NHL Carolina to address AHL BOG in October about possible 33rd franchise

[GindyDraws]

Charlotte has been rumored to be for sale for years you would think Michael Khan would be receptive to an offer from Dundon, However I wouldn't be surprised if Charlotte is a money pit because of the lack of nearby opponents and Dundon isn't keen on adding the team to his portfolio.

Frankly, Charlotte would be much happier if they went down to the ECHL; not just for the finances but because it would be so much easier to schedule opponents in the area instead of constantly flying out all the time. I think Dundon would likely just pay the money to put the team in a hub market where they're closer to the action instead.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

32 AHL Thoughts: 'Where Do We Go From Here?' The Canes where scouting Baltimore.

 

[KevFu]

The NHL should just buy the entire AHL, with the money coming from the teams that don't own their affiliates.

And then the NHL can just make the AHL what makes the most sense for serving the purpose of the NHL.

A mix of "nearby markets" but also trials of markets that should be in the mix for NHL expansion.

 

[ponder719]

Troll option but fr I want this: Dundon buys Hartford from the Rangers and rebrands them the Hartford Whalers, the Rangers found a new team in Baltimore instead.

 

[GKJ]

32 AHL Thoughts: 'Where Do We Go From Here?' The Canes where scouting Baltimore.

Feel like Norfolk would make more sense. Also have to battle the Caps in that market. That said, I think Baltimore should be on the AHL level.

 

[KevFu]

The whole "putting a team that's where the NHL teams territorial rights" is a key part of why I think the NHL should just buy the AHL.

Like, putting a team in Baltimore hurts the Caps. If NHL Atlanta puts an AHL team in Charlotte, that hurts Carolina.

If the NHL owned the AHL, they could look at the list of non-NHL cities and basically match up the 32-36 with the "next 32-36" and first say "What's the perfect matchups?"

Teams without perfect matchups can go to the largest isolated cities who could be future expansion candidates. Like Oklahoma City, Virginia Beach, etc.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

The NHL should just buy the entire AHL, with the money coming from the teams that don't own their affiliates.

And then the NHL can just make the AHL what makes the most sense for serving the purpose of the NHL.

A mix of "nearby markets" but also trials of markets that should be in the mix for NHL expansion.

A lot of the independent AHL owners(Providence,Colorado,Lehigh Valley) are beholden to their parent clubs anyway simply because of how lucrative their affiliation's are. The only reason they would need to buy the AHL would be to force the Wolves hand, but that could potentially be solved by a majority vote to ban independents in any circumstance.

 

[GKJ]

The whole "putting a team that's where the NHL teams territorial rights" is a key part of why I think the NHL should just buy the AHL.

Like, putting a team in Baltimore hurts the Caps. If NHL Atlanta puts an AHL team in Charlotte, that hurts Carolina.

If the NHL owned the AHL, they could look at the list of non-NHL cities and basically match up the 32-36 with the "next 32-36" and first say "What's the perfect matchups?"

Teams without perfect matchups can go to the largest isolated cities who could be future expansion candidates. Like Oklahoma City, Virginia Beach, etc.

Don’t know why you’d purposely hurt your own markets though.

 

[GindyDraws]

The whole "putting a team that's where the NHL teams territorial rights" is a key part of why I think the NHL should just buy the AHL.

Like, putting a team in Baltimore hurts the Caps. If NHL Atlanta puts an AHL team in Charlotte, that hurts Carolina.

If the NHL owned the AHL, they could look at the list of non-NHL cities and basically match up the 32-36 with the "next 32-36" and first say "What's the perfect matchups?"

Teams without perfect matchups can go to the largest isolated cities who could be future expansion candidates. Like Oklahoma City, Virginia Beach, etc.

Well... The AHL HAD a team in OKC for years, see.

 

[KevFu]

Don’t know why you’d purposely hurt your own markets though.

You wouldn't.

That's why I'm saying that if the NHL owned the AHL, you'd basically be doing away with (Not sure what they're called in hockey, in baseball, it's a PDL. The affiliate agreement), and reorganizing it in a way where that doesn't happen, and it's designed to regionally strengthen every team's brand.

For example, the Carolina Hurricanes would run the AHL Charlotte team. Because extending their brand to Charlotte helps them. Florida having their AHL team there isn't helping the Canes any. (I don't know think we can really quantify how much an AHL team factors in to NHL attendance, but it has to be at least slightly greater than zero. But opportunity cost is high of spreading your popularity in your state's biggest city

And Florida would get like Jacksonville instead, with Tampa taking Orlando. That kind of thing.

 

[Cacciaguida]

Well if you'd look at my icon you'd know I'd support the Baltimore Clippers coming back as a Canes affiliate!

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Well if you'd look at my icon you'd know I'd support the Baltimore Clippers coming back as a Canes affiliate!

I’m partial to the Bandits but I’d be happy either way

 

[Yukon Joe]

You wouldn't.

That's why I'm saying that if the NHL owned the AHL, you'd basically be doing away with (Not sure what they're called in hockey, in baseball, it's a PDL. The affiliate agreement), and reorganizing it in a way where that doesn't happen, and it's designed to regionally strengthen every team's brand.

For example, the Carolina Hurricanes would run the AHL Charlotte team. Because extending their brand to Charlotte helps them. Florida having their AHL team there isn't helping the Canes any. (I don't know think we can really quantify how much an AHL team factors in to NHL attendance, but it has to be at least slightly greater than zero. But opportunity cost is high of spreading your popularity in your state's biggest city

And Florida would get like Jacksonville instead, with Tampa taking Orlando. That kind of thing.

I don't think an AHL affiliate helps extend the major league club's brand much, if at all.

So look I'm a Winnipeg guy. When the Jets first came back they put their AHL affiliate (which they owned) in St John's NFLD. The team was quite popular - but I don't think it led to the slightest increase in Jets fans in Newfoundland. Similarly back in Jets 1.0 days, their affiliate was in Moncton - again no increase in New Brunswick Jets fans.

In a different sport - Edmonton (where I now live) used to be home to the AAA baseball club the Edmonton Trappers. They eventually left in 2004 (the cold weather we still get at season start was always a problem). During their time in AAA baseball they were affiliated with the Expos, Twins, Angels, Athletics, Marlins, Angels and White Sox. TO the modern day none of those teams are any more popular in Edmonton because we once were home to the minor league team.

And going back to the Jets - their affiliate (the Manitoba Moose) is now based right out of Winnipeg. The thing is I don't think the Jets have noticed any cannibalization of ticket sales. The price points are different. The fanbase is different.

Now look - when it comes to the Jets at one point the plan had been to try and put the AHL affiliate in Thunder Bay, ON. It's about 8-9 hours away from Winnipeg, but much, much further away from Toronto. So perhaps doing so would have helped extend the Jets "brand" into north-western Ontario, in a way that never happened in St John's. Maybe you need to be close, but not too close.

But the thing is - I don't think so. If you live in Thunder Bay you're going to continue to be a Leafs/Habs/whatever fan - even if you religiously go to Jets AHL games.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

DW, during a STM event, said that the team is buying an existing franchise. The owner backed out at the last moment on the previous deal but are currently working on a 2nd purchase since the league hasnt allowed 33 franchises. The announcement will come in the summer according to DW.

that article was solely focused on the possibility to expanding the AHL when that hasnt been Carolina's focus since October.

 

[Yukon Joe]

DW, during a STM event, said that the team is buying an existing franchise. The owner backed out at the last moment on the previous deal but are currently working on a 2nd purchase since the league hasnt allowed 33 franchises. The announcement will come in the summer according to DW.

that article was solely focused on the possibility to expanding the AHL when that hasnt been Carolina's focus since October.

Doesn't that just avoid the issue in some ways?

Unless if the team they plan to purchase is the Chicago Wolves (who are a successful franchise in their own right) that just means that Carolina is purchasing someone else's affiliate, leaving that other team without an affiliate?

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Doesn't that just avoid the issue in some ways?

Unless if the team they plan to purchase is the Chicago Wolves (who are a successful franchise in their own right) that just means that Carolina is purchasing someone else's affiliate, leaving that other team without an affiliate?

If they vote to ban independents in all circumstances, it forces Chicago to affiliate with the loser of the affiliation musical chairs and be a good partner or sell.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Doesn't that just avoid the issue in some ways?

Unless if the team they plan to purchase is the Chicago Wolves (who are a successful franchise in their own right) that just means that Carolina is purchasing someone else's affiliate, leaving that other team without an affiliate?

Possibly but at least Carolina wouldn’t have to worry about Chicago playing games with prospect development. Let another team deal with it

 

[VaCaps Fan]

If Richmond, VA builds an arena? Canes AHL team…

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

If Richmond, VA builds an arena? Canes AHL team…

Seeing how Tom D doesn’t want to spend any extra dollars on anything not related to the guys on the ice, we would target a place with a minimal travel budget. Baltimore made sense with its proximity to Raleigh and then the rest of the expected division foes. Richmond while close to charlotte it adds a bunch of miles to the division foes

 

[GKJ]

That leads to question who is on the block for selling?

 

[KevFu]

I don't think an AHL affiliate helps extend the major league club's brand much, if at all.

So look I'm a Winnipeg guy. When the Jets first came back they put their AHL affiliate (which they owned) in St John's NFLD. The team was quite popular - but I don't think it led to the slightest increase in Jets fans in Newfoundland. Similarly back in Jets 1.0 days, their affiliate was in Moncton - again no increase in New Brunswick Jets fans.

I hear you and I don't think that an AHL team has a large financial significance in terms of stealing loyalty.... but you aren't exactly describing "battleground territory" with New Foundland and Moncton.

It's more places that are halfway between two teams: Is Hartford more "New York metro area" or "New England?" Boston had an issue with Hartford joining the NHL as the "New England" Whalers. The Rangers set up AHL shop there to extend their reach. It can easily be argued that the people of Hartford would never root for the Bruins. But that's because they were division rivals with Boston in the NHL. Whereas...

Charlotte is between Raleigh and Atlanta. The Canes would want Charlotte as an extended part of their market, Canes games on TV, and Thrashers blacked out.

Synergy is better than disputes, that's all I'm saying.

 

[rojac]

I hear you and I don't think that an AHL team has a large financial significance in terms of stealing loyalty.... but you aren't exactly describing "battleground territory" with New Foundland and Moncton.

It's more places that are halfway between two teams: Is Hartford more "New York metro area" or "New England?" Boston had an issue with Hartford joining the NHL as the "New England" Whalers. The Rangers set up AHL shop there to extend their reach. It can easily be argued that the people of Hartford would never root for the Bruins. But that's because they were division rivals with Boston in the NHL. Whereas...

Charlotte is between Raleigh and Atlanta. The Canes would want Charlotte as an extended part of their market, Canes games on TV, and Thrashers blacked out.

Synergy is better than disputes, that's all I'm saying.

As far as I can tell, AHL team location has nothing to do with an NHL team's TV territory. Both Winnipeg and Toronto have had their AHL team in St. John's, Newfoundland but Newfoundland remained Senators/Canadiens TV territory and Leafs/Jets games were blacked out. And both Edmonton and Montreal have had their AHL team within the Leafs 0rotected erritories and again no effect on NHL broadcasts. And how many AHL affiliates of other teams have been in the RangersTV territory?

Ultimately, I suspect that Charlotte will up in the same TV territory as they were in during the Thrasher days and that the location of Carolina's AHL team will have no effect whatsoever.

 

[bleedgreen]

I hear you and I don't think that an AHL team has a large financial significance in terms of stealing loyalty.... but you aren't exactly describing "battleground territory" with New Foundland and Moncton.

It's more places that are halfway between two teams: Is Hartford more "New York metro area" or "New England?" Boston had an issue with Hartford joining the NHL as the "New England" Whalers. The Rangers set up AHL shop there to extend their reach. It can easily be argued that the people of Hartford would never root for the Bruins. But that's because they were division rivals with Boston in the NHL. Whereas...

Charlotte is between Raleigh and Atlanta. The Canes would want Charlotte as an extended part of their market, Canes games on TV, and Thrashers blacked out.

Synergy is better than disputes, that's all I'm saying.

The league had allowed a third of CT to be in the Rangers cable territory. You couldn’t watch a Whalers game if you lived in the west side of a very small state. You could watch the Rangers everywhere in the state of course. The league set the table for the Rangers to put their minor league team there. I don’t think the Bruins or anyone else could’ve gotten in there.

 

[Chrispy]

I hear you and I don't think that an AHL team has a large financial significance in terms of stealing loyalty.... but you aren't exactly describing "battleground territory" with New Foundland and Moncton.

It's more places that are halfway between two teams: Is Hartford more "New York metro area" or "New England?" Boston had an issue with Hartford joining the NHL as the "New England" Whalers. The Rangers set up AHL shop there to extend their reach. It can easily be argued that the people of Hartford would never root for the Bruins. But that's because they were division rivals with Boston in the NHL. Whereas...

Charlotte is between Raleigh and Atlanta. The Canes would want Charlotte as an extended part of their market, Canes games on TV, and Thrashers blacked out.

Synergy is better than disputes, that's all I'm saying.

I think this type of synergy was the plan when Carolina affiliated with Charlotte and Charlotte's owner became a minority owner of the Canes.

But Charlotte was always nominally a part of Carolina's TV region, and from all reports they did not see a significant increase in interest in the Hurricanes from the affiliation with the Checkers. Was that because Carolina was still in an extended playoff drought for most of that time? Possibly, but it didn't increase as Carolina returned to the playoffs in 2019 and played well in 19-20.

Then Carolina moved to the Wolves affiliation in 2020, which most fans found to be an odd choice at the time. Some also predicted that the Wolves would be an issue for Carolina, just as they were for Vancouver and St. Louis.

 

[StreetHawk]

Then Carolina moved to the Wolves affiliation in 2020, which most fans found to be an odd choice at the time. Some also predicted that the Wolves would be an issue for Carolina, just as they were for Vancouver and St. Louis.

Wolves are like the last IHL team in the AHL. Back in the days of the Long Beach Ice Dogs, LV Thunder, Detroit Vipers, Kalamazoo Wings, etc. In the AHL, they still view themselves as a legit pro team, trying to win championships, vs develop players for their NHL club team.