No 91 retirement

[SCD]

I am not so sure Yzerman and Federov were ever "close."

 

[Hammettf2b]

I am not so sure Yzerman and Federov were ever "close."

Close enough to allegedly offer him a job.

 

[The Zermanator]

Because Marcel Dionne played 4 seasons for Detroit. Yzerman played 21. Because Marcel Dionne played for the Wings when they weren't just bad, but bottom of the league bad... and Yzerman played long enough to build the team to where it was the preeminent franchise in hockey. Because Marcel Dionne's career ended before the Berlin Wall came down and a good chunk of professional hockey was on pay-to-play channels like PASS sports and was WAY more niche than it is now and Steve Yzerman's career coincided with far more national TV coverage, the advent of the internet and highlights of Yzerman's greatest plays and moments are on constant replay around the league.

Gee, I wonder why one guy in 2019 would have a higher profile than the other.

You might want to read an entire conversation if you're going to reply to a post. I compared their profiles in NHL history, the amount of games Dionne played for Detroit specifically is irrelevant. And also are we going to sit here and pretend like some very important figures in the Wings organization weren't seriously considering moving on from Yzerman before they started winning Cups? The guy was basically already a HOFer at that point, yet despite that the lack of Cups had them considering other options.

As far as being remembered, we're not talking about your run of the mill casual sports fan who maybe catches a game here and there. Even amongst experts, Yzerman's profile carries a lot more weight than Dionne's. Gordie Howe and Bobby Orr's careers also ended before the Berlin Wall came down, but they don't seem to lose points because of it... He's not some forgotten player from a bygone era, Dionne is #6 all time in points (1 spot ahead of Yzerman).

And by referencing the success Yzerman enjoyed with the 'preeminent franchise in hockey', you're actually helping prove my point in a roundabout way. Yzerman won Cups, Dionne did not. Why? Well one of them played on terrible teams, and the other played on great teams. Yzerman didn't win single-handedly, his team won. He was one of the most important contributors no doubt, but so was Fedorov. Just as important, really. They both played elite two-way games and were captains on the team.

Dionne's legacy has taken a hit by the fact he never won a Cup. Yzerman's legacy has gotten a great boost from winning 3 Cups. They both achieved a similar level of individual success in their careers, what sets them apart are the Cups. Sergei Fedorov was an essential component of winning those Cups, therefore he played an incredibly important role in building Yzerman's legacy, just like Yzerman helped build Fedorov's. Without him, Yzerman's legacy would likely be a bit closer to Dionne than where he is now. Just like people were using lack of a championship as a mark against Ovechkin. It may not be fair, but it is what it is.

Cups raise profiles, that shouldn't be a controversial thing to say. Yzerman's profile was raised by the Cups he won. He probably doesn't win those Cups without Fedorov in the mix. Therefore, having Yzerman in charge makes it more likely that Fedorov will get his due recognition, he deserves it.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think this one will happen eventually and yes I do think Yzerman really helps that as does Devellano finally seeming to come around in terms of this issue. Holland was kind of isolated in terms of championing it for the last little while, Yzerman should be able to help Marian and Chris see the light on this one.

 

[guinness]

I think this one will happen eventually and yes I do think Yzerman really helps that as does Devellano finally seeming to come around in terms of this issue. Holland was kind of isolated in terms of championing it for the last little while, Yzerman should be able to help Marian and Chris see the light on this one.

Agreed. I've moved past 2003, and Fedorov was one the best players, not just best Red Wings...he's got a couple SC, some other HW, and is in the HOF. I can see a bit with the Ilitches, and the money they paid after his holdout and offer sheet with Carolina, but it's not like Olympia entertainment doesn't make money hand over fist too. And part of that holdout was probably a pissing match between Mike Ilitch and Karmanos.

It's not like the Wings are doing an Avs level re: Bourque, Feds could do it all, and without him, I don't see the Wings winning those SC in 1997 and 98.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Agreed. I've moved past 2003, and Fedorov was one the best players, not just best Red Wings...he's got a couple SC, some other HW, and is in the HOF. I can see a bit with the Ilitches, and the money they paid after his holdout and offer sheet with Carolina, but it's not like Olympia entertainment doesn't make money hand over fist too. And part of that holdout was probably a pissing match between Mike Ilitch and Karmanos.

It's not like the Wings are doing an Avs level re: Bourque, Feds could do it all, and without him, I don't see the Wings winning those SC in 1997 and 98.

The offer sheet backstory has always loomed larger for me in terms of this and signing with Ilitch's mortal enemy in Detroit in Karmanos. That was truly bad form on his part. But the Wings then messed with him in the following negotiations as his life was falling apart. I think they both don't have a whole lot to be proud about in 2003. Amazing player, I think he will be the first non-captain to go up (well I don't count Sawchuk here) which really says something about the other guys up there too. All at least three time cup winners that captained the Wings at some point. Obviously nobody was going to do that with Stevie here his whole stay, but I think Feds will be the first to buck that trend.

Ultimately I would like to see Marian give this her blessing, I think that would be important to fully mend the fence. I hope it can happen with her there.

 

[FireBird71]

Because Fedorov is nowhere near as deserving as any of the names that are currently in the rafters. Zetterberg would get his # number retired before Fedorov, and honestly I am not sure even he would qualify.

Multiple contract disputes and walking out on the team will tarnish his legacy for many more years. Fedorov will probably get his number retired eventually, but it will likely be a couple decades down the road when no one remembers or cares about his off-ice drama.

Bullshit

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Y'all can have your personal grievances with Fedorov and Datsyuk for whatever reason you choose, doesn't change the fact that both their numbers will find their way to the rafters eventually.

 

[Fynn]

I still can't believe we are beating this same dead horse or why anyone cares. Did you see how long it took Red Kelly to get his number retired? Fans are so jaded because we had such personal and professional legends with Lidstrom and Yzerman that fans somehow feel like anyone who was good gets their number retired immediately. Not only that, there is no litmus test. Doesn't matter who did what. It's what the owner thinks, period.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

Not so much p***yfoot around... How it happened was...

Fedorov comes in for contract negotiations when he was in a bad place personally. Holland and Ilitch offer 5/50 to him. Fedorov, because he's in a bad spot mentally, says he needs a few days to think. Ilitch responds after Sergei leaves that he figures Sergei is gone, because 5/50 for his services is a number that he should jump at. Fedorov takes some time and comes back, but the offer of 5/50 is off the table and replaced by 5/40 or 5/45 and that led to the deal from Anaheim.

Ilitch probably was petty and played dirty pool, but he had the memory of the prior negotiation where Fedorov held out for 2/3rds of a season and figured Sergei's "troubles" were a negotiation tactic more than an actual thing he was mentally grappling with.

Ahhhh, thats right. Ya I think the second offer was 4/40 iirc. He also donated a lot of money from the first contract to the city of Detroit.

That's mostly correct. Everything is in the context of his holdout in 1997 though. He screwed the team and Illitches in 1997 (for half a season and $12,000,000) and so when he didn't immediately take the 5/50 offer they rightfully assumed he was going to play games with them again. Also worth noting is that the cap was going to be coming into play and the Wings were going to have to move people to make room for his salary. When he came back they lowered the offer and then he walked and SIGNED FOR LESS with Anaheim. His name does not deserve to be in the rafters, period.

 

[obey86]

retire his number. he's a hall of famer who played 13 of his best seasons in detroit.

 

[Hammettf2b]

That's mostly correct. Everything is in the context of his holdout in 1997 though. He screwed the team and Illitches in 1997 (for half a season and $12,000,000) and so when he didn't immediately take the 5/50 offer they rightfully assumed he was going to play games with them again. Also worth noting is that the cap was going to be coming into play and the Wings were going to have to move people to make room for his salary. When he came back they lowered the offer and then he walked and SIGNED FOR LESS with Anaheim. His name does not deserve to be in the rafters, period.

Just how did he screw the team? They won the cup that year WITH him.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

That's mostly correct. Everything is in the context of his holdout in 1997 though. He screwed the team and Illitches in 1997 (for half a season and $12,000,000) and so when he didn't immediately take the 5/50 offer they rightfully assumed he was going to play games with them again. Also worth noting is that the cap was going to be coming into play and the Wings were going to have to move people to make room for his salary. When he came back they lowered the offer and then he walked and SIGNED FOR LESS with Anaheim. His name does not deserve to be in the rafters, period.

He didn't sign for less with Anaheim. Detroit offered the same amount with one year shorter term. So Anaheim's total contract was actually larger than Detroit's.

And I can't believe people are still arguing this. Fedorov's number absolutely deserves to be in the rafters.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

Because Fedorov is nowhere near as deserving as any of the names that are currently in the rafters. Zetterberg would get his # number retired before Fedorov, and honestly I am not sure even he would qualify.

Multiple contract disputes and walking out on the team will tarnish his legacy for many more years. Fedorov will probably get his number retired eventually, but it will likely be a couple decades down the road when no one remembers or cares about his off-ice drama.

This is just pure nonsense and. A perfect example of some wings fans being too offended and not over the fact he left the team, it shouldn’t be a prerequisite for a players number to be retired only if you stay your whole career with one team

If your honest with yourself we don’t win those 3 cups without fedorov , he had 59 playoff points on those 3 cup runs and was an nhl star when he was a redwing not just a good player

And oh he played 13 years with the wings that’s a long f’n time and it’s a travesty his number isn’t yet retired just because of personal grudges. Fedorov will always be one of the best redwings of all time

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

He didn't sign for less with Anaheim. Detroit offered the same amount with one year shorter term. So Anaheim's total contract was actually larger than Detroit's.

And I can't believe people are still arguing this. Fedorov's number absolutely deserves to be in the rafters.

People are petty as f*** man , maybe it’s cause he’s Russian. Without fedorov we don’t win those cups

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

Is it far-fetched to think Yzerman bringing in Fedorov for a job within the organization would help matters of the #91 going to the rafters?

I don’t know if it affect it but I do expect with Stevie running the show fedorovs jersey will be raised , he doesn’t seem like a petty guy and knows its the right thing . If mrs illitch has beef cause he left yzerman will make her see the light

 

[GBFP]

I hope not. He tried his damndest to get away from Detroit afterall - why honor him with his name/number forever in the rafters now? Not to mention he worked in cahoots with Mike Ilitch's business rival Pete Karmanos to leave or make it very painful on Ilitch personally and professionally to match the offersheet when the future of the Ilitch empire was far from secure.

 

[plymouthmi]

I might be in the minority in being fine if his jersey doesn't get retired just based on the merits. I'm in the camp of reserving jersey retirements for the true super legends of the team, with maybe some bonus points thrown in for longevity with the team.

But if the team doesn't share my attitude and are only not-retiring his jersey due to him leaving the team, I don't agree with that.