Post-Game Talk: Nice of You To Show Up For 20 Minutes Leafs Win 6-3

[MessierII]

I almost always acknowledge when Skinner is playing well, it's just there is no fanfare and it's quickly ignored. It also doesn't happen very frequently.

Do you require me to go through my post history and link them to you? Or will you simply shift the goalposts again?

Since the coaching change skinner has been one of the best goalies in the nhl by every metric

 

[guymez]

Since the coaching change skinner has been one of the best goalies in the nhl by every metric

Top 10 for sure....at least for most of Knoblauchs time behind the bench so far.

The old entrenched habits are hard to break though and they seem to keep creeping back into their game.
Thats bound to happen now and again but the slow starts and sloppy play is becoming habitual again.
Hopefully that will get worked out before the playoffs start.

 

[rboomercat90]

Bouchard was hot garbage tonight defensively. He loses awareness and danger too often still.

It’s worse than that. It’s not an awareness problem. He knows where his man is. He actually moves out of the opponents way giving them time and space to make a play when he’s in position to hit them and take them out of the play. He plays like he’s afraid of contact.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

The wild are soft now because the Kings drub them? Every other team including us has been having trouble with this soft club. In anycase all teams get relatively same balance of opponents through schedule. It’s not like some teams just play easy clubs for 82 games, lol. Unlike the Oilers the Kings have had substantial injury problems. The Oilers have had no appreciable man games lost. Very little anyway. Not one of our core players or key players has been out long.

Wild are cooked
They’ll have nothing to play for by then

 

[MessierII]

Top 10 for sure....at least for most of Knoblauchs time behind the bench so far.

The old entrenched habits are hard to break though and they seem to keep creeping back into their game.
Thats bound to happen now and again but the slow starts and sloppy play is becoming habitual again.
Hopefully that will get worked out before the playoffs start.

Since knobloch took over skinner is 29-9-4 with a .914 save % and a 2 shutouts. That’s not vezna numbers by any stretch but it’s pretty damn good.

I agree with you the team needs to buckle down and focus on structure and defence. When they do that as we saw they are literally unstoppable.

 

[K1984]

Yup, and they were making the same mistakes the 2 games before, first 2 periods against Buffalo, and another full game against Montreal. But fortunately for them, they can get away with that trash against young, inexperienced and/or less talented clubs.

This is the thing. We’ve been playing this game for weeks, probably more so months. We even played like this against the Sabres, but the Sabres suck so the explosion in the third masked it.

9-1-2 or whatever it is we were coming into this was on the back of 20 min efforts against shit teams as well as some OT luck. We have not been playing anything resembling good enough hockey since more or less the all star break.

 

[TB12]

With the massively compressed schedule (f*** you NHL) to end the season, practice time is almost zero and I think attention to detail in the systems tends to fall off. Not an excuse for some of the lackluster play but would be nice for them to have a few days of quality practice to reinforce system play.

 

[iCanada]

As far as I can tell no one in here is saying that. Myself included.

What I am (and many others are) saying is that unless this team becomes fully committed to defence, not floating on D (like we witnessed multiple times in last nights game from Connor, Draisaitl and Nurse) and better puck management (are you listening Bouchard?) they arent going to win jack in the playoffs.
A top 10 goalie doesnt fix that...he only temporarily covers it up.
I am interested in an actual solution and although this team has some holes they still have the capability of beating any team in the League if they can make a habit of playing a strong and responsible systems game.

See what I'm saying though is that objectively - the stats say we are very good defensively. No team is perfect. Every team gives up tons of chances.

Every game we get 15-20 grade A ten Bell chances. Most games we give up 5-10 ten Bell chances.

You've said before that you don't like the analytics because they don't account for don't things. Well - prove it. Run a statistical model that says those things make a difference. The best numbers we have right now say we're damn good at limiting chances against.

 

[guymez]

Since knobloch took over skinner is 29-9-4 with a .914 save % and a 2 shutouts. That’s not vezna numbers by any stretch but it’s pretty damn good.

I agree with you the team needs to buckle down and focus on structure and defence. When they do that as we saw they are literally unstoppable.

100% on both points.
Skinner has been more than 'good enough' since Knoblauch arrived,

Whats changed since then? The team has been more committed to playing a tight defenisve system and the record reflects that.
I think for a younger goalie its important to be able to predict what the team in front of you is going to do defensively. That helps your game because you can simplify your movement. Thats especially true for a positional goalie like Skinner.
When there is a literal clown show happening in front of you (the breakdowns are more frequent and massve) it becomes too difficult to manage.
So if the clown show doesnt happen Skinner can play his game which actually does mean that he can make a big save when the structure periodically breaks down.
Thats exactly what I have seen for most of Knoblauchs tenure so far.
So its clear by now that they can win with Skinner if they have that level of team commitment to defence.

 

[guymez]

As an aside...the auto multi quote feature sure is a pain in the ass.

See what I'm saying though is that objectively - the stats say we are very good defensively. No team is perfect. Every team gives up tons of chances.

Every game we get 15-20 grade A ten Bell chances. Most games we give up 5-10 ten Bell chances.

You've said before that you don't like the analytics because they don't account for don't things. Well - prove it. Run a statistical model that says those things make a difference. The best numbers we have right now say we're damn good at limiting chances against.

I like analytics just fine. That isnt the issue at all.
As I have said repeatedly...the stats are not telling you enough of the story.
Its a parital view and if you use that as if it were a complete picture those stats can quite often lead you astray.

Watching the games is extremely important.

 

[iCanada]

As an aside...the auto multi quote feature sure is a pain in the ass.


I like analytics just fine. That isnt the issue at all.
As I have said repeatedly...the stats are not telling you enough of the story.
Its a parital view and if you use that as if it were a complete picture those stats will lead you astray much of the time.

Watching the games is extremely important.

So because you disagree with me I didn't watch the game?

 

[guymez]

So because you disagree with me I didn't watch the game?

No...because you are posting like the analytics are telling the whole story of how the game played out.
They just arent.
If we were to sit together and watch that game we could pause and replay each and every scoring chance and take note of the details/nuance and how the stats wont be able to properly log that nuance.
I try to use those stats as a general guide. A indication of potential trending...not as gospel.

For example...when I see a contested HDSC chance it still gets logged as a HDSC but its not as dangerous as a uncontested HDSC. Thats what I saw quite often in last nights game.
When the Oilers gave up a HDSC it was extremely bad....a weak play due to poor puck management where an Oilers player turned over off a puck for a wide open uncontested shot.
Or poor coverage allowed for the same uncontested wide open shot.
I didnt see that in the Leafs D zone. What I saw was a contested shot (or a partially contested shot) which quite often causes the offensive player to rush his shot. Diminishing the actual quality of the scoring chance but because that scoring chance was in the area which is considered a HDSC it logs the same as the other example I gave.
So if the Oilers have more contested HDSC's but the HDSC's they give up were completely uncontested that doesnt mean that they were the better team in the game.
It also doesnt mean that Skinner was the issue.
That is a rough breakdown of what I saw in last nights game.

BTW...I am just factoring in the first 2 periods. The 3rd period (after it was 5-0) was largely irrelevant.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Skinner had a bad game, after a run of 7 very good ones.

We can also say he had a bad game without the silly "the team is f***ed with him" narrative rearing it's ugly head. They aren't mutually exclusive.

In Skinners last 15 starts 8 times he's under .900 save %. Despite playing for a club where his backup is rocking .921 save % .

The Oilers dominate games and have been for months but its impossible to do that forever. There are games where your opponent will get their chance share, These are quality teams and players that can generate it.

The weirdest thing on the Oilers board is that people will readily blame some of the best players on Earth and yet will defend an average goalie (Skinner) unconditionally.

Sure the team didn't have their best game but there is no way that the run of play was suggesting 5-0. Even the telecast was saying that and crediting one of the goalies for making stops.

 

[guymez]

With the massively compressed schedule (f*** you NHL) to end the season, practice time is almost zero and I think attention to detail in the systems tends to fall off. Not an excuse for some of the lackluster play but would be nice for them to have a few days of quality practice to reinforce system play.

Good point.

 

[K1984]

In Skinners last 15 starts 8 times he's under .900 save %. Despite playing for a club where his backup is rocking .921 save % .

The Oilers dominate games and have been for months but its impossible to do that forever. There are games where your opponent will get their chance share, These are quality teams and players that can generate it.

The weirdest thing on the Oilers board is that people will readily blame some of the best players on Earth and yet will defend an average goalie (Skinner) unconditionally.

Sure the team didn't have their best game but there is no way that the run of play was suggesting 5-0. Even the telecast was saying that and crediting one of the goalies for making stops.

Skinner might not have had to even face some of the Grade AAAAA+ shots that went in on him had “the best player on earth” bothered at all in the defensive zone on about two of the goals, which has been a consistent theme lately.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Skinner might not have had to even face some of the Grade AAAAA+ shots that went in on him had “the best player on earth” bothered at all in the defensive zone on about two of the goals, which has been a consistent theme lately.

The Oilers give up less HDSC than most teams. This team has the puck a lot, on a string, and has Ozone possession a lot.

In anycase hey blame the best players on Earth and absolve routine goaltending. That isn't really examining where the shortcoming is. Really when you give only 8 scoring chances in two periods and 5 are in the back of your net thats a problem. Every team has break downs, so did the Leafs. Samsonov was making stops at those times.

Do you not notice that Skinner is starting games questionably with some regularity? He doesn't look sharp in first periods.

 

[iCanada]

The Oilers give up less HDSC than most teams. This team has the puck a lot, on a string, and has Ozone possession a lot.

In anycase hey blame the best players on Earth and absolve routine goaltending. That isn't really examining where the shortcoming is. Really when you give only 8 scoring chances in two periods and 5 are in the back of your net thats a problem. Every team has break downs, so did the Leafs. Samsonov was making stops at those times.

Do you not notice that Skinner is starting games questionably with some regularity? He doesn't look sharp in first periods.

I mentioned it earlier - a colleague of mine is a STH in Lethbridge and this isn't a new problem for Skinner - he told my essentially he was great if he escaped the first 5 minutes of the game without a GA.

It's largely true too - you can largely tell whether tell have a good game or a poor game off just the first 5 shots. If one of those goes in usually he'll have a sub .800 night regardless of what the scoring chance numbers look like.

 

[foshizzle]

Since the coaching change skinner has been one of the best goalies in the nhl by every metric

I guess you haven’t checked HDSV%?

 

[booyakasha]

WHOOOOOOOAAA THERE BIG FELLA

Im saying GM 6 max


where?
53$ in NS


where?
53$ in NS


That McMann is a good hockey player. Never heard of him before

Alberta, real canadian liquorstore.

 

[Stoneman89]

I post about it more when he plays bad - but a large part of that is I have to defend myself from 10 people saying nothing is ever his fault.

If I have time between the errands I have to run, the gym, and the start of the next game I might comb through. In the mean time - feel free to browse for yourself.

Edit: seems like I'm the mean time every post I made in a three year window before the Avs game isn't on the server.

View attachment 840963

In any case - I think maybe the crux of it is that my definition of good Goaltending is different than a lot of people. It's let's about your save percentage or GAA for me and more about how many big saves a guy makes - I don't care if you let in 5 if most Goaltenders would let in 6. Skinner is objectively pretty bad at that metric.

I honestly can't think of anyone who has ever said "nothing is ever his fault." That type of claim, yes, you will need to pull that one out so we can all see it. I'll wait.

And for the record, when Skinner hasn't had a good game, I will admit it. I've already said, last night, there were a couple I think he could have had. they would have been great saves, but your goalie has to make those more often than not in order for you to win. Kind of like he was doing in the 7 games prior, and more or less been doing since December.

As well. What's Skinners save % and GAA since the horrific start of both he AND the team. In other words, since beginning of December when they turned it around.

 

[booyakasha]

I don’t know who that person is, but what part about that tweet is wrong? It’s a mind blowing amount of wasted cap.

he's an idiot, end of.

 

[K1984]

The Oilers give up less HDSC than most teams. This team has the puck a lot, on a string, and has Ozone possession a lot.

In anycase hey blame the best players on Earth and absolve routine goaltending. That isn't really examining where the shortcoming is. Really when you give only 8 scoring chances in two periods and 5 are in the back of your net thats a problem. Every team has break downs, so did the Leafs. Samsonov was making stops at those times.

Do you not notice that Skinner is starting games questionably with some regularity? He doesn't look sharp in first periods.

I’ve noticed that he has bad starts, but he is much more consistently recovering from them lately vs before. There is measurable improvement there.

I don’t know why so many are pretending that the HDSC the Leafs had were in any way equivalent to anything the Oilers got, other than to slag the goalie at the first opportunity. We are talking goals that were basically tap ins because of the circus play of the group in front, with our leadership group (Nurse and McDavid in particular) leading the charge in that respect. I have no idea how you could call any of the goals that went in on him as “routine.” That’s frankly an agenda driven narrative.

I have zero problem calling out bad goaltending when I see it, I just think it’s asinine to pin that game on him.

 

[Oilers in NS]

Alberta, real canadian liquorstore.

Great price
Not fair to us drunks in NS. Man Trudeau hates us

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Read on X that it was a" coaching and training staff decision" to scratch Kane and that he wanted to play through it. Never the full story the first time and I'm not blaming the poster. These media types are s***

 

[booyakasha]

Great price
Not fair to us drunks in NS. Man Trudeau hates us

I bought 2 cubes... sale only lasts until Tuesday.
already into my 2nd 2-4...wife isn't happy.