Post-Game Talk: No Longer Under Siege but still On Deadly Ground (Devils win 4-3 in OT over the Habs)

[Blackjack]

I already know the reactions that will come from saying this, but I still want to see more games from Cory before thinking about buying him out.

None of the goals he gave up in Edmonton were egregious or anything. I just rewatched them before posting this.

Breakaway, a deflection, a very fortunate bounce for Neal coupled with poor defense, and another deflection by a guy who a defenseman should have been blocking out anyway.

Yes, blah blah blah, past three years, I know I know, but at this point his problem's look mental. He was perfectly fine in the 1st game before he got hurt. He needs to see a sports psychologist.

I'm actually fine with not giving up on Cory, but he needs to go to the AHL and play a bunch of games until he finds consistency and is ready to come back. You can't let him try to find his game here.

 

[Triumph]

And he's going to get more games, the next bunch of games may be AHL games, but he's going to get a chance to resurrect himself somewhere.

And maybe he never finds it, but let's just say from here on out he plays 20 NHL games and posts a .911 save %, and wins at a decent clip. We're going to buy him out and go pay some other guy who is maybe playing to a .911 save % himself? I doubt that.

This would make the 3rd straight season that Cory Schneider has had an extended run of being unplayable. At some point, you have to conclude that this is inevitable and cut your losses. A goalie who puts up either .950 or .850 is much less valuable than a goalie who puts up a .900 SV every game. Obviously a goalie who puts up .900 SV% every game is absurd, but they cannot keep going like this.

Maybe if Schneider is .930 the rest of the way it can be a consideration. Maybe.

 

[devilsblood]

I'm actually fine with not giving up on Cory, but he needs to go to the AHL and play a bunch of games until he finds consistency and is ready to come back. You can't let him try to find his game here.

I think it is important that Domingue is setting a bar so as to evaluate Cory's play if and when he goes down to the AHL.

Senn was at a .891 save %
Cormier was at .901
Domingue is at .918

Small samples for sure, but if Schneider goes down and posts a .901 I won't be as willing to write it off as a Bing issue given Domingue has played pretty well down there.

 

[devilsblood]

This would make the 3rd straight season that Cory Schneider has had an extended run of being unplayable. At some point, you have to conclude that this is inevitable and cut your losses. A goalie who puts up either .950 or .850 is much less valuable than a goalie who puts up a .900 SV every game. Obviously a goalie who puts up .900 SV% every game is absurd, but they cannot keep going like this.

Maybe if Schneider is .930 the rest of the way it can be a consideration. Maybe.

I know when we watch a bad stretch we feel something like "no way this guy comes back" but then that guy gets on a hot streak, and our opinions change.

If he were to play .930 the rest of the way he is absolutely coming back next year. I doubt he plays at that level, but if he did, no way you buy him out at the end of the year.

 

[Triumph]

I know when we watch a bad stretch we feel something like "no way this guy comes back" but then that guy gets on a hot streak, and our opinions change.

If he were to play .930 the rest of the way he is absolutely coming back next year. I doubt he plays at that level, but if he did, no way you buy him out at the end of the year.

I don't care about his hot streaks anymore. His cold streaks are just too cold. It's over for him here.

 

[guitarguyvic]

In one thread we have people insisting this team is capable of playing the elite hockey required for the rest of the season to make the playoffs, and here we have those same people insisting Cory might not be done despite three years of some of the worst goaltending in franchise history.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt, eh?

 

[Call Me Al]

there’s a big difference between insisting and suggesting it *might* be possible. i don’t think anyone is in denial about the state of the team right now

 

[Devils090]

In one thread we have people insisting this team is capable of playing the elite hockey required for the rest of the season to make the playoffs, and here we have those same people insisting Cory might not be done despite three years of some of the worst goaltending in franchise history.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt, eh?

well there’s been quite a few cases of teams being awful early on and then getting hot out of nowhere and making it in. While I don’t think we have the DNA given our roster/coaching it’s certainly not impossible.

Schneider however is a total lost cause who needs to be jettisoned ASAP.

 

[Emperoreddy]

They are going to have to play Cory at some point. You can’t run Blackwood into the ground, and there is enough of a case that our AHL options are no better then Cory.

I don’t see how we can keep him past this year though. He has not shown he can consistently be relied upon, and even if Blackwood is the starter of the future, he is only going to be 23. We need someone we can rely on to help shoulder the load.

 

[NjDevsRR]

In one thread we have people insisting this team is capable of playing the elite hockey required for the rest of the season to make the playoffs, and here we have those same people insisting Cory might not be done despite three years of some of the worst goaltending in franchise history.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt, eh?

Stop with your false narratives. This team is only 6 pts out of the playoffs with a game in hand with 62 games to go, elite hockey isn’t required for that gap to be closed. Your logic is saying Toronto Vegas Sam Jose and Tampa have no chance to rebound this season as well. So who is the crazy one?

 

[glenwo2]

I already know the reactions that will come from saying this, but I still want to see more games from Cory before thinking about buying him out.

None of the goals he gave up in Edmonton were egregious or anything. I just rewatched them before posting this.

Breakaway, a deflection, a very fortunate bounce for Neal coupled with poor defense, and another deflection by a guy who a defenseman should have been blocking out anyway.

Yes, blah blah blah, past three years, I know I know, but at this point his problem's look mental. He was perfectly fine in the 1st game before he got hurt. He needs to see a sports psychologist.

And yet you still say it.

But I think we've seen more than enough from Cory this year to determine that what we saw the last half of the season last year was either a fluke or a last-gasp for his career.

What we've seen from him this season is more of what we saw the entire 1st half and early 2nd half of last season.

Put a fork in Cory....HE'S DONE.

 

[Blackjack]

Stop with your false narratives. This team is only 6 pts out of the playoffs with a game in hand with 62 games to go, elite hockey isn’t required for that gap to be closed. Your logic is saying Toronto Vegas Sam Jose and Tampa have no chance to rebound this season as well. So who is the crazy one?

Yeah, I don't know if the team will turn the corner or not, but there's no way you can argue that "elite" hockey would be required to make the playoffs. To hit 95 points we need to play at a 100 point pace the rest of the season, which is decent but hardly elite.

 

[JimEIV]

In one thread we have people insisting this team is capable of playing the elite hockey required for the rest of the season to make the playoffs, and here we have those same people insisting Cory might not be done despite three years of some of the worst goaltending in franchise history.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt, eh?

I was reading through this thread thinking the same thing. The worst part is even when Cory was putting up the .925 he couldn't win 50% of his games...he plays 20 more games for this team this season you might as well pack it in.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Stop with your false narratives. This team is only 6 pts out of the playoffs with a game in hand with 62 games to go, elite hockey isn’t required for that gap to be closed. Your logic is saying Toronto Vegas Sam Jose and Tampa have no chance to rebound this season as well. So who is the crazy one?

Yes teams like Toronto, Vegas, San Jose, or Tampa Bay have realistic chances of pulling it off because they have rosters that have proven they can win at that kind of pace for an extended period and they also competent coaching, for the most part (at minimum certainly better than ours).

You don’t want to call it elite, fine, it requires consistent winning hockey. This team and this coaching staff has been an abject failure in that regard for a long time, what on earth makes you folks feel like it’s a realistic possibility that their play will turn on a dime like that?

 

[NjDevsRR]

Yes teams like Toronto, Vegas, San Jose, or Tampa Bay have realistic chances of pulling it off because they have rosters that have proven they can win at that kind of pace for an extended period and they also competent coaching, for the most part (at minimum certainly better than ours).

You don’t want to call it elite, fine, it requires consistent winning hockey. This team and this coaching staff has been an abject failure in that regard for a long time, what on earth makes you folks feel like it’s a realistic possibility that their play will turn on a dime like that?

I am just sick and tired of all of these posts acting like a 6 pt gap with games in hand takes extraordinary hockey to overcome. Absolutely ridiculous narrative.

 

[My3Sons]

I am just sick and tired of all of these posts acting like a 6 pt gap with games in hand takes extraordinary hockey to overcome. Absolutely ridiculous narrative.

Right now I think one of the concerns is that MBW can’t play all the remaining games. Unless Cory can rediscover his game at this point it’s hard to see them being able to go on a consistent long run if they have to play Cory in even 25% of the games.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Yes teams like Toronto, Vegas, San Jose, or Tampa Bay have realistic chances of pulling it off because they have rosters that have proven they can win at that kind of pace for an extended period and they also competent coaching, for the most part (at minimum certainly better than ours).

You don’t want to call it elite, fine, it requires consistent winning hockey. This team and this coaching staff has been an abject failure in that regard for a long time, what on earth makes you folks feel like it’s a realistic possibility that their play will turn on a dime like that?

Also, this team has been getting 70% of the points the last few weeks so what if that continues?...

 

[BenedictGomez]

Yeah, I don't know if the team will turn the corner or not, but there's no way you can argue that "elite" hockey would be required to make the playoffs. To hit 95 points we need to play at a 100 point pace the rest of the season, which is decent but hardly elite.

This logic of yours (and a few others to be fair) is going to quickly cave in on you mathematically after just a few (literally) more losses.

For instance, the next game is against the Boston Bruins. If the Devils lose that game, the "100 point pace" moves to a 102 point pace.

Alternatively, let's say the Devils win 3 of their next 6 games, collecting six points. Could very well happen, as they have NYR, Wild, Detroit in that span against Boston, Habs, Penguins. That solid .500 hockey would actually move our predicted ppg needed to make the playoffs higher, not lower, to 1.25 from our current theoretical 1.22. It's just unfortunately an extremely difficult task, which is why you can never bury yourself at any point in the season like the Devils have.

 

[None Shall Pass]

The worst part is even when Cory was putting up the .925 he couldn't win 50% of his games

I hate to be the one who informs you, but if a goalie is putting up a .925 and isn't winning, the problem is not the goalie.

 

[NjDevsRR]

This is so stupid. Islanders are playing at a 158pt pace over their last 14 games. Guess they will hit that number....

Three weeks ago Dallas was at a 65 pt pace, guess they will hit that number too...oh wait, they are in a wild card spot.


IT IS EARLY. A 6pt gap with games in hand is nothing. Teams go hot and cold, even bad teams go on long hot streaks.

 

[super6646]

I saw the Seagal reference and had to post about it. What a waste of a career.

 

[Emperoreddy]

This logic of yours (and a few others to be fair) is going to quickly cave in on you mathematically after just a few (literally) more losses.

For instance, the next game is against the Boston Bruins. If the Devils lose that game, the "100 point pace" moves to a 102 point pace.

Alternatively, let's say the Devils win 3 of their next 6 games, collecting six points. Could very well happen, as they have NYR, Wild, Detroit in that span against Boston, Habs, Penguins. That solid .500 hockey would actually move our predicted ppg needed to make the playoffs higher, not lower, to 1.25 from our current theoretical 1.22. It's just unfortunately an extremely difficult task, which is why you can never bury yourself at any point in the season like the Devils have.

You are sticking to this way to hard. Come from behind seasons happen in sports plenty of times just as collapses do

Just because it statistically is unlikely doesn’t make it a cold fact. If it was they would stop playing games in November and let a computer sim the results.

 

[BenedictGomez]

This is so stupid. Islanders are playing at a 158pt pace over their last 14 games. Guess they will hit that number....

No, they most certainly wont. But I bet they WILL make the playoffs given they just have to play about .500 hockey to hit the bogey we're discussing!

 

[Oneiro]

Yeah, I'm with those who think this team just doesn't have it in them to play consistent hockey for a month straight. And that's even if you think the probabilities aren't so damning.

Too much inexperience at pretty much every single position, including behind the bench.

 

[BenedictGomez]

You are sticking to this way to hard. Come from behind seasons happen in sports plenty of times just as collapses do

Prove us wrong with an NHL example or two then, I would genuinely like to know what they are & which team(s) pulled this off.

I think @Triumph gave the best possible suggestion with FL. Close, but no cigar, as they failed.

I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if it HAS happened. But as @Aethon alluded to, if you can find that one instance out of 138 or something, you're actually hurting, not helping, your point.

EDIT: I think STL last year is a good example too, although it's muddled because they had several games in hand, so they came back from 4 to 6 points (depending upon how you view that), but they actually made it.