Rumor: NHL GM's to look at discussing LTIR loophole for playoffs
- Thread starter Malagahawks
- Start date
DisgruntledHawkFan
Blackhawk Down
Time to let guys when they have career ending injuries just retire with the money left and the cap comes off.
Who and how "career ending" is defined and determined is the same issue, different day
How ironic that the Seabrook contract may provide a better return for us in the Hagel trade. Changes to the LTIR rules will make Seabs contract much harder to manipulate into cap circumvention making it harder for the Lightning to win....hopefully meaning higher fist round draft picks to the Hawk. Who knew Stunley was such a genius giving Seabs that ridiculous contract, then got Tampa to take it, knowing his successor would trade for multiple Tampa first rounders before the LTIR rules get modified.
TheFridge
Registered User
- Mar 20, 2022
- 1,269
- 1,245
That's not what the proposed rule change is doing as far as I understand it. Seabrook is going to stay on LTIR for the rest of his contract. His contract won't matter. The loophole they're trying to get rid of is ensuring the team you ice during the playoffs is cap compliant. So if you have a 10.5M player get hurt before the TDL and then you add a 10.5M player to your roster, your roster needs to be cap compliant with both players in the lineup. Whereas right now, the player that was hurt doesn't come back until the playoffs start when the cap is no longer in play, thereby icing a team that would not have been cap compliant if the cap was in effect.
Gord Miller had a good thread on it earlier today or yesterday. Basically, you have an active roster of 18-23 skaters during the regular season that make up your cap spending. His suggestion is that in the playoffs, you have 20 players designated as active players (with the rest being black aces/expanded playoff rosters) and that active group of 20 players needs to be cap compliant. If a player comes back from LTIR and added back to the active playoff roster, the team will need to be cap compliant to do so.
CallMeShaft
Calder Bedard Fan
- Apr 14, 2014
- 15,885
- 21,546
As much as we benefited off of this in 2015, removing this loophole would certainly help this team for the near future.
We have cap space and are willing to take on bad contracts for good returns, and with this, cap space becomes even more of a premium.
We have cap space and are willing to take on bad contracts for good returns, and with this, cap space becomes even more of a premium.
I would let the samecsystem prevail EXCEOT if a playoff team brings back anyone for playoffs who was in LTIR to the extent that they exceed the cap by adding him back in for playoffs,then such teams that are in that situation must pay a luxury tax commensurate by how much they saved in regular season by using LTIR and exceeding the cap legalkyvtgatcway.
For example let us say a playoff team used $4million in excess of cap by using LTIR and brings back that player into their lineup for playoffs.. Tgey then shoukd paycacluxury tax divided equally among all teams who did not exceed the cap even if using LTIR in regular season.
Spouse there were 20 teams who did not exceed cao even using LTIR in regular season...
Thise 20 teams should get equal share of the luxury tax pot for use next season by which amount they may use to exceed cap.
So thise 20 teams get to use a higher cap than the 10 teams using LTIR who exceeded their cap AND THEN brought back in a pkayervonLTIR for playoffs when tgere is no cap anymore.
Such a system would long term injured lplayers onLYIR still to come back into playoff teams for playoffs but would put thise playoff teams who pay a luxury tax at a disadvantage cao-wise for next sesson...The luxuryvtax would dubkevifc2 players on LTIrcare brought back in for playoffs.
Triple is 3 are brought back in...so it gets too expensive to cheat much using this loophole we have now.
So if tge official NHL cap was say $83 million for next season then if 10 playoff teansxalk exceeded the cap usiing LTIR in regularxsesdon and the average excess was say $3 million over percteam (on average) then a total of $30 million woukd go into a kitty for use by the 22 other teams to exceed their caps by $30million÷22
= an extra $1,363,636.million each ...so their cap would be a max. Of $84,363,636 wheras the teams who paid luxury tax can only spend to a max o a cao of $83 million each in this example..
The teans getting extra cao room could also bank their cap luxury tax portion received to soebdvit anytime within next 5 years or maybe 7 years depending on the length they agree to if such a luxury tax system came in regarding LTIR use.
Thisxwoujdvnit bexa credit but actual cash paid byvtgecexceedibgvteamscand used atcsonevpiunt to cover the extra costs of goibg over the cao by teams finalkybusibg their extra cap dollars when they see bestvtinevtobdo it.
Now you will say that certain always below cao teanscwill never go to the cap..butcwhatbifvtgeyvsuffervforvyears at tge bothom but eventually hit a golden oeriodcwhen tryingvto win a Cuo iscfrasibkecifbonly they spent to and loaded up by exceeding thevleagueccao..they coukdvuse their allotment built up in the luxury tax receiver pit to finance these "alk in" tooup expenditures.
Now you can tweak thus luxuryvtax concept differently. But I think itis conceptually a better way to provide legit contenders with relief when injuries occur but allow them to bring back pkayersxwho by playoff time are healthy again and can help the team ona Cuo playoff run...they just have to pay for the luxury of bringing that guy or guys back in.
Does this luxury tax idea Ihavr proped have any merit?
Your opinions?
For example let us say a playoff team used $4million in excess of cap by using LTIR and brings back that player into their lineup for playoffs.. Tgey then shoukd paycacluxury tax divided equally among all teams who did not exceed the cap even if using LTIR in regular season.
Spouse there were 20 teams who did not exceed cao even using LTIR in regular season...
Thise 20 teams should get equal share of the luxury tax pot for use next season by which amount they may use to exceed cap.
So thise 20 teams get to use a higher cap than the 10 teams using LTIR who exceeded their cap AND THEN brought back in a pkayervonLTIR for playoffs when tgere is no cap anymore.
Such a system would long term injured lplayers onLYIR still to come back into playoff teams for playoffs but would put thise playoff teams who pay a luxury tax at a disadvantage cao-wise for next sesson...The luxuryvtax would dubkevifc2 players on LTIrcare brought back in for playoffs.
Triple is 3 are brought back in...so it gets too expensive to cheat much using this loophole we have now.
So if tge official NHL cap was say $83 million for next season then if 10 playoff teansxalk exceeded the cap usiing LTIR in regularxsesdon and the average excess was say $3 million over percteam (on average) then a total of $30 million woukd go into a kitty for use by the 22 other teams to exceed their caps by $30million÷22
= an extra $1,363,636.million each ...so their cap would be a max. Of $84,363,636 wheras the teams who paid luxury tax can only spend to a max o a cao of $83 million each in this example..
The teans getting extra cao room could also bank their cap luxury tax portion received to soebdvit anytime within next 5 years or maybe 7 years depending on the length they agree to if such a luxury tax system came in regarding LTIR use.
Thisxwoujdvnit bexa credit but actual cash paid byvtgecexceedibgvteamscand used atcsonevpiunt to cover the extra costs of goibg over the cao by teams finalkybusibg their extra cap dollars when they see bestvtinevtobdo it.
Now you will say that certain always below cao teanscwill never go to the cap..butcwhatbifvtgeyvsuffervforvyears at tge bothom but eventually hit a golden oeriodcwhen tryingvto win a Cuo iscfrasibkecifbonly they spent to and loaded up by exceeding thevleagueccao..they coukdvuse their allotment built up in the luxury tax receiver pit to finance these "alk in" tooup expenditures.
Now you can tweak thus luxuryvtax concept differently. But I think itis conceptually a better way to provide legit contenders with relief when injuries occur but allow them to bring back pkayersxwho by playoff time are healthy again and can help the team ona Cuo playoff run...they just have to pay for the luxury of bringing that guy or guys back in.
Does this luxury tax idea Ihavr proped have any merit?
Your opinions?
Putt Pirate
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2015
- 5,268
- 3,009
Technically I don't understand what complaint small market or badly managed teams have. In addition, they apparently don't like that good teams are competing with them for LTIR contracts because thats how some of the badly managed/small market teams have met the cap floor.
The players are paid for their regular season service. The salary cap controls SALARIES DURING THE REGULAR SEASON ALREADY, and a team that temporarily benefits will have to be cap compliant by the first day of the next season. If a player (typically with term) is put on LTIR he doesn't play, and the team does not benefit from his skill. On the other hand, if a skilled player is traded at the deadline (typically on an expiring contract), he isn't paid during the playoffs by his new team either. Since players are literally not paid for their service during the playoffs, this could be solved by e.g., limiting teams with LTIR protection to only trade for players on expiring contracts. But that isn't the issue here obviously. The LTIR system is probably viewed by some as contributing to an increase in player compensation and must be fought because, e.g., guys like Seabrook won't retire.
In a sense, the current LTIR system works as a small residual bonus/protection to good teams and skilled players whose contracts are typically expiring. It allows a team to sell a bad contract to another team, and allows good players to go to another team and play for a championship. The owners should either leave the system as is and normalize it (by, e.g., not tying it to injuries and expanding it to underperforming veterans, or not allowing basement teams to meet the cap floor with LTIR contracts), or pay the players in some way for a benefit they would lose. I kinda like how the better teams have transacted in LTIR contracts because IT BENEFITS WELL MANAGED TEAMS AND GOOD PLAYERS WHO EITHER BECOME INJURED/OLD AND CAN'T PLAY OR ARE ON AN EXPIRING CONTRACT).
The players are paid for their regular season service. The salary cap controls SALARIES DURING THE REGULAR SEASON ALREADY, and a team that temporarily benefits will have to be cap compliant by the first day of the next season. If a player (typically with term) is put on LTIR he doesn't play, and the team does not benefit from his skill. On the other hand, if a skilled player is traded at the deadline (typically on an expiring contract), he isn't paid during the playoffs by his new team either. Since players are literally not paid for their service during the playoffs, this could be solved by e.g., limiting teams with LTIR protection to only trade for players on expiring contracts. But that isn't the issue here obviously. The LTIR system is probably viewed by some as contributing to an increase in player compensation and must be fought because, e.g., guys like Seabrook won't retire.
In a sense, the current LTIR system works as a small residual bonus/protection to good teams and skilled players whose contracts are typically expiring. It allows a team to sell a bad contract to another team, and allows good players to go to another team and play for a championship. The owners should either leave the system as is and normalize it (by, e.g., not tying it to injuries and expanding it to underperforming veterans, or not allowing basement teams to meet the cap floor with LTIR contracts), or pay the players in some way for a benefit they would lose. I kinda like how the better teams have transacted in LTIR contracts because IT BENEFITS WELL MANAGED TEAMS AND GOOD PLAYERS WHO EITHER BECOME INJURED/OLD AND CAN'T PLAY OR ARE ON AN EXPIRING CONTRACT).
Toews2Bickell
It's Showtime
- Nov 24, 2013
- 23,393
- 23,306
possible solution would be teams have to be cap compliant game 1 of playoffs, maybe the cap ceiling shouldnt just disappear for the playoffs, kind of like the idea of before each series you have to decide on your roster as eligible for that series and it resets every series, if you have too many injuries you can tap into your black aces, shouldnt be a problem, most guy play through them
MileHighHawksFan
When the going gets tough, Hawks fly together!
Sounds like vegas and anybody else that applies will be watched closely to make sure nobody is being held out longer than necessary.
