NHLPA responds to NHL claims of massive losses

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by John Flyers Fan, Dec 16, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
View Users: View Users
  1. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,416
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
  2. Silver

    Silver Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    5,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    California
    Home Page:
    How do they assume the 3% growth?

    Especially for a league that had lower US television ratings for the Stanley Cup Final than a regular MLB game? Coming off a stoppage, there aren't going to be as many butts in seats, especially in the US (with the exception of Minnesota and maybe a few teams in the north east.)

    That's going to hit revenues hard, isn't it?
     
  3. X0ssbar

    X0ssbar Guest

    All I have to say is that if the NHLPA feels so confident in their projections - why don't they guarantee them? ...I think we all know the answer to that question.
     
    Last edited by moderator : Dec 16, 2004
  4. Evil Chris

    Evil Chris Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2003
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Montreal
    The union is desperate to have the people and the media clearly on their side.
    Ain't gonna happen.
     
  5. Feenom

    Feenom Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    snow remover
    Location:
    Spliffton
    Home Page:
    Why doesn't Gary Bettman respond by calling a news conference and just ending the the season that was never going to happen anyway? That would be the best way to shut Goodenow up...
     
  6. Those projections do kind of sound hollow, especially in light of the 24% rollback offer from the players.
     
  7. Hasbro

    Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    39,097
    Likes Received:
    1,514
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Drone
    Location:
    South Rectangle
    And the fact that it took the PA THIS long to counter the Levit Report in any substancial fashion.

    I'm sure there's some spin in the Leagues figure on losses, but the NHLPAs is bordering on ludicrous.

    Owners are greedy and shortsighted, but would they turn down nearly 3 million in profits for a team to try and squezze more out of the players?
     
  8. vanlady

    vanlady Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2004
    Messages:
    810
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This has never been about money, IT'S ABOUT POWER AND CONTROL. Why do you think the owners of the Leafs would stand to lose 15 million a month.
     
  9. Hasbro

    Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    39,097
    Likes Received:
    1,514
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Drone
    Location:
    South Rectangle
    It has been for the players
     
  10. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    141,608
    Likes Received:
    2,702
    Trophy Points:
    232
    They're both not even close. I would put down any money that it will be just around even.
     
  11. Kaiped Krusader

    Kaiped Krusader Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Rylan up the Opposition
    How are the Leafs losing $15 million a month?
     
  12. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,948
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Ottawa (Go 'Nucks)
    Home Page:
    What a joke. The PA complains that the NHL doesn't tell the truth with numbers? Here's a case where Goodenow is flat out lying through his teeth.

    He's trying to claim the NHL will maintain the revenue increases of the last few years, when absolutely everything has changed. The expansion funds are gone, there are no more expansion revenues coming in. The newness factor has already started to wear off in the expansion markets, and crowds are down, now based on performance. Almost everybody already has their new building, so that's closed off. The television revenues are massively reduced, with the new NBC deal.

    And then immediately after saying "We are not saying that revenues will grow by 9.4%" and they believe that 7.8% is far more accurate, he has the gall to then calculate "corrections" to the NHL proposal using the 9.4%.
     
  13. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest


    The temper tantrums from the PA have started right on cue. Too funny.

    The most laughable thing is how the union completely ignores the role this lockout plays in the one time dip in salary inflation and the obvious decrease it will cause in post-lockout revenue.

    Hey Bobby boy, do you think the 2% salary inflation last year had something to do with smart organizations getting ready for the cap?

    Hey Bobby boy, do you think the NHL is going to get more than 3% revenue growth coming out of a lockout, with no new TV deals, no new arena's coming on-line, and no new expansion fees?

    The NHL was being optomistic at 3% growth!

    Great job Bob, I'm sure the owners will be fooled into totally ignoring crucial factors affecting your numbers.
     
  14. Puck

    Puck Ninja

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    10,276
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Location:
    Ottawa
    If you want to believe the NHL's numbers, then why can't others believe the PA's numbers?

    Sophistry.

    Both sides.
     
  15. Motown Beatdown

    Motown Beatdown Need a slump buster

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,572
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    Home Page:

    This has nothing to do about the Levitt reports it's based on the players proposal that the owners rejected
     
  16. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    12,273
    Likes Received:
    537
    Trophy Points:
    214
    Location:
    Montreal
    Because that wouldn't be smart at this point.
     
  17. Egil

    Egil Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    8,838
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    129
    Home Page:
    This is the beauty of PROJECTIONS. Both sides could be correct. Now, taking each sides projection, I would say the NHL's asusmption of 3% growth is extremely reasonable given the REDUCTION of the TV contract and post lockout problems.

    Now, and this is the crux of the whole thing. The PA still hasn't made anything close to their best "free market" offer. There needs to be a consistant, always usable way for owners to reduce the salary of RFA's should their performance warrent it. There needs to be a more sever, lower threshold luxury tax (the PA's offer tax threshold was 65% of league revenue, WAAY, WAAAYY too high). The PA, if they want there current system, truly need to offer meaningful system conscessions, and not the window dressing they did last week. There ideas are good, but, as in the NHL offer, there implementation left much to be desired.

    So, after Christmas, I expect the PA to do something along the following lines:

    1 - Luxury Tax

    - 20% starting at 35 Million
    - 50% starting at 40 Million (escelating 10% a year for consecutive years over this amount)
    - 100% over 50 Million (escelating 20% a year for consecutive years over this amount

    2 - QO

    - Either reduced compensation (but still matchin rights) for QO bellow 100% (say 75% QO has max compensation of 2 first round picks instead of 5 for a 100% QO)

    or

    - QO of owner taking player to arbitration. If the player is underperfoming, then this should reduce there contract substantially

    3 - Rookie Cap

    - Same as before, except shrink the number of top 15 bonuses to points, goals, GAA and sv%, along with a standard ice time bonus for anything over 15 minutes, 20 minutes and 25 minutes. Also Cap the top 15 bonuses to triple the base amount of $850,000 (so no more than $2.55 million.

    4 - Automatic CBA exit clause/ player salary rollback

    Either the CBA can be cancelled by the owners or a salary rollback to 56% of revenue if player salaries exceed 65% of revenue at any time during this CBA

    Now, until the players make a serious offer based on not having guaranteed linkage (and I understand why they are hesitant for true linkage), we ain't going nowhere. And so far, the PA has had good ideas in its proposals, but nothing that is going to entice the owners to negotiate off of the linkage hill. Something along the lines above may get the owners off that hill and negotiating, but not the minor change offer the PA presented last week.
     
  18. MarkZackKarl

    MarkZackKarl Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,977
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    131
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Home Page:
    dunno bout the tax

    I feel that a tax is a non-starter, the teams dont want to share revenues. They want to cap the teams payroll at the lowest end (30 odd million) to guarantee 70 million dollar profits for the leafs, and even 25 million or more for the Sens.

    I still dont understand why people support the owners, they are doing this to get ROI's of a good 20% or more a year... and they say its a bad investment. :banghead: :mad:
     
  19. ArtG

    ArtG Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,811
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    WHO CARES HOW MUCH MONEY THEY'VE LOST?!?!

    the bottom line is that the league is losing money and no league should be doin that..
     
  20. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,416
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    That depends on why they're losing money. Obviously the Rangers weren't all that concerned that they lost $40 million (which we all know isn't accurate).

    Ed Snider saw a chance for the Cup, so he decided that it was better to take that chance and lose $2-3 million instead of make $2-3 million.

    Peter Karmonos thought it was a smart idea to move a team to Carolina, and Gary Bettman and the Board of Governors thought it was smart to place expansion teams in Nashville, Miami, and Atlanta.


    Everyone of thesewere were well thought out descions by supposedly very bright and successful businessmen. Seems kind of ironic that it's up to the "dumb jocks" to save the educated businessmen.
     
  21. TexSen

    TexSen Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    Messages:
    1,043
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Schaefer..Beer..mmmm

    What's funny in all this is it reminds me of Ross Perot running for President and taking out a 30 minutes "informercial" slot on the tv and running through chart after chart after chart explaining his plan for economic recovery, tax decreases, deficit cutting etc. etc. etc.

    The average American (equivilent to what I would be the average US hockey fan if not NHL fan league-wide) watched for 30 seconds and then by the second chart, eyes glazed over and thoughts wandered to things like, "did I remember to take out the trash?"

    I imagine the same is the case here with the NHLPA's charts.
     
  22. ArtG

    ArtG Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,811
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    What's your point?

    With a cap in place none of those things would have happened and those owners would have made a hefty profit. I think that's the whole idea.

    The players seem to think that it's their god-given right to have everything they have now. Well the bottom line is, the owners have been suffering for far too long and I know nobody cares because they're all filthy rich, faceless bastards. One thing should be clear here though: if the players get guaranteed contracts why can't they guarantee the owners a system that will consistently be predictable in terms of revenue?
     
  23. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,416
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:

    The following wouldn't have happened under a salary cap: Peter Karmonos thought it was a smart idea to move a team to Carolina, and Gary Bettman and the Board of Governors thought it was smart to place expansion teams in Nashville, Miami, and Atlanta. :help:

    The owners have been suffering for far too long ???

    Of the 80 or so years the the NHL has been in existince, the players may have had things in there favor for about 15-20, and the owners have had about 60-65
     
  24. ArtG

    ArtG Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,811
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    96
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    At the time everybody thought expansion was a good idea. The league was on the upswing and interest was huge. I admit, looking back it was not a good idea but the league would have been in trouble regardless of these franchises.

    Well, I don't want to look too far past the merge of the WHA and NHL as far as owners suffering. However, I can tell you first hand that here in Vancouver I don't ever remember the owners talking about how much money they were making not counting the last 3-4 years. In the late 90s the Canucks were losing $20-30million/season and it looked like they were on the verge of being moved. I think maybe that's why Canadian fans are so firmly behind the league. Especially after Winnipeg and Quebec City..
     
  25. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,416
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    Yes look what happens when you have smart management, a team like Vancouver can make huge profits each year, and that with winning just one playoff series over the last 3 seasons.

    Smart managements can make this system work.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"