NFL in Canada, what would attendances look like

[MMC]

I know that the NFL in Canada has been discussed heavily and there's several reasons why it both could or not work, but I just want to know what attendance figures would likely look like if cities like Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, etc did end up getting a team, regardless of how likely it is they ever would. Would some of them be near the top of the league, or in the bottom? How much would it depend on the competitiveness of the team?

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[BKIslandersFan]

I think Toronto would do well.

Other Canadian cities have zero chance of getting a team.

 

[OG6ix]

I think Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver would easily be able to support a team. That being said they could probably support basketball and in Montreal's case baseball. I think the NFL would be crazy popular in Canada. It already as without teams!

 

[NextBigThing]

NFL doesn't draw in Canada. Toronto used to get one game per season and it was a piss poor showing. Forget Canada and go all in with Europe.

 

[MMC]

Assuming Toronto could have support in the current midrange of 65,000. Could they do even better and get in the 70s, a top 10 attendance around the league? Would they drift into the 50s if the team was awful? Would Vancouver or Montreal also be able to hang in the 60s?

 

[Melrose Munch]

Probably would do well in Toronto and Vancouver. I think Toronto will draw well.

 

[Digital Kid]

NFL teams are highly unlikely in Canada.

Because of the schedule in December and January, teams would either have to play road games during those months (and what do you do if you get a home playoff game?)

There are three domed stadiums in Canada to counteract winter conditions: Toronto's Rogers Centre (Blue Jays stadium) which seats 50,000; Olympic Stadium in Montreal (whose roof may or may not be covered depending on how mothballed that stadium is) seats 56,000 and is where the Expos used to play; and BC Place Stadium in Vancouver which seats 54,500 and is still the home of the CFL's BC Lions.

The largest stadium in Canada is actually Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton at 56,400 (outdoor NHL game in 2003) but is not covered.

Toronto is the only possible city to get a team in my mind, but its population is more and more made up of people whose familiarity with and love for football is nil.

Based on my eyeball test going to Calgary Stampeders CFL games, new Canadians are not choosing CFL football (nor many sports in general) so convincing them to go to NFL games at possibly an even higher ticket price than CFL games is mildly optimistic.

I am not picking on criticizing their choices, but as Toronto is the most likely city in this conversation and half Toronto's population being new to the country, the point has to be made that they would need to be taught to love football, and Lord knows the CFL has had a hard time doing that, so the NFL might have trouble as well.

 

[OG6ix]

NFL doesn't draw in Canada. Toronto used to get one game per season and it was a piss poor showing. Forget Canada and go all in with Europe.

Stop talking out of your ass dude. I guarantee you a team with Toronto on their jerseys would sell out every game this isn't charging 200 dollars for the bills vs lions. The NFL would draw more viewers in Toronto than soccer would in the US lol.

 

[OG6ix]

NFL teams are highly unlikely in Canada.

Because of the schedule in December and January, teams would either have to play road games during those months (and what do you do if you get a home playoff game?)

There are three domed stadiums in Canada to counteract winter conditions: Toronto's Rogers Centre (Blue Jays stadium) which seats 50,000; Olympic Stadium in Montreal (whose roof may or may not be covered depending on how mothballed that stadium is) seats 56,000 and is where the Expos used to play; and BC Place Stadium in Vancouver which seats 54,500 and is still the home of the CFL's BC Lions.

The largest stadium in Canada is actually Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton at 56,400 (outdoor NHL game in 2003) but is not covered.

Toronto is the only possible city to get a team in my mind, but its population is more and more made up of people whose familiarity with and love for football is nil.

Based on my eyeball test going to Calgary Stampeders CFL games, new Canadians are not choosing CFL football (nor many sports in general) so convincing them to go to NFL games at possibly an even higher ticket price than CFL games is mildly optimistic.

I am not picking on criticizing their choices, but as Toronto is the most likely city in this conversation and half Toronto's population being new to the country, the point has to be made that they would need to be taught to love football, and Lord knows the CFL has had a hard time doing that, so the NFL might have trouble as well.

Not sure how it is in Calgary but you are so far off with Toronto. There are tons and tons of NFL fans here. Go into bars pre-pandemic on a Sunday and you would not be able to navigate through all the fans watching their teams games. Solid tv ratings for NFL here too. It's to the point that no one cares about the CFL and football I synonymous with the NFL.

What do you mean by new Canadians? I've seen children of immigrants all into the NFL and football. Ranging from Europeans, south Asians, Asians, Africans, etc.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Re Ratings, nationally the CFL does well. A decline from the early 2010s, but well. Issue is the CFL does not really market to new canadians at all and it's main demographic is 55-60 year old white guys. Not the biggest spending group.


It would work in Toronto. Just need a stadium. Probably the Port Lands if it has to be down town.

 

[razor ray]

Not sure it is still the case but a decade or so ago the Bills had 20% of their season ticket holders were from Ontario. I know a lot of folks from Ontario attend Lions games as well. The interest is there they just need a team.

I'm not sure what the Bills status is on a stadium but I believe they are close enough to Toronto where they do not need to pay a relocation fee IF they moved. That's probably the only likely scenario because the NFL has it perfect with their divisions and number of teams.

IF the NFL goes to 40 teams then they will for sure put two in London as they already have two NFL ready stadiums. That leaves 6 more teams and the USA is almost maxed out. So perhaps something like:

London team A
London team B
Toronto
Vancouver
Salt Lake
Portland
St. Louis or 2nd Chicago team
San Antonio or Austin

It just depends on what ownership group and city would commit to make it happen. Perhaps in Toronto or Vancouver could build something like this (new stadium in London) for their MLS and NFL teams which could both play a game in the stadium the same day:

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

The only NFL teams I could see playing in Canada are the Bills and Lions, if either of them were to build a new home stadium on the Canadian side of their respective metro areas.

 

[Digital Kid]

Not sure how it is in Calgary but you are so far off with Toronto. There are tons and tons of NFL fans here. Go into bars pre-pandemic on a Sunday and you would not be able to navigate through all the fans watching their teams games. Solid tv ratings for NFL here too. It's to the point that no one cares about the CFL and football I synonymous with the NFL.

What do you mean by new Canadians? I've seen children of immigrants all into the NFL and football. Ranging from Europeans, south Asians, Asians, Africans, etc.

Watching a game on TV and shelling out $200 for a ticket are two different concepts.

 

[Jets4Life]

If Toronto ever built a 80,000 seat outdoor stadium (or one similar to Minneapolis), they would sell out every game for years. The city has long tuned out the CFL Argos, since they consider the CFL "minor league" There is a reason MLS soccer is far more popular than CFL football.

Some people like to point out the Buffalo "experiment" but if we really look at it, who is going to cheer for a team that belongs to a different country? At the time, the Bills were horrible as well. Let's not forget the Bills were charging insane prices to see the games at the SkyDome...I believe it was double the NFL average.

The NFL should have given a team to Toronto in the last 20 years, but I guess they are worried that placing a team in Canada will kill off the CFL, but I say why not? A Toronto NFL team would be a massive success.

 

[Jets4Life]

The only NFL teams I could see playing in Canada are the Bills and Lions, if either of them were to build a new home stadium on the Canadian side of their respective metro areas.

The Steelers, Raiders, Cowboys, and Packers would all be far better draws. Now that Buffalo has a good team, I can see Toronto supporting them. Detroit? I doubt it.

Unless you meant permanently relocating to Toronto, and not just playing a couple of games per season at the SkyDome.

 

[Jets4Life]

IF the NFL goes to 40 teams then they will for sure put two in London as they already have two NFL ready stadiums. That leaves 6 more teams and the USA is almost maxed out. So perhaps something like:

London team A
London team B
Toronto
Vancouver
Salt Lake
Portland
St. Louis or 2nd Chicago team
San Antonio or Austin

It just depends on what ownership group and city would commit to make it happen. Perhaps in Toronto or Vancouver could build something like this (new stadium in London) for their MLS and NFL teams which could both play a game in the stadium the same day:

Now that we have seen the logical uncertainties COVID has created for league that have teams in Canada, there is no way the NFL will put teams in the UK. Zero chance. And 2 teams?

Vancouver will never get an NFL team. The market is too small, and Montreal would be a better fit if a stadium is built (BC Place is inadequate for NFL football).

A second team in Chicago would never work.

 

[OG6ix]

Watching a game on TV and shelling out $200 for a ticket are two different concepts.

Never said it wasn't. Also I do think. They would sell out. Toronto has the population and corporate base easily to support a franchise. 200 dollars is nothing - people were paying those prices for the Raptors when they were not very good. TFC even charges an arm and a leg and that's MLS which is basically minor league soccer.

 

[LeHab]

Recent survey related to the topic:

In the survey, 34 per cent of respondents said they either didn’t want the NFL in Canada or wanted it only if the CFL also survived. But while 11 per cent said they’d welcome the NFL’s arrival even at the expense of the CFL, a majority (55 per cent) didn’t care much either way.

Survey results indicate many Canadians don’t want NFL here at expense of CFL | Globalnews.ca

Toronto is the only realistic location however NFL does not like corporate ownership and supply of local billionaires willing to shell for a franchise and stadium (unlikely to be publicly funded) can't be very high. Would a foreign owner want to get a franchise here?

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The only NFL teams I could see playing in Canada are the Bills and Lions, if either of them were to build a new home stadium on the Canadian side of their respective metro areas.

Not happening unless US and Canada enter in to some kind of Schengen Zone agreement (sp?).

Would be pretty cool though.

 

[bacon25]

Do Canadians watch NCAA football?

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

The only way I see it happening is if the NFL and CFL agree to a merger and a longer schedule, I'm talking about 8-12 more games. But the one thing that'd be hard to negotiate is field size as well as the different assigned positions the CFL has that's different from the NFL such as slotback.

Or have the Canadian teams play in the US cities come winter.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Vancouver and TO that is it

 

[OG6ix]

Recent survey related to the topic:



Survey results indicate many Canadians don’t want NFL here at expense of CFL | Globalnews.ca

Toronto is the only realistic location however NFL does not like corporate ownership and supply of local billionaires willing to shell for a franchise and stadium (unlikely to be publicly funded) can't be very high. Would a foreign owner want to get a franchise here?

Yeah - I don't buy that survey. Their sample size is low and I wonder if it skewed west being in lethbridge. Maybe the a good portion of Canada is not on board with the NFL but let's be honest the NFL would never go to cities like Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg etc. I can safely say that the CFL is irrelevent in Toronto / GTA - it's not even irrelevent it's non-existent. I think the last time I saw someone in an argos jersey was in like the early 90s when Doug Flutie was on the team. I once had a handful of tickets I got from work for free that I literally could not give away - even giving it to a charity required more work on my end and they were good seats lower bowl. I understand that it might be a big deal elsewhere in Canada and I assume it's because outside the NHL there really is not a whole hell of a lot of in terms of big league sports alternatives.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Of course, if an AFC team not in the West Division relocates to Portland, Oregon, I think it would trigger a realignment of that team into the AFC West, which would require the removal of the Chiefs from the AFC West. What other teams change divisions is dependent on which team relocates to Portland.

 

[Section 104]

Now that we have seen the logical uncertainties COVID has created for league that have teams in Canada, there is no way the NFL will put teams in the UK. Zero chance. And 2 teams?

Vancouver will never get an NFL team. The market is too small, and Montreal would be a better fit if a stadium is built (BC Place is inadequate for NFL football).

A second team in Chicago would never work.

Chicago had a second team until 1960, the Cardinals, but they were mostly dismal except for a few years in the late 1940s until they were allowed to move to St Louis and later Phoenix. As to whether a second team would work, I have no idea. I don’t expect to see the NFL put one there.

My memory is back in the 1970s when the WFL was being formed, it was discouraged from putting a team in Toronto for fear of hurting the CFL.