NHL vs NBA Attendance 2010-2011

[htpwn]

Anyone have any clue what the hell this means?

"Rag" numbers? "Cooperate tixs"?

Ranger tickets? Corporate tickets?

 

[jsginsocal]

See the little analysis I did right bellow I specifically wrote "control" which was the nicest way I could find of saying that the Lakers are ahead but not by much. In some other cases I used other terms and gave a much more bleak description, all depending on the markets and the discrepency between attendance. I get what your saying though as my final conclusion I wrote "Dominate. Maybe I should of used a different word there however take it for what it is, I will remember it for the future.

The Lakers are so far ahead of the Kings it is not even funny. The attendance may not reflect it - but the local television ratings and the "imprint" on the city is greatly in the Lakers favor. There is simply no comparison.

 

[kdb209]

The Lakers are so far ahead of the Kings it is not even funny. The attendance may not reflect it - but the local television ratings and the "imprint" on the city is greatly in the Lakers favor. There is simply no comparison.

If you want to start comparing TV ratings - it's been done in multiple threads in the past.

There have been plenty of threads comparing NHL vs NBA (vs MLB vs NFL vs etc).

2009-2010 NHL TV Ratings + TV Revenues
NHL/NBA Attendance Comparison (Shared Markets Only)
OT: Stern says NBA projects $400 million in losses

In which American cities is hockey the # 1 sport?
Question to Americans; Why isn't hockey more popular in the US?

Sportsmediawatch has an nice blog post summarizing the NHL/NBA/MLB RSN ratings numbers from sportsbusinessjournal - NHL/NBA '09-'10, MLB '09:

http://www.sportsmediawatch.net/2010/04/local-on-eights-ratings-for-nba-mlb-and.html


C&P from last seasons's 2009-2010 NHL TV Ratings + TV Revenues

Comparison of NHL vs NBA vs MLB RSN ratings
Having come across updated SBJ RSN numbers (midseason '09-'10 for NHL/NBA and 2009 full season for MLB):

NHL: http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/64539
NBA: http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/64815
MLB: http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/63798

From the SBJ numbers, the only US cities where the NHL got higher ratings than the NBA this season were Detroit, Philly, and the Twin Cities (The Rangers almost pulled ahead of the Knicks and significantly outdrew the Nets) - the Wings passed the Pistons, but the Caps fell behind the Wizards.

The only US cities where the NHL got higher ratings than MLB were Pittsburgh and Washington (The Sharks out drew the A's were far behind the Giants) - no changes from last season

Atlanta - Hawks: 1.65/2.03 - Thrashers: 0.34 - Braves: 3.42
Boston - Celtics: 3.46 - Bruins 2.14 - Red Sox: 9.46
Chicago - Bulls: 2.39 - Black Hawks: 1.94 - Cubs: 4.16 - White Sox: 2.28
Dallas - Mavs: 2.15 - Stars: 0.72 - Rangers: 2.54
Denver - Nuggest: 2.7 - Avalanche: 1.52 - Rockies: 4.12
Detroit - Pistons: 2.41 - Red Wings: 4.06 - Tigers: 6.89
Bay Area - Warriors: 1.39 - Sharks: 1.09 - Giants 3.27 - A's: 0.82
LA - Lakers: 3.48 - Clippers: 0.47 - Kings: 0.30 - Ducks: 0.39 - Dodgers: 2.15 - Angels: 1.22
Florida - Heat: 2.46 - Panthers: 0.26 - Marlins: 3.23
Minn - TWolves: 0.76 - Wild: 1.57 - Twins: 6.25
New York - Knicks: 1.03 - Nets 0.32 - Rangers: 0.96 - Devils: 0.55 - Isles: 0.38 - Yankees: 4.66 - Mets 2.69
Philly - 76ers: 1.39 - Flyers: 2.16 - Phillies: 7.13
Phoenix - Suns: 3.13 - Coyotes: 0.56 - D'Backs: 3.32
Washington - Wizards: 1.44 - Capitals: 1.17 - Nationals: 0.60
St Louis - NBA: NA - Blues: 2.27 - Cards: 7.97
Tampa - NBA: NA - Lightning: 0.61 - Rays: 3.53
Pittsburgh - NBA: NA - Penguins: 8.08 - Pirates: 3.25

And for comparison, the corresponding numbers from last season:

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/61335 (NBA)
http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/61172 (NHL)
http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/63798 (MLB)

From the SBJ numbers, the only US cities where the NHL got higher ratings than the NBA were Philly, Washington, and the Twin Cities (The Rangers did out draw the Nets, but were behind the Knicks).

The only US cities where the NHL got higher ratings than MLB were Pittsburgh and Washington (The Sharks out drew the A's were far behind the Giants)

Atlanta - Hawks: 1.4 - Thrashers: 0.23 - Braves: 3.52
Boston - Celtics: 3.7 - Bruins 2.16 - Red Sox: 9.46
Chicago - Bulls: 2.6 - Black Hawks: 1.07 - Cubs: 4.16 - White Sox: 2.18
Dallas - Mavs: 1.2 - Stars: 0.52 - Rangers: 2.54
Denver - Nuggest: 2.2 - Avalanche: 1.65 - Rockies: 4.12
Detroit - Pistons: 3.9 - Red Wings: 3.7 - Tigers: 6.89
Bay Area - Warriors: 1.5 - Sharks: 1.25 - Giants 3.27 - A's: 0.82
LA - Lakers: 4.2 - Clippers: 0.5 - Kings: 0.38 - Ducks: 0.29 - Dodgers: 2.15 - Angels: 1.22
Florida - Heat: 2.2 - Panthers: 0.15 - Marlins: 3.33
Minn - TWolves: 1.1 - Wild: 2.22 - Twins: 6.25
New York - Knicks: 1.2 - Nets 0.6 - Rangers: 1.03 - Devils: 0.38 - Isles: 0.17 - Yankees: 4.66 - Mets 2.69
Philly - 76ers: 1.5 - Flyers: 2.22 - Phillies: 7.13
Phoenix - Suns: 3.4 - Coyotes: 0.5 - D'Backs: 3.32
Washington - Wizards: 1.1 - Capitals: 1.2 - Nationals: 0.60
St Louis - NBA: NA - Blues: 1.32 - Cards: 7.97
Tampa - NBA: NA - Lightning: 0.49 - Rays: 3.13
Pittsburgh - NBA: NA - Penguins: 6.14 - Pirates: 3.25

And for even more completeness - and even though it is a ludicrous comparison - ratings from the NFL:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/spo...1?OpenDocument

Rams rank 28th in NFL TV rating

01/15/2010

The Rams weren't quite as bad in the ranking of NFL teams' television ratings as they were on the field. They had the worst record (1-15) in the league this season but telecasts of their games outdrew four other clubs in local TV ratings.

...

TEAM; RATING; SHARE
1. New Orleans Saints; 49.3; 70
2. Pittsburgh Steelers; 45.6; 70
3. Minnesota Vikings; 38.7; 68
4. Green Bay Packers; 37.1; 63
5. Cincinnati Bengals; 36.5; 61
6. Indianapolis Colts; 34.6; 55
7. Dallas Cowboys; 32.7; 58
8. Denver Broncos; 32.5; 59
9. San Diego Chargers; 31.3; 56
10. Baltimore Ravens; 30.9; 54
11. Tennessee Titans; 30.9; 50
12. Buffalo Bills; 30.1; 51
13. New England Patriots; 30.1; 57
14. Kansas City Chiefs; 29.8; 54
15. Philadelphia Eagles; 28.5; 48
16. Chicago Bears; 27.2; 49
17. Cleveland Browns; 25.7; 49
18. Carolina Panthers; 23.7; 41
19. Washington Redskins; 23.3; 47
20. Arizona Cardinals; 23.2; 41
21. Jacksonville Jaguars; 23.1; 38
22. Tampa Bay Buccaneers; 21.3; 41
23. Atlanta Falcons; 20.9; 39
24. Miami Dolphins; 19.5; 39
25. Seattle Seahawks; 18.3; 42
26. Houston Texans; 17.5; 36
27. Detroit Lions; 17.4; 38
28. Rams; 16.2; 34
29. San Francisco 49ers; 15; 39
30. New York Giants; 14; 27
31. New York Jets; 12.9; 25
32. Oakland Raiders; 9.3; 26

Source: Nielsen Media Research, NFL

 

[IU Hawks fan]

The Panthers haven't played in Miami for more than a decade. Sunrise is a suburb of Fort Lauderdale.

Who cares? The Dolphins or Marlins don't play in Miami. Neither is the University OF Miami.

Miami is a rather small city, only 433K which is 43rd in the nation, that is the centerpiece for a large metropolitan area, 5.547M, 7th largest. The "they don't play in Miami" argument is highly flawed.

 

[macavoy]

I still don't think you can say that the Lakers are "dominating" the Kings when the difference is less than 1000 per game.

2% difference in capacity or whatever, it's really not that big of a difference.

Lakers dominate the Kings if you know all of the facts. In order to get certain Laker packages, they make you buy so many Kings tickets.

AKA to get corporate box for the Lakers, you have to buy it for the Kings as well. Some of my facts are fuzzy but I remember an AEG rep saying something along those lines.

 

[LadyStanley]

If you're going to compare the Heat and Panthers, then you need to do the Sharks and Warriors as the distance between franchises is similar.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Lakers dominate the Kings if you know all of the facts. In order to get certain Laker packages, they make you buy so many Kings tickets.

AKA to get corporate box for the Lakers, you have to buy it for the Kings as well. Some of my facts are fuzzy but I remember an AEG rep saying something along those lines.

I think a lot of cities do that with boxes. At the United Center the boxes are ran by them, and grant you access to all events: Hawks, Bulls, concerts, circus, etc.

Tickets though, the only probably other is Leafs/Raptors.

 

[EbencoyE]

Who cares? The Dolphins or Marlins don't play in Miami. Neither is the University OF Miami.

Huh? Of course they do. Last time I went to downtown Miami, I could see the blimps circling Dolphin Stadium not far away.

Also, Sunrise is like halfway to Orlando. It's literally on the very edge of the everglades. You can't get any further away from Miami and still be in civilization. They play up there because their market are the northern transplants and rich white people that live in Fort Lauderdale. They have no market in Miami.

 

[ebox99]

is it possible to add ave seat tickets to this comparison?

 

[straka91*]

And the way the NHL is trying to become the NBA im predicting this will reverse and the NHL will be in thier shoes.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Huh? Of course they do. Last time I went to downtown Miami, I could see the blimps circling Dolphin Stadium not far away.

Also, Sunrise is like halfway to Orlando. It's literally on the very edge of the everglades. You can't get any further away from Miami and still be in civilization. They play up there because their market are the northern transplants and rich white people that live in Fort Lauderdale. They have no market in Miami.

What are you talking about?

Sunrise is 211 miles from Orlando.

It's 35 miles from BankAtlantic Center to American Airlines Arena. That's how long I live from the United Center. It isn't far at all.


Dolphins Stadium is in Miami Gardens, FL. It is not within Miami proper.

 

[EbencoyE]

I was exaggerating on the halfway to Orlando thing, but that's what it feels like when you have to make that drive. That's why the Panthers play up there, because most of their season ticket holders are up there. If you only go to games occasionally it's not too bad, but no season ticket holders are going to travel all the way to Sunrise for every game from Miami.

Also, Miami Gardens is practically Miami as it is right next to downtown. You can't even compare the distance between Miami/Miami Gardens to Miami/Sunrise

 

[Hindstriker]

Anyone have any clue what the hell this means?

"Rag" numbers? "Cooperate tixs"?

Corporate tixs. Rag numbers are the result of corporations buying the tix but no one shows up for the game.

 

[Breakaway3527]

Looking at the baseball ratings in an earlier post makes me wonder why are the ratings so high. To me it is a kids game not really a man's sport. I don't get the appeal as a spectator sport. I have better things to do in the summer than watch baseball. In my circle of friends baseball is ridiculed or completely ignored.

 

[selkie]

Detroit Pistons are giving away their remaining upper bowl seats for the night (2/2/11) free as part of a 'snow day' promotion. I guess they figured they'd at least hopefully get some concession money that way despite the storm.

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2011/02/pistons_fans_can_get_free_tick.html

 

[KuralySnipes]

I dont get how people can watch or play basketball..

I'm honestly not a HUGE football kid either

 

[nyrmetros]

What are you talking about?

Sunrise is 211 miles from Orlando.

It's 35 miles from BankAtlantic Center to American Airlines Arena. That's how long I live from the United Center. It isn't far at all.


Dolphins Stadium is in Miami Gardens, FL. It is not within Miami proper.

Before my grandmother passed, she lived in Miami Gardens. It was a stones throw from Ft. Lauderdale, and a very short trip to Sawgrass Mills where the Panthers play now. The drive to downtown Miami was only 30 minutes. Most people who I met down there considered the separate towns 1 region. One of the biggest issues there is the lack of public transport. The TriRail system only goes from West Palm Beach to Miami.

 

[Jeffrey93]

In alphabetical order:

ATLANTA
NBA - Hawks 14,395 76.90%
NHL - Thrashers 13,053 70.40%

Terrible for both...but better for the Hawks. I'd have to wager the Hawks average ticket price is higher (possibly only slightly) than the Thrashers.

BOSTON
NBA - Celtics 18,624 100%
NHL - Bruins 17,565 100%

Both Celtics and Bruins have sold-out every game however the Capacity for Basketball in the building is greater then Hockey.

Than

CHICAGO
NBA - Bulls 21,548 103%
NHL - Blackhawks 21,301 108%

Both the Bulls and the Blackhawks have soldout every game, seems the Blackhawks may have more demand however the capacity for NBA is still greater then the NHL

This might be a trend....and most people know a basketball court is smaller than an NHL ice-surface.

DALLAS
NBA - Mavericks 19,969 104%
NHL - Stars 14,968 80.80%

The Mavericks easily beat out the Stars in attendance.

NBA - 2
NHL - 0

DENVER/COLORADO
NBA - Nuggets 16,774 87.60%
NHL - Avalanche 14,762 82%

Nuggets are beating out the Avalanche by a fair margin however the Av's attendance is on an upswing and they have a young, exciting and competitive team which may help in the near future.

NBA - 3
NHL - 0

DETROIT
NBA - Pistons 16,589 75.10%
NHL - Red Wings 19,433 96.80%

Alas we have reached our first market where the NHL is dominant over the NBA. With the way the economy is in Detroit, you can clearly see the allegiance of this city/state is with the NHL.

Joe Louis is WAY closer to the Canadian Border than the Palace of Auburn Hills is. If the Red Wings played at the Palace and the Pistons played at the Joe.....both would stink.
NBA - 3
NHL - 1

LOS ANGELES
NBA - Lakers 18,997 99.70%
NBA - Clippers 17,171 90.10%
NHL - Kings 18,061 97.60%

The Lakers control the scene here. At least the Kings are ahead of the lowly Clippers. The Kings have a bright future ahead with a young, talented and exciting team.

NBA - 4
NHL - 1
(Nobody counts the Clippers)

[MIAMI
NBA - Heat 19,761 100.80%
NHL - Panthers 15,123 78.60%

The heat dominate the market in Miami. With the superstars they have recently signed in the offseason it is no wonder that the attendance at Heat games skyrocketed.

I gotta figure the attendance for the Heat has ALWAYS averaged higher than that of the Panthers.
NBA - 5
NHL - 1

MINNESOTA
NBA - Timberwolves 14,573 75.30%
NHL - Wild 17,717 98.10%

This is traditionally a very strong hockey market and it shows. The Wild haven't been great but their fan support is incredible.

A market in which the NHL had abandoned already......
NBA - 5
NHL - 2

NEW JERSEY
NBA - Nets 12,977 70.10%
NHL - Devils 14,270 81%

And the Devils take the cake on this one. Even if the start of the season was attrocious for them, the fan support is still there compared to the Nets who's attendance is terrible.

Both attendances are terrible....nobody gets points. Brutal overall.

NEW YORK
NBA - NY Knicks 19,699 99.70%
NHL - NY Rangers 18,049 99.20%
NHL - NY Islanders 9,856 60.50%

Based on the capacity of the arena for the NBA and NHL in the MSG, the attendance figures are relatively even. The Islanders on the other hand......

Even for the Knicks/Rangers.....a negative one for the Islanders.
NBA - 5
NHL - 2

PHILADELPHIA
NBA - 76ers 13,977 68.80%
NHL - Flyers 19,640 100.70%

The Flyers take this hands down. Their fan support is there whether the team does good or bad. The 76ers attendance on the other hand is terrible.

Good hockey market.

NBA - 5
NHL - 3

PHOENIX
NBA - Suns 17,518 95.10%
NHL - Coyotes 10,796 61.70%

As a hockey fan I wanted to skip this one, unfortunately I can't. The Suns dominate Phoenix. The Coyotes attendance is simply attrocious.

This should be a negative for the NHL and a positive for the NBA....but I'll leave it as one for the NBA.
NBA - 6
NHL - 3

TORONTO
NBA - Raptors 16,197 81.80%
NHL - Maple Leafs 19,316 102.70%

Welcome to Canada where Hockey rules and nothing else matters. Our only Canadian market that has an NBA team, and as bad as the Leafs have bee in the past few seasons (decades from some people's view) the fan support is phenomanal. The Raptors... if they don't succeed they are only an afterthought.

Doesn't count. You could put any sport in Toronto (including a 2nd NHL team) and it wouldn't come anywhere close to the Leafs. This is too unique of a market to award the "NHL" points for it.
NBA - 6
NHL - 3

WASHINGTON
NBA - Wizards 15,872 78.70%
NHL - Capitals 18,397 100%

What a story this has been. Since the arrival of Ovechkin and other young exciting players like Backstrom, Semin and Green, this team has started developping a completely new a bigger rabid fanbase. Even their TV Ratings are going up double digits Year-over-year for the past 4-5 years.

It's a shakey market...but I'll give the point to the NHL.
NBA - 6
NHL - 4

In Conclusion...

Number of Markets dominated by the:
NBA - 6
NHL - 6
Even - 3

I got 6 to 4. And the NBA is in a free-fall according to a lot of the media. So....YAY! The NHL is in reach of the NBA....even though the NBA is doing mediocre at best!

Edit: I should be fair. My point of opinion is that the NBA is declining and they are fighting to stop it. Claiming the NHL is comparable to the NBA isn't a good thing. It does nothing but prove the NHL is fighting to catch-up to the NBA that is falling. And that the NHL still has yet to catch up....even though the NBA is running in place waiting.

 

[Jets4Life]

In attendance, the NBA and NHL are virtually even. However, the NBA is light years ahead in terms of popularity in the US, compared to the NHL. You just have to look at the demographics of the 2 leagues.

In America, fans of hockey tend to be white and upper/middle class, with much disposable income. On the other hand, basketball is huge in the inner cities of the US, where working class ethnic groups (especially African Americans) just do not have the income to attend games.

 

[Jeffrey93]

In attendance, the NBA and NHL are virtually even. However, the NBA is light years ahead in terms of popularity in the US, compared to the NHL. You just have to look at the demographics of the 2 leagues.

In America, fans of hockey tend to be white and upper/middle class, with much disposable income. On the other hand, basketball is huge in the inner cities of the US, where working class ethnic groups (especially African Americans) just do not have the income to attend games.

You are suggesting that the NBA has more fans than the NHL that can't afford to attend games. Right?

This presumption puts the NHL even lower, if it is true.

Am I wrong or is the NHL's focus 'growing the game' and spreading out to get a HUGE tv deal regardless of how well their individual franchises are doing?

The NBA doesn't seem to have that problem. They aren't a gate driven league, at least not as much as the NHL is. So comparing the two is really just an entertainment thing.

 

[Mike in MN]

The Panthers haven't played in Miami for more than a decade. Sunrise is a suburb of Fort Lauderdale.

Well, the Wild play in St Paul, and the T-Wolves play in Minneapolis. The arenas are approx 10 miles apart. Should they not be compared? Of course they should - it's the same market

 

[YNWA14]

Who said anything about selling out? My point was they'd be outdrawing the Devils right now if they was as good as before. 2007 they made the playoffs and had Vince Carter and Jason Kidd. If they still had those 2 guys and were fighting for a playoff spot like 2007, they'd have much better attendance and would outdraw their anchor tenant.

So what about how bad the Devils are doing? Does that not factor into the equation?

 

[Street Hawk]

So what about how bad the Devils are doing? Does that not factor into the equation?

I would not be comparing the Devils and Nets right now because the Nets are moving to Brooklyn soon, so the Prudential Center is only a temporary home, much like Greensboro was for the Hurricanes in the late 90's while the RBC Center was under construction.

 

[nyrmetros]

So what about how bad the Devils are doing? Does that not factor into the equation?

No because they Devils had crappy attendance with very good teams for many years..... There are more Rangers fans in North Jersey than Devils fans....

 

[Marv4Life]

No because they Devils had crappy attendance with very good teams for many years..... There are more Rangers fans in North Jersey than Devils fans....

In Bergen County where most of the fanbase is nowhere close to, maybe. Other than that prove it.

And it does factor. While we don't really "show up" until the playoffs, we sure as heck don't show up when the team sucks; this year proves it. Bandwagon FTW. Having a boring stigma attached to the club with an atrocious marketing department and mgmt who makes stupid decisions (announce 5,000 instead of the actual paid crowd during bad weather games) and screws over much of the fanbase every season with insane ticket prices don't help either.