"No one is winning" after the Chicago Wolves and Carolina Hurricanes divorce

[TheCalderFarmstead]

"No one is winning" after the Chicago Wolves and Carolina Hurricanes divorce

The Chicago Wolves are the AHL's first unaffiliated team since the 1994-95 season. The Hurricanes are without a minor-league affiliate. Sean Shapiro looks at how we got here and what potentially comes next.

eprinkside.com

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[axecrew]

"No one is winning" after the Chicago Wolves and Carolina Hurricanes divorce

The Chicago Wolves are the AHL's first unaffiliated team since the 1994-95 season. The Hurricanes are without a minor-league affiliate. Sean Shapiro looks at how we got here and what potentially comes next.

eprinkside.com

Nobody can read it since it's behind a paywall...typical

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Wolves deserve all the losing and revenue losses they get this season

 

[axecrew]

Wolves deserve all the losing and revenue losses they get this season

Care to explain why?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Care to explain why?

How they have handled their affiliations and then deciding they are better than affiliation. Sucks to suck.

It seems they have accepted the errors of their way. They are asking for Carolina prospects for the team

 

[axecrew]

How they have handled their affiliations and then deciding they are better than affiliation. Sucks to suck.

It seems they have accepted the errors of their way. They are asking for Carolina prospects for the team

If you only knew as much as you think you do....Sorry to bore the others on here but lets talk about history and things I can prove...
#1 Chicago has always gone into each affiliation agreement with the same requirements...they will help develop your players to get them to the NHL...in return you provide them with players including veterans to help them compete for the Calder Cup each year. They are independently owned and don't have an NHL sugar daddy to pay their bills...they pay them by putting ass's in the seats pure and simple and no one likes to watch a losing team.
#2 Look at all of the teams they have affiliated with and why they split
Atlanta...GM Don Waddell...with them for 10 yrs until the owners decided they didn't want to own a hockey and basketball team...team sold and moved to WPG and revitalized the Jets..new owners want team closer to WPG
Vancouver...They basically reneged on the agreement as to which players were coming to Chicago and so the Wolves decided they didn't want a partner they couldn't trust...How've those canucks prospects been doing?
St. Louis...Once again players told they were coming to Chicago never arrive...
Las Vegas...Wanted own their own affiliate from day 1...pulled the trigger and bought San Antonio and dumped St. Louis right out to the curb(St Louis wants to be pissed at someone Vegas should be the one not Chicago...lol)
And now Carolina also Gm'd by Don Waddell...
2019...Charlotte wins Calder Cup...Tom Dunden trys to hold up the owner there for more money coming to Carolina in the way of the affiliation fee after contract expires that summer...Charlotte owners says No and they part ways.
2020...Covid hits and Carolina goes to Chicago with a 3 yr deal...Chicago talks to both Florida and Carolina and goes with Carolina due to Waddell connection...Fla then goes to Charlotte...no fans bubble season for Chicago
2021/2022...bubble season and beginning of the Calder Cup season...But Wait....Carolina gets rid of their long time play by play voice...25 yrs...over MONEY!!!
Chicago goes on a ridiculous run and wins a Calder Cup...but during the Cup finals Tom Dunden wants to fire Chicago's head coach for not playing the players HE wants him to play...
Wolves coach opts out and goes to the NHL...
Summer of 22 free agency comes and Carolina signs no one for Chicago for 5 days into it...then they make some really half heart bs attempts to sign players...Ryan Dzingel?!?!? Wow big deal there...they sign Brock Sheahan to coach Wolves...now comes the fun part...
The Wolves inform Carolina that when the season is over they arent renewing their contract with Carolina and are gong independent...
Brock Sheahan is told by Carolina that he must submit his line up before each game to Carolina for approval before he can post it. He is also told not to worry about winning any games that year just play the players we tell you to play.
During the season Wendell Young tries to improve the wolves via moves and is told no by carolina each time and the Wolves miss the playoffs by 1 point
During the 22-23 playoffs I spoke with a bunch of former Wolves players from the 21-22 Cup team and TO A MAN they told me the stories coming out about Tom Dunden telling Chicago they could have any player they wanted back...but Carolina wasn't paying for them and they were changing the agreement in its last year and wanted only development were 100% true
23-24 season...Don Waddell and Wendell Young talk about the Wolves still taking on some Carolina players this season...Tom Dunden shoots it down and tells everyone that the Wolves said no to taking any of them. Training camp happens and now carolina finds out they have no place to put players and Don Waddell calls Chicago and asks them would they take players and be willing to pay part of the players salary for the season...Wendell says no...you pulled the players and i was forced to go and fill out my roster to replace those players and now you want me to pay MY players and YOURS...No.
Also comes out that Don Waddell has an agreement with a few AHL teams to take his players and pay $25,000 per player towards their salary...Tom Dunden shoots this down and says No Way...they are worth at least $75,000 each. thus shooting his own GM in the foot.
Fast forward to this past week...V Ponamarev's agent tells Carolina he's not happy in Tucson and wants to go to Chicago where he was supposed to go anyway or he's leaving. Tucson...the Canes organization...both. who knows but he's Chicago now isn't he? Next day 3 more players who were originally ticketed for Chicago this summer are reassigned to them.
So please lose the whole Oh chicago found the error of their ways and is now begging Carolina for players...when the truth is carolina is now in the Finding out phase of the program and one last thing...
An AHL Gm this weekend told me straight out..."This whole mess is the fault of Tom Dunden and Don Waddel yes the Wolves have a part in it BUT it is Waddell and Dunden's fault that it got to where it is..."

so again please spare me the commentary about what you think you know...because in truth you know very little about what transpired to get to this point.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

so again please spare me the commentary about what you think you know...because in truth you know very little about what transpired to get to this point.

While you think i know less than I do, i don’t. Carolina is a tough negotiation organization and all.

But i like how you sway the message here like Carolina and Tom D are the bad guys and somehow Chicago is of no fault as everyone else has ditched them after 3-4 years. Good one

Lets all clutch our pearls because an owner wants to fire his AHL coach, because they value prospect growth, or that an NHL organization wants to have black aces during the playoffs. Those are the reasons the AHL is there.

The Pono and prospect story doesn’t support your previous claim inside the same post but you try to make tom d out to be bad still. Nice try though. Because in fact, Chicago sucks and they need actual players on the roster. in fact, waiting until day 5 of FA or not, fringe nhl players aren’t interested in the wolves without a chance at seeing nhl ice. Did i in fact enough? So, Chicago needs these nhl prospects to have a chance to complete each game. Chicago is the one who effed around and is finding out.

Lastly, I don’t find it the slightest bit surprising that a fellow ahl GM would paint the picture that their peer was victimized by the big bad nhl parent. If that is actual truth, which i doubt. Doesn’t make it right though

The fact of the matter, Chicago continues to believe that their championship pursuit is more important than it really is. And such they deserve their losing choices.

 

[Chrispy]

Copying this over as a reminder since axecrew likes to make up history after the fact:

The issue of the Wolves not being willing to develop players was cited as the reason the Canucks ended their relationship in 2013.

The same issues of Chicago not being willing to develop players was cited when they ended the affiliation with St. Louis in 2018. When Chicago is complaining that their AHL signees were outproducing St. Louis's prospects, they take no responsibility for failure to develop those prospects. Go over to the Blues board and you have plenty of complaints that the Wolves wouldn't play Blues prospects, including Jordan Kyrou when he was sent there after an OHL season.

Finally, Waddell noted when Carolina affiliated with the Wolves that one of the reasons they affiliated with the Wolves was because the Wolves were willing to pay for veterans. Now Chicago is apparently balking at paying for those veterans.

How does this make the Carolina Hurricanes better as an organization?

Waddell: The Wolves are willing to invest in players with us. From that standpoint, we'll be able to do more with our players for less cost. Some of the players we've brought in - what I would call our depth, veteran NHL players - we'll still need to sign those players, and we have a partner that realizes the importance of that and is willing to help financially support bringing in those quality veterans.

Chicago has repeatedly failed to show they are willing to play the primary role of an AHL franchise: developing prospects for the NHL. It's why Vancouver left, it's why St. Louis left, and now Chicago left Carolina because Carolina balked when Chicago wanted Carolina to pay for more AHL veterans to block their prospects.

Chicago also insisted upon playing a goalie who had been with them most of the season in Alex Lyon even though Kochetkov, who came over to the Wolves mid-season, matched Lyon's regular season results and far outplayed Lyon in the Calder Cup run. When Chicago is insisting upon playing the inferior player over the superior prospect, you better believe the NHL organization is going to be upset. That's not playing to win; that's playing to market "your guy."

Carolina's affiliates won 2 straight Calder Cups, so it's hard to argue the Canes aren't interested in winning or able to balance developing talent and winning cups. They won in Charlotte; they won in Chicago. But when they see superior prospects being benched for inferior veteran AAAA players, they can be and should be angry.

The only relationship of late that seemed to go well was the Vegas one when Vegas had few prospects as an expansion franchise and needed a large number of veterans to fill an AHL roster. But as soon as Vegas had larger numbers of prospects, they decided to buy an AHL affiliate and locate them closer to Las Vegas.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Sounds like Chicago has a bizarre mindset at odds at the reality of being an AHL franchise.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Sounds like Chicago has a bizarre mindset at odds at the reality of being an AHL franchise.

That's because they never wanted to be a farm team, lol. They formed in 1994, and won the Turner Cup (IHL Championship) twice and made the Finals another time, but the League folded after 2000-01, and they had no choice but to join the AHL. It's always been an uneasy marriage in that league. There just isn't a strong independent minor league in existence.

The independent no affiliate experiment is an interesting one. I actually think they signed good AHL veterans. The issue is very much the Player Developmental Rule, which makes it almost impossible because nobody wants to sign an AHL deal if they can get an NHL deal and a shot at a callup. Given that's about 2/3 of the roster, what can you do.

Situation is pretty bad for Carolina though as well. No AHL team that they have any sort of input on. Leaving your prospects in the ECHL (even though an underrated league, it's undoubtedly a lower quality) or loaning them out to other independent AHL teams that aren't particularly interested in developing them.

Part of the issue for both organizations is that they are both running out of independently owned AHL teams. So many more teams are just outright buying an AHL Affiliate, which is nice for them to completely control the operations and do whatever they want without an independent org with their own separate goals. So for the NHL franchises that don't own an AHL affiliate (costs typically) and the AHL teams that aren't owned by an NHL parent, there are limited options, so when there's a nasty divorce like Carolina and the Wolves, they don't have a ton of places to turn anymore.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Thanks for providing insight on that. Makes sense a little more where they are coming from. How about Bedard with the Hawks! I had to have one custom made.

 

[Svechhammer]

Copying this over as a reminder since axecrew likes to make up history after the fact:

I'm honestly impressed that someone was able to write that much and have the vast majority of it just complete fabrication. I mean it's straight up fanfic territory there.

 

[axecrew]

I'm honestly impressed that someone was able to write that much and have the vast majority of it just complete fabrication. I mean it's straight up fanfic territory there.

If you only knew how true it really is...

 

[Svechhammer]

If you only knew how true it really is...

I believe that you think its true. Unfortunately, I do know enough about the situation and have spoken directly to enough people involved to know what you're saying is complete bollocks.

 

[axecrew]

I believe that you think its true. Unfortunately, I do know enough about the situation and have spoken directly to enough people involved to know what you're saying is complete bollocks.

Then by all means please disclose who you've talked to...I'd love to know if it's anyone I know personally...could make for a great discussion

 

[Svechhammer]

Then by all means please disclose who you've talked to...I'd love to know if it's anyone I know personally...could make for a great discussion

Sorry, I'm not here to get into a pissing match with someone who is talking out of their ass. If you want to know my source by all means hit me up directly, I'm not going to share that publicly. I'm just here to call out the obvious fabrication on your part for what it really was.

 

[UncMike]

Any updates as far as what these teams are planning for 2024-25 season?