Proposal: NJ-MTL

[Mrb1p]

Guhles worth more than that by himself lol.

Garbage.

 

[bud12]

I am not commenting either way on the trade proposal, but the Holtz hate is wild.

Dude scored 16 goals playing 10 minutes a night (with basically no PP time) on a bad team in his first full season. I'm not saying he is ever going to be some All-star player, but I could absolutely see him having a Tyler Toffoli-esque career

Unlike some of my habs friend, I would definitely be interested in Holtz as a reclamation project. Jets pick would probably be in play. I can understand why some habs fan wouln't but it's a risk a would take imo

 

[Forge]

There is an available slot as a top 6 LW. If your expectation is a star winger sure, but a quality sniper making 900k, and then cheap deal for 4 RFA years is something you need to build a healthy cap structure. Give him next year in that role, let him cook. If things don't go well, then you move on and look to replace with Clarke or Gritysuk in that offensive role. We don't have the cap to bring in a high priced UFA winger.

Zucker, Toffoli, Hoffman, Tarasenko types. Teams do need them.

And he has shown he can snipe. He already does his strength EXCELLENTLY at the NHL level. And that does provide value.

If his price rn is a 2nd, who cares if it drops to a 3rd. The risk/reward strongly suggests keeping him. a 900k rental winger for the difference between a 2nd and 3rd is still a steal.

If it's a late 1st, again imo the value of a rental and upside is worth more than whatever his value will diminish by when he's an RFA.

We start getting into the teens, or a piece that helps us now and into the future, and that looks different in my eyes.

Who would you replace holtz with to fill that top 6 role? And if it's a higher priced player, what sacrifices are you making to other parts of the roster?

The problem is that the team has basically told us they don't really value his being a quality sniper all that much. I think the idea that he's going to step into a top 6 role is a little optimistic even still. If they kept the roster exactly the same (which obviously they won't), I wouldn't be surprised at all if that other top 6 wing spot went to Haula or palat over Holtz regardless.

If you want to keep him because he's warm body that can score a little bit and will lock up a roster spot at 900K, I totally get that. Cheap labor is cheap labor. An early second doesn't really help the team now either, so I get not taking the deal. A change of scenery trade probably makes more sense in that regard.

I don't think highly enough about Holtz's overall game, or believe the team thinks highly enough about Holtz's overall game, to think that getting an early second + a minor add is a bad trade or that the team would "regret" moving him. If he's a negative at pretty much everything else he does on the ice, it really limits the value of what he does shooting the puck. The team has told us that he needs to get better at other aspects of the game.

Will that change for a new head coach? I have no idea.

 

[dgibb10]

The problem is that the team has basically told us they don't really value his being a quality sniper all that much. I think the idea that he's going to step into a top 6 role is a little optimistic even still. If they kept the roster exactly the same (which obviously they won't), I wouldn't be surprised at all if that other top 6 wing spot went to Haula or palat over Holtz regardless.

If you want to keep him because he's warm body that can score a little bit and will lock up a roster spot at 900K, I totally get that. Cheap labor is cheap labor. An early second doesn't really help the team now either, so I get not taking the deal. A change of scenery trade probably makes more sense in that regard.

I don't think highly enough about Holtz's overall game, or believe the team thinks highly enough about Holtz's overall game, to think that getting an early second + a minor add is a bad trade or that the team would "regret" moving him. If he's a negative at pretty much everything else he does on the ice, it really limits the value of what he does shooting the puck. The team has told us that he needs to get better at other aspects of the game.

Will that change for a new head coach? I have no idea.

I'd be fine even seeing Holtz in a consistent 3rd line role, as long as it's a role where it can play to his strengths. Early in the year that's what he got to an extent with some time with guys like Mercer, Haula, McLeod, etc, and he was produced excellently, one of the most efficient /60 point producers in hockey. Guys who could get him opportunities and not useless plugs like Nosek and Tierney

Get a guy like Foegele who's speed will pair well with Hughes and run
Meier-Hischier-Bratt
Foegele-Hughes-Mercer
Palat-Haula-Holtz

2 quality veterans to learn from an insulate him. Neither are real snipers but can drive play relatively well and get him the opportunities he needs to provide value and help the team win games.

My thought process is, does an early second move the needle that much when even if he doesn't break out next year we at minimum could still get a late 2nd.

I'd be fine with a change of scenery trade. Brunette loved Holtz, maybe some kind of swap involving a guy like Tomasino or Evangelista would make sense

 

[My3Sons]

Then why do NJD fans agree with Habs fans that the OPs post does not favor the Habs? Bunch of NJ homers too?


He's a terrible backchecker because of his lack of speed. Skating hard and actually skating fast are too different things. David Savard skates hard too!

Good gravy. You didn’t even bother to look at the edge stats? He’s above average in speed and bursts. There is no universe you watched Holtz this season in comparison to the NJ fans. Holtz’s problems are largely due to his slow decision making. If you think that slows him down then sure but the raw skating isn’t the fatal flaw you want it to be.

 

[TBF1972]

Like the 10th but Habs can't move Guhle. We move Guhle draft similar player who's not ready for 3 years. No sense doing it.

Holtz we don't want, too soft. Doesn't fit our culture.

Montreal really high on Sennecke. He should be there at 10. Habs counter offer with Jets pick and Struble or Harris. Devils choice?

struble and harris have zero appeal. i wouldn't move down from the 20th for one of them.

Guhle is a top 2 defenseman and only available for a young top 3 center.

Certainly not for a 10th rounder. Nor for some other "fill the gap" nonsense.

Don't like it, move along.

what?

top 2??? you mean first pairing?
young top 3c??? you mean first line?

10th rounder??? drunk?

 

[Aoko]

Fair value but I expect MTL says no.

10th for Guhle is likely fair value (again, I would not do it as MTL but likely fair value if they tried to sell him)
Holtz for 1st+2nd works

In no world is Holtz worth a first AND a second. He isn't even worth a first anymore.

That said, I think the Devils should do this trade...

 

[dgibb10]

In no world is Holtz worth a first AND a second. He isn't even worth a first anymore.

That said, I think the Devils should do this trade...

In a world where MTL traded a 1st+2nd for Alex Newhook and 13th overall for Kirby Dach

 

[Aoko]

In a world where MTL traded a 1st+2nd for Alex Newhook and 13th overall for Kirby Dach

That isn't going to happen for Holtz. He's going to be fodder in a trade package for a goaltender. And it probably won't even be Saros.

 

[SamHabsFan]

no need to bash others team players here, but Guhle is already a top pairing Dman @ 22yo he produced more than Matheson at 5vs5, and carried him defensively on his off side while facing the toughest opposition in the league.

You may find his number underwhelming, but the task he was asked to do this past year was crazy.

So yeah..pretty much untradeable, id rather building our offense slowly through the draft, and we already have 4-5 sure fire top 6 guys so, be patient!

 

[Junohockeyfan]

In a world where MTL traded a 1st+2nd for Alex Newhook and 13th overall for Kirby Dach

No one is trading a 1st + 2nd for Holst. lol

Not even close. He's very close to a bust due to massive deficiencies in his game and the one dimensional nature of it.

NJ should try to dump him for as much as they can get this offseason. Otherwise, his value will continue to plummet with more 3rd/4th line play.

 

[Aoko]

No one is trading a 1st + 2nd for Holst. lol

Not even close. He's very close to a bust due to massive deficiencies in his game and the one dimensional nature of it.

NJ should try to dump him for as much as they can get this offseason. Otherwise, his value will continue to plummet with more 3rd/4th line play.

Devils fans like to cope and think that his diminishing value was solely due to Lindy not utilizing him correctly. And who knows? Maybe they're right.

There is a universe where they keep him and try him out for one more year under whatever new coach they hire. But it's risky since his value really will plummet worse than Zacha when he was still a Devil, if the new coach can't tap into his potential.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Just stop making Guhle to NJ posts, it brings out a certain Devils “expert” that spews hatred from every pore

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

No one is trading a 1st + 2nd for Holst. lol

Not even close. He's very close to a bust due to massive deficiencies in his game and the one dimensional nature of it.

NJ should try to dump him for as much as they can get this offseason. Otherwise, his value will continue to plummet with more 3rd/4th line play.

the dude scored 16 goals in his first full NHL season.

this "close to a bust" stuff has to stop. He may be a disappointment so far, but he is not a bust.

 

[HabsAddict]

No one is trading a 1st + 2nd for Holst. lol

Not even close. He's very close to a bust due to massive deficiencies in his game and the one dimensional nature of it.

NJ should try to dump him for as much as they can get this offseason. Otherwise, his value will continue to plummet with more 3rd/4th line play.

He and Kaliyev are not highly thought of by many of their own fans but amazingly, they think some other team GM will give a top draft choice for them.

Yes, i read their home sites.

We got a boatload of middle 6 forwards of our own so unless the trade is for one of spare defenseman, not interested for either one.

 

[TBF1972]

He and Kaliyev are not highly thought of by many of their own fans but amazingly, they think some other team GM will give a top draft choice for them.

Yes, i read their home sites.

We got a boatload of middle 6 forwards of our own so unless the trade is for one of spare defenseman, not interested for either one.

i think today or yesterday a montreal fan proposed xhekaj for the 4th oa.

just in case you needed a mirror.

 

[bud12]

i think today or yesterday a montreal fan proposed xhekaj for the 4th oa.

just in case you needed a mirror.

Where???

 

[Smitty426]

Good gravy. You didn’t even bother to look at the edge stats? He’s above average in speed and bursts. There is no universe you watched Holtz this season in comparison to the NJ fans. Holtz’s problems are largely due to his slow decision making. If you think that slows him down then sure but the raw skating isn’t the fatal flaw you want it to be.

Sons thanks for that I have never used the Edge stats-

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics - Skaters

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics for skaters including skating speed, skating distance, shot speed, shot location, and zone time.

edge.nhl.com

 

[Tanknation]

The fact remains Ghule is a big piece of our rebuild and is a top pairing D on the Habs at 22 years old. Why the hell would Montreal ever entertain trading him for a 10th you hope will be half as good + giving a 1st round pick as well. This thread by OP is a joke.

 

[TBF1972]

Where???

i don't remember. maybe the trade down thread

 

[TBF1972]

i don't remember. maybe the trade down thread

yep

no way habs move down, they need offense , But what about this? Mtl is being flooded with calls for Xhekaj it seems everyone wants him. MTL has said no to everyone. Players like him dont grow on trees. Would Hughes finally give in IF Columbus offers the 4th overall pick for a Xhekaj. They might have picked a dman at 4 anyway. and lets no forget Xhekaj plays right now in the nhl, no need to wait 2-3 years for your 4th to develop and then join Columbus.

 

[viceroy]

i think today or yesterday a montreal fan proposed xhekaj for the 4th oa.

Dunno amigo, the get would have to be huge for me to give up on Xhekaj.

And just to court more controversy... dunno if I'd trade him for Nemec.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Dunno amigo, the get would have to be huge for me to give up on Xhekaj.

And just to court more controversy... dunno if I'd trade him for Nemec.

Crazy talk.

 

[Smitty426]

Dunno amigo, the get would have to be huge for me to give up on Xhekaj.

And just to court more controversy... dunno if I'd trade him for Nemec.

That's a wild idea. Don't have to worry about considering that though.

 

[TBF1972]

That's a wild idea. Don't have to worry about considering that though.

the usual homer takes of devils fans