-09: 1st
09-10: 8th
10-11: 3rd
11-12: 3rd
12-13: 5th
13-14: 2nd

Drew Doughty

09-10: 3rd
12-13: 9th
13-14: 6th

Oliver Ekman-Larsson

12-13: 7th

Christian Ehrhoff

09-10: 9th
10-11: 8th

Mark Giordano

13-14: 10th

Dan Girardi

11-12: 6th

Sergei Gonchar

99-00: 5th
00-01: 6th
01-02: 4th
02-03: 4th
03-04: 9th
06-07: 7th
07-08: 4th

Mike Green

07-08: 7th
08-09: 2nd
09-10: 2nd

Victor Hedman

13-14: 9th

Erik Karlsson

11-12: 1st
13-14: 7th

Duncan Keith

07-08: 11th
08-09: 6th
09-10: 1st
10-11: 9th
12-13: 6th
13-14: 1st

Niklas Kronwall

12-13: 10th

Kris Letang

10-11: 6th
11-12: 9th
12-13: 3rd

Andrei Markov

07-08: 6th
08-09: 6th
12-13: 13th

Ryan McDonagh

13-14: 8th

Matt Niskanen

13-14: 11th

Dion Phaneuf

05-06: 8th
06-07: 6th
07-08: 2nd
08-09: 12th
12-13: 11th

Alex Pietrangelo

11-12: 4th
12-13: 14th
13-14: 5th

Brent Seabrook

09-10: 13th

Sheldon Souray

06-07: 8th
08-09: 13th

Mark Streit

08-09: 8th
09-10: 10th

P.K. Subban

12-13: 1st

Ryan Suter

09-10: 11th
11-12: 8th
12-13: 2nd
13-14: 4th

Kimmo Timonen

06-07: 5th

Lubomir Visnovsky

05-06: 10th
10-11: 4th

Shea Weber

08-09: 4th
09-10: 7th
10-11: 2nd
11-12: 2nd
12-13: 8th
13-14: 3rd

Denis Wideman

08-09: 11th

Keith Yandle

10-11: 5th
12-13: 12th

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

updated through 2014-15.

The top 13 in voting fit the criteria

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=772000&navid=nhl:topheads

 

[ImporterExporter]

Rough to see Doughty get the most 1st place votes. Already posted why he shouldn't have really been up for the award in the first place but whatever. He's like Apple. Name recognition goes a long way with voters. He's had better efforts in the regular season where he didn't finish as high in the voting. Of course i poked my head in over at the general forum and people were typical juvenile and moronic in saying that Doughty got robbed. There are some very naive people IMHO, who really don't know hockey.....I left quickly.

Keith at 7 is a little surprising. He was personally #3 for me, based largely on the advanced metrics. Thought he'd be at least top 5 though.

Weber over Josi doesn't make sense either when you look at all the numbers that matter for D. Saw about 6-7 Preds games as well and thought Roman was the slightly better player as well.

 

[Lubu]

Actually Doughty had his best regular season of his career and I think even Doughty is on record of saying something similar.

 

[McOylerz]

31 writers didn't even have Doughty in their top 5. I think it was LeBrun who said we need to find out who those people are.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Well now I have to go back and dig up my long post on why Doughty was/is over-rated. He wasn't the best Dman in the NHL, not even top 3. Numbers across the board don't lie.....I'll be back....

 

[McOylerz]

I'm not saying he should have won the award, but he should be nearly everyone's top 5 for a d-man in 2015. The fact he plays on the west coast doesn't help his case for the east writers who rarely watch him play. 20% of the writers think he isn't top 5, but 33% think he is #1? Something is off there.

 

[ImporterExporter]

OK. Doughty's seasons was Norris Winning good......why exactly?

1. Points - 46 (Tied for 14th among Dmen, well behind Karlsson and Subban who were other finalists)

2. Blocked Shots - 144 (24th in NHL better than Karlsson and Subban)

3. +/- = +3 (Tied for 96th in NHL among D. Disclaimer is this is a pretty low end stat)

4. Takeaways - 12 (ranks 495th in the NHL among all skaters. Karlsson for example, led all D with 59 and was 22nd overall)

5. Giveaways - 80 (ranks 12th overall. Karlsson had 99 but takes the puck away far more for a better split/ratio)

6. Hits - 152 (ranks 96th overall)

7. Corsi Factor Overall = 13th overall (all Dmen with at least 1500 minutes. Karlsson was 2nd)

8. Goals Against per 60 mins = 42nd overall (Subban ranked 14th, Karlsson 22nd)

9. Goals For per 60 mins = 33rd overall (Karlsson ranked 6th, Subban 11th)


Doughty didn't score well enough nor were his defensive metrics in the upper end of the league either. The only thing that Doughty was legitimately elite in was average ice time which he ranked 2nd at 28:59 per night. Karlsson was 3rd at 27:15. So yes, Doughty carried a heavy workload each night, but his overall numbers aren't exactly painting a picture of somebody who was one of the 2-3 best Dmen in the league. One stat can't put you up or down in the overall rankings.

The Kings underachieved much of the year and missed the playoff entirely as defending Cup champs. The Senators for example went 24-3-3 down the stretch to make the playoffs and Karlsson was very big part of that surge.

 

[edinson]

Well, of the numbers you showed, points is the only one I would put heavy weight on when evaluating a player. The real-time stats you use say more about playing style than player quality IMO (not to mention that they're skewed by arena biases), while Corsi and on-ice-goal stats for all situations clumped together do not interest me very much.

I'm not sure if Doughty was the second best defenceman in the league this year but I think a case for him being among the top could be made: He's second in CF% 5-on-5 among Dmen who played more than 1000 5-on-5 minutes, while trailing only Suter in 5-on-5 avg Ice time. He most certainly is one of the absolute best 5-on-5 defenceman in the league. What holds him down IMO is that he is not as good on the PP as some other elite defencemen. I'd probably still have him on my ballot (i.e. top 5) this year, not sure where exactly though.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

31 writers didn't even have Doughty in their top 5. I think it was LeBrun who said we need to find out who those people are.

When Jeter announced his retirement the Baseball Writers wisely decided to make the HoF ballots public, although they didn't have much of a choice. 4 of the top 5 all time % wise are white players who are not even close to being top 5 Brett, Ripken, Ryan, and Seaver, but Aaron and Mays (only 15th!) didn't crack the top 5. Race wasn't a major factor. There are other problems as well. Of the top 3 players all time in WAR, Babe Ruth is 12th percentage wise, Walter Johnson got only 83.63%, and Cy Young got only 76% of the vote. Should the HHoF ballots be made public as well?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Updated through 2017

The top 11 made the cut in 2016 and top 13 made the cut in 2017.

Strangely, if we went by Sturminator's old standard, 1st-6th, 10th, 12th, and 13th would have made the standard in 2017, with 7th, 8th, 9th, and 11th missing it: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=133678527&postcount=106

 

[VanIslander]

Some players have obviously had impressive finishes lately (Burns' 1st, 2nd; Doughty's 1st, 2nd, and to some degree 7th; Karlsson's 2nd, 2nd).

Some haven't added so much: Chara, Subban, Letang, Weber and Keith (though Duncan has one 4th recently).

These two twentysomethings are starting to build a resume:

Victor Hedman

13-14: 9th
15-16: 7th
16-17: 3rd

Roman Josi

14-15: 5th
15-16: 5th
16-17: 11th

These two aren't so impressive:

Mark Giordano

13-14: 10th
14-15: 6th
16-17: 8th

Dustin Byfuglien

10-11: 7th
14-15: 12th
16-17: 12th

When some players get 100-120 votes, how significant is it to include those who get 5-10?

I usually cite finalists and will include 4ths and 5ths if the voting between them and the third finalist isn't so much. I don't think Big Buff's recent 12th and 12th in Norris voting adds anything significant.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Weber's record looks very good right now, especially considering his 2nd place finishes were extremely close to being 1st place finishes (keeping in mind the competition wasn't that strong).Now if only he could have a half-decent run in the playoffs.

Thanks for updating this, very useful.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Weber hasn't had any voting totals to be updated for the last three years. What are you talking about?

I love Weber as a long time Preds fan who cheered the trade as a win-win. But in terms of this discussion, I don't get what you are talking about.

I don't understand what you mean.

Here's Weber's Norris record from the OP:

Shea Weber

08-09: 4th
09-10: 7th
10-11: 2nd
11-12: 2nd
12-13: 8th
13-14: 3rd
14-15: 4th
15-16: 10th
16-17: 7th