NJ's Road to the Playoffs

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

No one should expect top six performance from Zajac.

That doesn't mean he's worthless. He has some value. It's just not realistic to call him a top six forward.

 

[Edmonton East]

Zajac put up 0.6 points per game literally 2 seasons ago.

.46 over the last 3 seasons.

 

[billingtons ghost]

No one should expect top six performance from Zajac.

That doesn't mean he's worthless. He has some value. It's just not realistic to call him a top six forward.

^This.

I give Zajac a lot of crap, and rightfully so. His #s were inflated because of Parise, and he did suffer a tough injury -

But:
1. He isn't the great defensive center he is made out to be. I've brought up before that he is a pale shade of Madden, who was a good third line center in this league. Draws, skating, compete level... all of it.
2. He is on a fat cat contract. There is no desperation that Gomez showed in polishing his skating. His compete level has not been the same since the contract.
3. Offensively, even playing top minutes with the best this team has had to offer (which, regrettably, is relatively garbage) on the best lines, he has looked a whole heck of a lot worse than even Tootoo when playing next to good players.

All of that said: It is pointless to trade him with his value at a minimum. He is a 30-40 point 3rd line center and a very good one and he'll be valuable member of this team again.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

.46 over the last 3 seasons.

but that isn't what you said originally

of course I want more out of him but I am willing to give him this season before we make any definitive statements about him.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

^This.

I give Zajac a lot of crap, and rightfully so. His #s were inflated because of Parise, and he did suffer a tough injury -

But:
1. He isn't the great defensive center he is made out to be. I've brought up before that he is a pale shade of Madden, who was a good third line center in this league. Draws, skating, compete level... all of it.
2. He is on a fat cat contract. There is no desperation that Gomez showed in polishing his skating. His compete level has not been the same since the contract.
3. Even playing top minutes with the best this team has had to offer (which, regrettably, is relatively garbage) on the best lines, he has looked a whole heck of a lot worse than even Tootoo when playing next to good players.

All of that said: It is pointless to trade him with his value at a minimum. He is a 30-40 point 3rd line center and a very good one and he'll be valuable member of this team again.

that is just plain silly. he is elite defensively.

 

[billingtons ghost]

that is just plain silly. he is elite defensively.

You forgot to put your laughing emoticon.

It isn't silly. He doesn't have elite speed. He isn't an elite faceoff man. He is very good in puck possession.

Do I think he's very good, and the best we have? Yes.

Do I have anywhere near the same confidence that he can shut down opposing centers when put out in a clutch position as I did in Madden or as I would in a truly elite defensive center? No frigging way.

Please watch Bergeron for some time before you make silly claims.

Your elite center was a -3 last year. His days of Selke nominations are over.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You forgot to put your laughing emoticon.

It isn't silly. He doesn't have elite speed. He isn't an elite faceoff man. He is very good in puck possession.

Do I think he's very good, and the best we have? Yes.

Do I have anywhere near the same confidence that he can shut down opposing centers when put out in a clutch position as I did in Madden or as I would in a truly elite defensive center? No frigging way.

Please watch Bergeron for some time before you make silly claims.

Your elite center was a -3 last year. His days of Selke nominations are over.

Travis Zajac's career faceoff % is 53.9%

John Madden's career faceoff percentage was 52.3%

but hey, why use facts?!

also, >using +/- in a season where the team literally couldn't score. the team leader in +/- was +4.

for your reference:

I believe this was from 13-14, but you get the picture.

 

[Zippy316]

Now here's what these players actually are, though:

Camm* - 1C - 1RW
2LW - Henrique - Palmieri (this is far from a lock)

Maybe. But we're not going to need superstar forwards carrying this team the way it's built.

We're going to have a superb defense and a goalie who is tops in the league. We can probably make the playoffs with the top six I mentioned, but realistically, when those young guys play to their full potential is when we compete.




I forgot to quote this but I think EmperorEddy said something about tanking. I'm not advocating tanking at all, but looking at the long-term future of this team, acquiring a guy like Matthews who can step in and a difference maker is exactly what we need. In short, I just hope we don't fall out of the range of getting a guy who can be an impact player in a year or two. At a certain point, the NHL-readiness of prospects drops dramatically.

With Schneider's age, this team would really be best if it could be at a level to truly compete in three or four years. With the defense growing, our defense may get to that level in that time. Schneider should be able to sustain his current level for that long. If we fall to far in the draft, we're going to lose the ability to acquire a player that can make an impact around that time.

That is what I was trying to get at.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Travis Zajac's career faceoff % is 53.9%

John Madden's career faceoff percentage was 52.3%

but hey, why use facts?!

also, >using +/- in a season where the team literally couldn't score. the team leader in +/- was +4.

for your reference:

I believe this was from 13-14, but you get the picture.

Right - use 'career' numbers for Zajac to cushion the blow. Or better, cherry pick 2013.

Also, since they didn't record faceoff stats until 2007, please use Madden's stats just at the tail end of his career, but include Zajac's whole career.

So yeah, why not use facts when they are apples and oranges and geared to only suit your argument.

The first year of Madden's stats he was 53.7. At the age of 34.

When guys like Bergeron and Datsyuk regularly have 30+ +/-, which Zajac did exactly once... I think your 'ELITE' label is pretty easily whipped around.

And great! Zajac leads in 5v5 SA. Like THAT is any less of a team statistic than plus/minus on (what was) the stingiest team in the league to get shots against historically


Updating that for you, for your reference: That's a 47 corsi. Elite!
Zajac:
Season Age GP TOI CF CA CF% CF% rel FF FA FF% FF% rel oiSH% oiSV% PDO oZS% dZS%
2014-15 29 74 1093.1 829 930 47.1 1.0 635 701 47.5 2.3 7.5 92.4 99.9 45.9 54.1


At the age of 29, Madden was the Selke runner up. Zajac was 38th in Selke voting

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

why are we talking about freaking plus/minus?! not to mention those guys have always played on good teams, which GREATLY SKEWS that stat. do you not understand this? Boston wasn't very good last year and Bergeron was +2. you don't think that is a coincidence?

and SELKE VOTING? lol Ilya Kovalchuk got Selke votes that year he scored all those SHG. thats all you need to know about league voting.

you were acting as if John Madden was some faceoff God for his entire career and Zajac stinks at them when in reality, taht couldn't be any further from the truth. what numbers am I supposed to use on faceoffs? Zajac has finished at 54%+ 4 times in his career.

I love it. I provide you with actual numbers instead of gibberish and you have excuses to say how they aren't relevant. its OK to take an L sometimes, my man

 

[billingtons ghost]

why are we talking about freaking plus/minus?! not to mention those guys have always played on good teams, which GREATLY SKEWS that stat. do you not understand this? Boston wasn't very good last year and Bergeron was +2. you don't think that is a coincidence?

and SELKE VOTING? lol Ilya Kovalchuk got Selke votes that year he scored all those SHG. thats all you need to know about league voting.

you were acting as if John Madden was some faceoff God for his entire career and Zajac stinks at them when in reality, taht couldn't be any further from the truth. what numbers am I supposed to use on faceoffs? Zajac has finished at 54%+ 4 times in his career.

I love it. I provide you with actual numbers instead of gibberish and you have excuses to say how they aren't relevant. its OK to take an L sometimes, my man

I love the rage. Does anyone believe this guy? Holy wow.

Your statement: Zajac is still elite defensively today because his corsi was good back in 2013.

You provide the only Corsi #s that will back your argument, from 2013. I provide you with his Corsi last year, which is readily available... which is 47.
You provide numbers that compare a career of a 34-39 year old versus a 22-29 year old.

Unfortunately we don't know what Madden's faceoff % was during good years. However, he WAS a faceoff God that was sent out for every big faceoff the team had.

What I especially love is:
You have just had your arguments smashed, so you just resort to derision. Nice work.

 

[billingtons ghost]

why are we talking about freaking plus/minus?!

Yeah, and you are correct here.

It wouldn't be fair comparing a player who plays alongside Jagr and all of a team's best players every year of their career against someone who, say, plays strictly with 3rd liners against the other team's top line night in and night out.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

"back in 2013"

lol. it was 13-14, which was 1 season ago. was he good last year? no, and I never claimed that he was. but how many of our players not named Schneider were actually good last year?

I provided actual stats on faceoffs. you provided "WELL YOU KNOW I THINK HE WAS REALLY REALLY GOOD AT THEM"

but yes, my argument was "smashed".

Madden was a great defensive player. Zajac IS a great defensive player. the end.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Ok that is enough about Zajac. Above debate is over.

 

[DevRickus]

I don't what is better, this post or the DEVRICKUS is posting on hf.

LOL thanks. Haha

 

[Emperoreddy]

What part of enough about Zajac wasn't understood?

No more of the Zajac debate in this thread. Period.

 

[Captain Lou]

I agree that there are too many good teams ahead of us, but there's no way this is year one of a rebuild. This is about year 3 or 4. We had the fourth overall pick in 2011, we had a top 10 pick in 2013, we had a top 10 pick in 2015. We have like one guy on our defense over 24 and a ton of high end prospects there.

Based on your opinion, we should be trading Schneider, Greene, Cammalleri, and Zajac right now for prospects and picks.

Wow. That is what you took out of my post?

Let's work backwards.

First, I never mentioned one thing about a trade involving any of those listed players, so I have no idea why you even bothered to throw that crap into your response. I made no declarations of what needs to be done to get us to the playoffs, I only said we are further (farther?) away than most people think because of the glut of good teams in our division.

And as far as the rebuild, this is very clearly year 1. Our high picks were the result of hideously poor personnel decisions over the years that sunk our teams in 4 out of the last 5 years. None of those high draft picks were part of the master plan. Lou never went into a season with the mindset that we have right now. He was always trying to make the playoffs at all costs. It was only when last year's team so abominable that Lou had no choice but to start selling off vets for picks. There was even talk in late February when Cory was on his hot streak that Lou was going to add pieces to try to make a run.

 

[Camille the Eel]

As to the Devils playoff chances, I do think we will be competitive this year with the players assembled (it only takes about 10 points over an 82 game season to separate a whole bunch of teams). We will be in the hunt.

But as to building a club that can truly compete for the Cup, that's a different story and not a realistic possibility. Yet I'm excited about the season. This is an entertaining club with a future and good young talent both here and in Albany.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

I think the way the east is weak, the Devils should be in the mix for the last two spots for awhile. If Hynes is a salad out of gueno maker, then yes I think playoffs mix is a real possibiliy.

To quote the Analytics Guru Metha, one cannot dismiss the randomness of hockey.

 

[nugg]

This team will surprise people, and will sneak in as the 8th seed. Teams won't want to face them.

 

[Devilsfan992]

Tampa, NYR, NYI, Montreal, Washington and Pitt are all but guarantees to make the playoffs.

That means we're competing with Columbus, Florida, Boston, Ottawa and Detroit for 2 spots. It'll be super tough.

 

[Bleedred]

Tampa, NYR, NYI, Montreal, Washington and Pitt are all but guarantees to make the playoffs.

That means we're competing with Columbus, Florida, Boston, Ottawa and Detroit for 2 spots. It'll be super tough.

I don't think NYI is a lock. I think they'll finish either in 4th or 5th in the division. Either be in the playoffs as a wild card, or just miss the playoffs barely.

I would LOVE either Washington or NYR to not make it. Put us out of the misery of ever having to watch these two in a playoff series again, until Washington's core is blown the **** up.

 

[Flowmaster Flex]

I can't see the Devils being in the playoffs for at least 5 years

The Devils forward prospect cupboard is practically empty minus Zacha, the team is aging, we have many young defenseman but other than Larsson I don't think any others have top 4 potential they will reach, and by the time they are ready to contend for a playoff spot Schneider will be older and regressing.

Unless we trade guys like Greene, Zajac, Cammalleri and Schneider for a lot of young players/picks now, I can't see the playoffs for at least 5 years

 

[Devils Trap]

I can't see the Devils being in the playoffs for at least 5 years

The Devils forward prospect cupboard is practically empty minus Zacha, the team is aging, we have many young defenseman but other than Larsson I don't think any others have top 4 potential they will reach, and by the time they are ready to contend for a playoff spot Schneider will be older and regressing.

Unless we trade guys like Greene, Zajac, Cammalleri and Schneider for a lot of young players/picks now, I can't see the playoffs for at least 5 years

We have 5 Dmen who have top 4 potential, hell 3 of them are already top 4.

Larsson/Severson/Merrill/Gelinas/Santini. Larsson/Merrill/Severson all top 4 already.

Also, trading all your older players isnt required in a rebuild. Greene/Schneider will not be traded

 

[Emperoreddy]

We aren't ageing like we were. In fact the team got a hell of a lot younger this year.

We definitely don't have any top 3 talent in the system barring someone coming out of no where and not counting Zacha, but we do have some potentially good middle 6 talent, which you definitely need no matter what.

We also have some stud blue-chippers on defense that are only starting to hit their potential.

It won't take us 5 years.