Sportsnet: NHL should have thrown the Maple Leafs a McBone

[SprDaVE]

Can't have an entire team if sub 6' forwards in the top 6.

I mean real 6', not the baloney the stats say.

We're not anywhere near ready to be making these "We need size on our team!" comments.

What we need is talent and more talent, size or not.

Detroit has 1 player over 6' in their top 6 and he's a grinder, by the way... they seem to be doing just fine? Tampa Bay's tallest player in their top 6 is Stamkos at a whopping 6'1", a full 2 inches on Nylander and Marner, with smurfs like Johnson, Kucherov and Callahan in the midst of this "huge" top 6 lineup.

 

[mydnyte]

I'm over the fact the Leafs didn't win the #1 pick. I had set myself up for that in advance to avoid being disappointed. Honestly I thought Arizona was going to win when CBC showed the montage of Pittsburgh getting Crosby in 2005 and how he saved their franchise.

What will take me a while to get over is how Chris Johnston tweeted going into the last ball drawing the Leafs had the highest % to get the #1 pick. After reading that I have not felt so dejected since Game 7 against Boston.

while numerically accurate, not physically... the ball with the #1 on it weighs less than any other ball, so, has the best odds of 'raising' and being pulled. We had more, but, the Oilers had the best chance (we had the 2nd best chance with 7 though, although a 9 depending on the styling can be equal to a 7)

 

[ULF_55]

We're not where near ready to be making these "We need size on our team!" comments.

What we need is talent and more talent, size or not.

Detroit has 1 player over 6' in their top 6 and he's a grinder, by the way... they seem to be doing just fine? Tampa Bay's tallest player in their top 6 is Stamkos at a whopping 6'1", a full 2 inches on Nylander and Marner, with smurfs like Johnson, Kucherov and Callahan in the midst of this huge top 6 lineup.

I did say BPA, and we can be honest, there is more art than science in drafting and hard to call the scoring leader of the OHL as lacking skill.

There is this bias that smaller players are more skilled, see it all the time.

Detroit is a good team now, but they aren't a Cup contender.

 

[SprDaVE]

I did say BPA, and we can be honest, there is more art than science in drafting and hard to call the scoring leader of the OHL as lacking skill.

There is this bias that smaller players are more skilled, see it all the time.

Detroit is a good team now, but they aren't a Cup contender.

You clearly said "no smurfs" which is not BPA.

I didn't say anything about the eligible draftee's. I was just in awe that some people still have the line of thinking of drafting average sized players, or slightly below average, is going to be detrimental to our potential success in a few years. Strome is a great talent and Marner is just as good, if not better in many ways.

Tampa Bay is definitely a cup contender and are built on average/sub-average sized players. Not to say that size isn't important but clearly not a factor in their decision making.

 

[ULF_55]

You clearly said "no smurfs" which is not BPA.

I didn't say anything about the eligible draftee's. I was just in awe that some people still have the line of thinking of drafting average sized players, or slightly below average, is going to be detrimental to our potential success in a few years. Strome is a great talent and Marner is just as good, if not better in many ways.

Tampa Bay is definitely a cup contender and are built on average/sub-average sized players. Not to say that size isn't important but clearly not a factor in their decision making.

How many teams win the Cup with an all smurf top 6?

Bergeron 6'2"
Toews 6'2"
Hossa 6'1"
Carter 6'4"
Malkin 6'2"
Kopitar 6'3"

Of course if the Leafs could add a multiple Norris winner into their line-up ... Lidstrom.

 

[coachbob]

All McDavid has to do is tell the Oilers that when he's a UFA he is going to Toronto. He will play his heart out for the Oilers in the meantime, but he will be gone at the first opportunity. This allows Edmonton to decide to keep him for 7 years and hopefully win a cup somewhere in there, or they can trade him and gain assets before they lose him.

Also, what would be nice is that if Toronto offers him an outlandish offersheet that takes him to his first UFA year. If Edmonton decides to match, then they could be screwed because of the cap and will have to trade players to keep McDavid. If they do that, then McDavid walks in his UFA year and Edmonton is back to square one. Or they let us have him at that high price and we get him 4 years earlier and then extend him. That's how you screw over Edmonton...

A man can dream, right?

 

[SprDaVE]

How many teams win the Cup with an all smurf top 6?

Bergeron 6'2"
Toews 6'2"
Hossa 6'1"
Carter 6'4"
Malkin 6'2"
Kopitar 6'3"

Of course if the Leafs could add a multiple Norris winner into their line-up ... Lidstrom.

Where are the Kings and the Bruins this year? Mmmm. Huge players everywhere in the lineup but something missing... mmm...

I guess you need the best of both words. You need depth of every kind.

What you cannot deny is the most important thing in a winner, it's skill. All the players you have listed have an incredible amount of skill and their teammates, tall or not, are incredibly skilled as well.

I can list many teams that have an abundance of size in their top 6 and can't win for crap. San Jose comes to mind. Philly comes to mind. Washington comes to mind.

My point is that a few teams have shown that you don't need a big top 6 to be competitive in this league. You need depth and skill at every position. Saying we don't want too many smurfs is just backwards thinking.

 

[Banic]

Or Marner or Hanifin



quite frankly, we should let it go.

Burke did what he did - let it go. move on
Rask was traded - fine. that was ages ago - let it go and move on
the kessel trade was what it was, we should move on, and let it go.

you can go it's no one's right to point it out, but truthfully - what good does it do anyone to live in the past? it gets debated over and over because people keep bring it up. if people stopped - it wouldn't be a hot button topic, now would it, right?

I am more curious what people expect the League to do to give the Leafs some perks? Should we have extra draft picks? should we get a luxury tax while others have none? should we have first dibs on key RFAs and not have to pay the offer-sheet cost?

the only thing that's going to make the Leafs a contender and healthy are the Leafs. and it's going to take a lot of hard work, and making hay while the sun is shining wherever we can find that sun.

we have the 4th overall pick, in a draft class where anyone in the top five would have been #1. to me that's pretty damned good in itself.

For the record I don't agree with the writer, just that it is a valid opinion. Also maybe people should let it go (and they absolutely should). But this is a discussion board, and that is a valid discussion. Likewise, if people don't like a specific topic they don't need to click the thread.

 

[hfman]

A writer from sportsnet saying that the NHL should have fixed the draft... Sportsnet really is something else, how did that get approved to be posted? That's not journalism, that's whining and asking for a handout. Sure we've bankrolled the league, but asking to fix the draft due to that is such an immature thing to say. What right minded adult wants to ruin the integrity of the game so we can have undeserved success? What a joke.

Rogers owns sportsnet. And sportsnet is very similar to the Toronto Sun these days. Bottom-of-the-barrel trash that panders to your everyday simpleton.

And to think... these are the guys who are running with the NHL TV rights for another 11 years.

Wow, how hockey has changed for the worse this year - and it's just getting started.

 

[achtungbaby]

All McDavid has to do is tell the Oilers that when he's a UFA he is going to Toronto. He will play his heart out for the Oilers in the meantime, but he will be gone at the first opportunity. This allows Edmonton to decide to keep him for 7 years and hopefully win a cup somewhere in there, or they can trade him and gain assets before they lose him.

Also, what would be nice is that if Toronto offers him an outlandish offersheet that takes him to his first UFA year. If Edmonton decides to match, then they could be screwed because of the cap and will have to trade players to keep McDavid. If they do that, then McDavid walks in his UFA year and Edmonton is back to square one. Or they let us have him at that high price and we get him 4 years earlier and then extend him. That's how you screw over Edmonton...

A man can dream, right?

So McDavid at an outrageous price screws over Edmonton but wouldn't screw over us?

 

[ULF_55]

My point is that a few teams have shown that you don't need a big top 6 to be competitive in this league. You need depth and skill at every position. Saying we don't want too many smurfs is just backwards thinking.

Yes, and I'd rather have big skilled players than small skilled players.

And yes, I'd rather have the smaller Saad over the larger Biggs or the smaller more skilled Kadri.

 

[Budsfan]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-should-have-thrown-the-maple-leafs-a-mcbone/

I was reading a Jeff Blair column he wrote on Sportsnet and he says the NHL should have made sure the Leafs won the draft lottery and select Connor McDavid and he here is some of what he says.

Folks around the rest of the country won’t like hearing this, but the Maple Leafs have bankrolled the NHL for a long time. They were printing money while other Canadian franchises were on financial life-support, or wringing their hands over weak Canadian currency. It would have been nice to get a McBone thrown in their direction, you know? And you’d think that Bettman’s background in the NBA would have taught him a thing or two about the strategic value of, um, “directing†generational players. Remember how Patrick Ewing ended up with the New York Knicks in 1985 (the frozen or creased envelope conspiracy)? Remember how the Cleveland Cavaliers went from fourth to first in the 2011 draft lottery (hmm … don’t the Leafs have the fourth pick?) after losing LeBron James? Or how about 2008, when Chicago native Derrick Rose ended up with the Bulls when that team, in dire need of a star after the post-Michael Jordan years, cashed in on a 1.5 per cent pre-lottery chance of getting the first pick overall? Coincidence? Yeah, right. Professional sports is about entertainment and marketing and money and TV and such. Fairness sometimes sucks. Connor McDavid should be a Maple Leaf, and everyone knows it – including McDavid himself.

I don't totally agree, or disagree with this point of view however as he has stated, it has happened in other sports and in hockey too for that matter.

The question I have will Toronto Fans keep supporting a losing team and thus the entire league through transfer payments, fairness would be a level playing field, where game and seating prices would be the same across league and those franchises not making the cut, would either be moved to a city and venue that supports hockey, or closed-out and their players used in a dispersal draft.

The way it stands now, we support teams that couldn't care less about hockey and we pay outrageous prices, to watch a team that is so bad, as to be laughed at by fans and teams that deliberately tank, to get the best players but are supported by us while doing so.

Bettman wants to grow hockey in the U.S. in places like Las Vegas and Seattle, while ignoring hockey venues like Quebec and another team in the GTA.

Fixing the draft really doesn't make sense but neither does the financial implications for Leaf fans, to keep paying, so other teams can unfairly tank year after year, to get good players and we support them to do so.

 

[coachbob]

So McDavid at an outrageous price screws over Edmonton but wouldn't screw over us?

not if we shed phaneuf and kessel this year. They have eberle, hall, RNH, etc.

I guess the price wouldn't have to be outrageous, just high enough that it creates a problem for their organization. I'm sure there's a number that would work for us and hurt the Oilers. Obviously you'd have to wait 3 years now to see what that number might be.

Basically we'd pick high for the next three years and then add McDavid. It could work if the Leafs planned for this. If they continued their arrant spending, then yes it could screw us. If the leafs run this team properly we should be in a strong financial position to have that kind of cap space. And we should have drafted properly and have a slew of good young (and cheap) talent to surround McDavid with.

Obviously this idea is just fantasy and will never happen. I'm just a sore loser over the fact Edmonton got him. Would have rather almost anyone else in the lottery get him.

 

[ULF_55]

not if we shed phaneuf and kessel this year. They have eberle, hall, RNH, etc.

I guess the price wouldn't have to be outrageous, just high enough that it creates a problem for their organization. I'm sure there's a number that would work for us and hurt the Oilers. Obviously you'd have to wait 3 years now to see what that number might be.

Basically we'd pick high for the next three years and then add McDavid. It could work if the Leafs planned for this. If they continued their arrant spending, then yes it could screw us. If the leafs run this team properly we should be in a strong financial position to have that kind of cap space. And we should have drafted properly and have a slew of good young (and cheap) talent to surround McDavid with.

Obviously this idea is just fantasy and will never happen. I'm just a sore loser over the fact Edmonton got him. Would have rather almost anyone else in the lottery get him.

Funny, I would have put my likes at:
1. Leafs
2. Oilers
3. Montreal - for my wife

 

[hfman]

I don't totally agree, or disagree with this point of view however as he has stated, it has happened in other sports and in hockey too for that matter.

The question I have will Toronto Fans keep supporting a losing team and thus the entire league through transfer payments, fairness would be a level playing field, where game and seating prices would be the same across league and those franchises not making the cut, would either be moved to a city and venue that supports hockey, or closed-out and their players used in a dispersal draft.

The way it stands now, we support teams that couldn't care less about hockey and we pay outrageous prices, to watch a team that is so bad, as to be laughed at by fans and teams that deliberately tank, to get the best players but are supported by us while doing so.

Bettman wants to grow hockey in the U.S. in places like Las Vegas and Seattle, while ignoring hockey venues like Quebec and another team in the GTA.

Fixing the draft really doesn't make sense but neither does the financial implications for Leaf fans, to keep paying, so other teams can unfairly tank year after year, to get good players and we support them to do so.

sometimes fans just have to get a grip on and accept reality: the situation with the Leafs supporting other teams is very real, and very un-fair. But like I said, sometimes we have to realize that life isn't fair either, and that's just the way it is. We don't have to like it. But that's what it is. Fans in Toronto pay the highest prices for the lowest product. Fact. The NHL extracts boatloads of cash from the Leafs so they can give it to other teams and keep them in business, all while the Leaf on-ice teams suffer a slow death from it. Is that @ss-backwards? You bet. Insanely "un-far"? For sure. But- that's what it is. So that leaves you with your own personal choice: continue to watch the Leafs through all the injustice, or- re-direct your attention to other hobbies/interests in life that make you happy and abandon watching this pathetic hockey team. Move on and leave it behind you. What's your choice?

 

[fahad203]

That's BS. We don't need anyone to throw us a bone. What we need is to make better decisions and be patient

Capitals have Ovechkin, another generational player. That hasn't guaranteed them a cup. A team still needs goaltending, defense and group of plumbers. Look at the Calgary and Islanders. Those are the model we should follow.

If anyone needs any bone is Arizona. Nothing worse than a team that has no money, doesn't have security and doesn't play in a hockey hot bed. We are very fortunate to have all those. Who else can take on a Clarkson contract and laugh it off by singing a cheque for player who is not going to play for us. Hockey gods have always thrown us plenty of bones

 

[Erndog]

Blair calls Noah Hanifin a "dime a dozen college dman"

 

[CHRoNiCWiLL]

That's BS. We don't need anyone to throw us a bone. What we need is to make better decisions and be patient

Capitals have Ovechkin, another generational player. That hasn't guaranteed them a cup. A team still needs goaltending, defense and group of plumbers. Look at the Calgary and Islanders. Those are the model we should follow.

If anyone needs any bone is Arizona. Nothing worse than a team that has no money, doesn't have security and doesn't play in a hockey hot bed. We are very fortunate to have all those. Who else can take on a Clarkson contract and laugh it off by singing a cheque for player who is not going to play for us. Hockey gods have always thrown us plenty of bones

There are fans that want to see the Leafs be successful and win the cup, and there are fans that want to see the Toronto finally have a player they can call "best" in the league.

I don't think we have had one of these McJesus type players on any of the Toronto sports teams for decades now.

 

[ACC1224]

I've heard dumber ideas but not for a long time.

 

[Budsfan]

sometimes fans just have to get a grip on and accept reality: the situation with the Leafs supporting other teams is very real, and very un-fair. But like I said, sometimes we have to realize that life isn't fair either, and that's just the way it is. We don't have to like it. But that's what it is. Fans in Toronto pay the highest prices for the lowest product. Fact. The NHL extracts boatloads of cash from the Leafs so they can give it to other teams and keep them in business, all while the Leaf on-ice teams suffer a slow death from it. Is that @ss-backwards? You bet. Insanely "un-far"? For sure. But- that's what it is. So that leaves you with your own personal choice: continue to watch the Leafs through all the injustice, or- re-direct your attention to other hobbies/interests in life that make you happy and abandon watching this pathetic hockey team. Move on and leave it behind you. What's your choice?

While all you have stated is quite true, life isn't fair and as an older person, I can allude to quite a few additional things as well however I have been a Leaf fan as long as I can remember and without stating my age, I can remember many Leaf Stanley Cup wins, so a very long time Leaf fan.

Back in that era a 6 team league was the entire venue however if one team was losing money the other teams wouldn't just give them money they would buy their best players and it was up to each team to be finacially solvent, if they weren't too bad their problem.

Fairness is a level playing field and as a long time Leaf fan, I'm not going to move on because the Leafs are bad and we have seen this many times over the years but can you see Ballard giving money to another team to help them out, well if you do, you would be dreaming.

I would hope though that the empty seats at the ACC in the final games of this past season and the loss of TV viewers should be a wake-up call and there should be a demand that it change, will it, probably not but hope springs eternal.

 

[Bluelines]

Kinda goes against everything the NHL has done in the last 20 years to establish an even playing ground.

I do agree that teams who have revenue shared significant dollars should get some sort of carrot like cap relief or maybe an extra draft pick or 2 or an extra voting seat at the BOG meetings.

The people who invest money into the Leafs had to pay significantly more than the people who invested in a team like Phoenix, therefore the Toronto investors have taken on more risk, to add a big daddy tax like revenue sharing without giving the Leafs a carrot is IMO not providing a completely level playing field for all owners.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

should of thrown arizona a bone. How many people hundreds of millions of dollars has been lost there?

 

[Bluelines]

All McDavid has to do is tell the Oilers that when he's a UFA he is going to Toronto. He will play his heart out for the Oilers in the meantime, but he will be gone at the first opportunity. This allows Edmonton to decide to keep him for 7 years and hopefully win a cup somewhere in there, or they can trade him and gain assets before they lose him.

Also, what would be nice is that if Toronto offers him an outlandish offersheet that takes him to his first UFA year. If Edmonton decides to match, then they could be screwed because of the cap and will have to trade players to keep McDavid. If they do that, then McDavid walks in his UFA year and Edmonton is back to square one. Or they let us have him at that high price and we get him 4 years earlier and then extend him. That's how you screw over Edmonton...

A man can dream, right?

or he can tell the Oil he's not reporting. I think the player has to wait 2 years, don't sign with the Oil then he becomes a UFA... maybe the rules have changed but there is the hold your breath till you turn blue option

 

[Budsfan]

should of thrown arizona a bone. How many people hundreds of millions of dollars has been lost there?

A lot of that money comes from Toronto, if they are losing a lot of money, they should be moved to a better hockey venue, or just closed out and their players would go into a disperal draft.

Why do we keep throwing good money, to support a team that has never been a money making franchise.

 

[cremona]

sometimes fans just have to get a grip on and accept reality: the situation with the Leafs supporting other teams is very real, and very un-fair. But like I said, sometimes we have to realize that life isn't fair either, and that's just the way it is. We don't have to like it. But that's what it is. Fans in Toronto pay the highest prices for the lowest product. Fact. The NHL extracts boatloads of cash from the Leafs so they can give it to other teams and keep them in business, all while the Leaf on-ice teams suffer a slow death from it. Is that @ss-backwards? You bet. Insanely "un-far"? For sure. But- that's what it is. So that leaves you with your own personal choice: continue to watch the Leafs through all the injustice, or- re-direct your attention to other hobbies/interests in life that make you happy and abandon watching this pathetic hockey team. Move on and leave it behind you. What's your choice?

Yes. Life is not fair. However this part of life is business. Business is always drawn up to benefit both parties. The Leafs are not benefiting from their investment.