NHL - killer of international hockey

[Siberian]

I was reading this article http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/3731594.stm and I thought wow, Wayne Rooney, the hottest commodity in the football (ok, americans call it soccer) is going to go to Azerbaijan to play for team England. So Manchester United lets him go and play against these guys? What about the money they spent on him and the money they can potentially make with Rooney in the line-up? What if one of the crazy Azerbaijani decided to take a good kick on Rooney's knee and end his career? How ugly would that be? But then I thought I must have followed NHL and other North American leagues too much because in Europe they do not bother too much with questions like that.

Yes, all professional North American leagues have great athletes but the leagues kill players spirit to play the game just for the sake of it. Seeing Rooney playing for England against Azerbaijan is more probable than seeing Fedorov playing for team Russia against Austria where Rooney is already 10 times the star Fedorov is and hockey Austria is 10 times better than football Azerbaijan.

Now we even are not sure if we will see the best hockey players in the Olympics and it is all because of the league that only cares about itself. NHL is killing international hockey.

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[f1nn]

true... but it's all about the money... the NHL is a business and you have to maximize with your oppurtunities

 

[TORRUS]

true... but it's all about the money... the NHL is a business and you have to maximize with your oppurtunities

Yes, but what about the money in european football which is much bigger then the money in NHL. Like Manchester wouldn't lose a lot with Rooney being injured? Sorry, but much more then an NHL team after losing Iginla, Sakic, Kovalchuk, Jagr, or Fedorov. The NHL is a business, but European football is even much bigger...

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

Football in europe isn't independent of the football unions.
The English Premiership is subordinate to the FA (England) and the FA is subordinate to UEFA (europe) which is subordinate to FIFA (world).

While in hockey, the NHL isn't under anyones choke as its on its own two feet. It'd be comparable if the NHL was under Hockey Canada/USA and those two would be properly under the IIHF. But in hockey, the IIHF doesn't seem to run anything else than the various world championships..

 

[TORRUS]

Football in europe isn't independent of the football unions.
The English Premiership is subordinate to the FA (England) and the FA is subordinate to UEFA (europe) which is subordinate to FIFA (world).

While in hockey, the NHL isn't under anyones choke as its on its own two feet. It'd be comparable if the NHL was under Hockey Canada/USA and those two would be properly under the IIHF. But in hockey, the IIHF doesn't seem to run anything else than the various world championships..

OK, but what does for example Roman Abramovic has to do with FA, UEFA and FIFA? He invested millions in his club and he will lose a lot if one of his top players gets injured. The club will lose no matter to whom are they subordinated to.

 

[Roughneck]

The Olympics fall right into the middle of the NHL season, in football, international games are usually scheduled around league games. Many times, a manager may sit a player anyways (say if Man U were going to play their next game against a Div 3 Club in the Worthington Cup). They see the risk of him getting injured no greater than if he got injured in the Worthless Cup game. The World Cup of Soccer is scheduled in the football off-season, if it were in the middle of the Champions League, you better believe teams would be getting mad. In fact, most teams don't like sending players to seemingly useless games but as Raimo said, their hands are usually tied. Sometimes, if a club rejects a player leaving for international duty, he won't get called up again for a long, long time, which leads to a disgruntled player who has always dreamed of playing for his country.

If the Olympis were scheduled at the same time as the World Cup was, I wouldn't see this as an issue. But asking players to go from a far more compressed and hectic schedule than those in European football, flying around the world, playing in a condenssed and hectic international tournament, flying back and immediately going back to the NHL schedule puts them at a far greater risk of getting injured than the likes of Wayne Rooney who's team could rest him without losing a step.

Yes the NHL and NHLPA are making international hockey more difficult, no argument there. I'd say the game's popularity internationally in the lesser hockey countries would grow considerably if the NHLPA opened up and showcased its players over the world more, but the circumstances in hockey and soccer are much different.

 

[wilka91*]

This thread is exactly what I told everyone at LetsGoWings.com a week ago!

 

[wilka91*]

If the Olympis were scheduled at the same time as the World Cup was, I wouldn't see this as an issue. But asking players to go from a far more compressed and hectic schedule than those in European football, flying around the world, playing in a condenssed and hectic international tournament, flying back and immediately going back to the NHL schedule puts them at a far greater risk of getting injured than the likes of Wayne Rooney who's team could rest him without losing a step.

Yes the NHL and NHLPA are making international hockey more difficult, no argument there. I'd say the game's popularity internationally in the lesser hockey countries would grow considerably if the NHLPA opened up and showcased its players over the world more, but the circumstances in hockey and soccer are much different.

You know what? Every single league in the World except of course the NHL (and some of its minors) ends just before the World Championships! It has always worked that way, but the NHL just won't care!

 

[Doomsday Device]

You know what? Every single league in the World except of course the NHL (and some of its minors) ends just before the World Championships! It has always worked that way, but the NHL just won't care!

So, what do you want them to do? Start the season in August, so the World Championships become more legitimate.

The NHL has had playoff games going into May for 40 years now. If the IIHF was really interested in making this a true best on best tournament, they have had plenty of time to do something about it.

 

[stv11]

The NHL has had playoff games going into May for 40 years now. If the IIHF was really interested in making this a true best on best tournament, they have had plenty of time to do something about it.

The IIHF is really interested, but they can't hold their tournaments in the summer for obvious reasons. The only possible solution would be to have the NHL schedule starting one month earlier, and the world championnships should be held in late may, but it would still be before the end of the playoffs.

 

[jekoh]

The Olympics fall right into the middle of the NHL season, in football, international games are usually scheduled around league games. (...) The World Cup of Soccer is scheduled in the football off-season, if it were in the middle of the Champions League, you better believe teams would be getting mad.

The football World Cup is actually in the middle of the Russian season, the Swedish season, the Norwegian season, the Japanese seaon amongst others.

 

[wilka91*]

So, what do you want them to do? Start the season in August, so the World Championships become more legitimate.

The NHL has had playoff games going into May for 40 years now. If the IIHF was really interested in making this a true best on best tournament, they have had plenty of time to do something about it.

I don't know, but the Russian Superleague has 60 regular season games, and then 3 playoffs rounds (best-of-5), and that doesn't prevent them from playing in 3 stages of the Eurotour of Hockey, and the World Championships. So there must be some kind of solution ...

First of all I would've shortened the regular season to 70 games (and I think the owners already want that), then start the season a month earlier, around the 10th of September, and either reduce the first 2 rounds of the playoffs to best-of-5 series or just cancel the 1st round allowing 8 teams into the playoffs.

The season would end in mid to late April.

Finally push back the start of the World Championships to early May.

 

[TORRUS]

First of all I would've shortened the regular season to 70 games (and I think the owners already want that), then start the season a month earlier, around the 10th of September, and either reduce the first 2 rounds of the playoffs to best-of-5 series or just cancel the 1st round allowing 8 teams into the playoffs.

The season would end in mid to late April.

... you forgot to mention reducing the number of the teams. 30 is too much!
Anyway, sounds nice, but except maybe 70 games, nothing else won't be accepted by NHL. They would lose a lot of money, which is the only thing they care about.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

The Olympics fall right into the middle of the NHL season, in football, international games are usually scheduled around league games. Many times, a manager may sit a player anyways (say if Man U were going to play their next game against a Div 3 Club in the Worthington Cup). They see the risk of him getting injured no greater than if he got injured in the Worthless Cup game. The World Cup of Soccer is scheduled in the football off-season, if it were in the middle of the Champions League, you better believe teams would be getting mad. In fact, most teams don't like sending players to seemingly useless games but as Raimo said, their hands are usually tied. Sometimes, if a club rejects a player leaving for international duty, he won't get called up again for a long, long time, which leads to a disgruntled player who has always dreamed of playing for his country.

If the Olympis were scheduled at the same time as the World Cup was, I wouldn't see this as an issue. But asking players to go from a far more compressed and hectic schedule than those in European football, flying around the world, playing in a condenssed and hectic international tournament, flying back and immediately going back to the NHL schedule puts them at a far greater risk of getting injured than the likes of Wayne Rooney who's team could rest him without losing a step.

Yes the NHL and NHLPA are making international hockey more difficult, no argument there. I'd say the game's popularity internationally in the lesser hockey countries would grow considerably if the NHLPA opened up and showcased its players over the world more, but the circumstances in hockey and soccer are much different.

Yeah, that's the risk an owner like Abrahamovich takes, his star player get called up by England and gets injured, tough cookies.. business risk of being in the football industry.
Clubs do moan and complain about international callups, but basically theres nothing to do and they even have to release them for a few friendlies, 3 i think..
That's why the best teams usually have quite a large roster of players, and as is traditional in football, the games the stars are away from is usually a good time to give the youngsters a run, experience is what they need in any case.

But a few years ago, FC Barcelona iirc forfeitted a Spanish Cup game becuase they had all but 7 of their roster called up for international games!!

Besides, the world championships have always been a tournament for players knocked out of the Stanley Cup run already, and the only tournaments which get all players are the Olympics and the World Cup.

 

[wilka91*]

I was thinking about that too.

Actually here's my own NHL :

2 conferences
4 divisions
24 teams

each team will face its 11 conference rivals 4 times = 44 games
each team will face the other conference's 12 teams 2 times = 24 games

68 games spread out from September to late February :

Regular season starts on September 10th, ends on February 25th

- games played by each team per month :
September : 8
October : 13
November : 13
December : 12
January : 12
February : 10

Playoffs start on March 1st

Playoffs format : 8 teams, 3 rounds, all series are best-of-7

Hypothetical game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals is played on April 20th.

 

[Doomsday Device]

I was thinking about that too.

Actually here's my own NHL :

2 conferences
4 divisions
24 teams

each team will face its 11 conference rivals 4 times = 44 games
each team will face the other conference's 12 teams 2 times = 24 games

68 games spread out from September to late February :

Regular season starts on September 10th, ends on February 25th

- games played by each team per month :
September : 8
October : 13
November : 13
December : 12
January : 12
February : 10

Playoffs start on March 1st

Playoffs format : 8 teams, 3 rounds, all series are best-of-7

Hypothetical game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals is played on April 20th.

October is the logical time to start the NHL season. It's after the NFL starts and before the NBA. If they started is September they would be clashing with the beginning of the NFL season, which wouldn't be good for numbers. It won't happen.

 

[wilka91*]

If they started is September they would be clashing with the beginning of the NFL season

That's BS because there's like 1 day of football every week. The NHL could just limit the number of games played on Sunday, and that's all.

 

[Roughneck]

This seems like alot of changes just to take part in an international tournament few in North America care about anyway. Why all the changes? Why not just move the World Championships back if its such a big deal?

 

[Doomsday Device]

That's BS because there's like 1 day of football every week. The NHL could just limit the number of games played on Sunday, and that's all.

Doesn't matter, the hype and media attention surrounding the start of the NFL season is enormous. Whaterver little heed is paid to the beginning of the NHL season normally would diminish even more.

 

[stv11]

This seems like alot of changes just to take part in an international tournament few in North America care about anyway. Why all the changes? Why not just move the World Championships back if its such a big deal?

There's traditionally no hockey in june in Europe, so moving the World Championships back would lead to a lack of interest from casual fans, who wouldn't watch hockey played later than early may.

And about starting the NHL season a month earlier, it sure would lead to a clash with the start of the NFL season, but is early season media coverage that important ? Avoiding a clash between the NHL and NBA playoffs seems more important to me. Wouldn't it be possible to held the NHL playoff between the college basketball and NBA playoffs ?

 

[wilka91*]

This seems like alot of changes just to take part in an international tournament few in North America care about anyway.

That's what I was talking about. The NHL and basically almost all North Americans are extremely selfish when it comes to hockey, so because Canada/US don't want to send the best NHLers to the World Champs, the other 10 countries represented in the NHL will have to live it, no matter what!

 

[Diaboli]

Football in europe isn't independent of the football unions.
The English Premiership is subordinate to the FA (England) and the FA is subordinate to UEFA (europe) which is subordinate to FIFA (world).

While in hockey, the NHL isn't under anyones choke as its on its own two feet. It'd be comparable if the NHL was under Hockey Canada/USA and those two would be properly under the IIHF. But in hockey, the IIHF doesn't seem to run anything else than the various world championships..

UEFA isn't subordinate to FIFA. They are separate, working on the same game.

BTW. Iginla makes more money than Rooney.

 

[ZDogg]

The NHL and basically almost all North Americans are extremely selfish when it comes to hockey, so because Canada/US don't want to send the best NHLers to the World Champs, the other 10 countries represented in the NHL will have to live it, no matter what!

Well if the World Championships and the NHL Playoffs did not overlap then I am sure they would be held in North America at least every second year. Are you willing to give up more hockey in Europe?? You will end up watching in the middle of the night and not being able to attend games. I think the NHL system is fine, if anything I would shorten the regular season by 10 games or the exhibition season by a week.

 

[Roughneck]

UEFA isn't subordinate to FIFA. They are separate, working on the same game.

BTW. Iginla makes more money than Rooney.

Iginla is also about 10 years older than Rooney. I bet RVN makes more than Rooney does as well.

 

[Ego]

I think the biggest problem is in player transfers between Europe and NHL. ManU paid around 30 million GBP for Rooney. When Ovechkin will move to NHL, Dinamo Moscow will get around 200 000 USD.
That is a big problem for Europeam teams. They invest thousand to player`s development and they won`t even get it back.
Europe vs. CHL is another huge problem.