bleedgreen
Registered User
Well this is part of the core of the argument. I don’t think anyone believes the difference between Tro and KK is actually 2 pts. Using stats to get there makes stats look bad.
News & Notes XLII: Consolidation Season
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Stickpucker
Playmaka
- Jan 18, 2014
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Dare I say I think Rasks peak was better than anything we've yet to see from Kokomiami
Weenie
- Jul 7, 2017
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Jesus, F26 is just as miserable to read as the main boards right now and I don't think I need to say that's BAD...
Or Trocheck wasn’t as good here as you think.
I’d frame it like this. Trocheck was an all situations player for a team that could get by with splitting up his minutes. Kotkaniemi and now Drury have played his 5v5 role to an acceptable degree. Jarvis has done the same on the PP and PK. I don’t think that’s inherently inefficient. And the team continues to win games.
Dom still has us as the statistical favorite to win the cup (Canes=14%. Dallas/Oilers at 13%, Cats at 11%... a couple at 9%/8% and the rest 5% or below). Also, a good chart on remaining games strength of schedule comparison:
I'll chime in....our top 2 lines are better than when Tro was here.
PP is significantly better & team's offensive capability (yeah I know not the last few games but) with Necas an older/better player & Bunting on the line is also better than what Tro had. Plus, Jarvis although on the offensive black hole line right now is a much better offensive player than a couple of years ago.
bleedgreen
Registered User
I’ve always said it was more about what we replaced him with than how good he was. He was a good fit and hard to replace, and we’re still struggling to replace him now. I agree we’ve found ways to adjust….but we still have a hole in his spot that most teams (including us) would upgrade. “To an acceptable degree” sounds like “not to the same level but acceptable”. Which is the point. Not as good. I agree Jarvis, Drury and others are improving which helps, but if we had a Tro level 2C to compliment them….wed obviously be a better team and one in better shape to go deeper in the playoffs. We’ve said we want one so this all feels silly even to me. The team would prefer a better 2C and a righty. They looked into Lindy. The team feels like this is a weakness so I don’t know what to make of all these arguments that we’re fine with what we have there - the team disagrees with you. We’re making do and we didn’t improve with spending Tro’s money elsewhere.
What the team needs or could use is a 2C better than what Trocheck provided here. That’s where my disconnect comes from and why I’m trying to talk myself into Pettersson happening.
Perhaps even @Gocanes0506 would agree with that statement.
Perhaps even @Gocanes0506 would agree with that statement.
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
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I think we could use another scoring punch, no matter the position.
the center thing is tricky.
Trocheck never seemed to have much chemistry with the winger options, especially necas. Necas is a fixture of the 2nd line. Drury and Necas are working right now. KK and Necas had some at the beginning of last season and it wore off, none this season. Idk if KK is trying to show he can be an offensive driving center and he is leaning less towards defense like last season and more towards trying to produce. And Necas needs a center that will let him use his speed and for the most part dominate the puck. Aho and Necas are up and down on chemistry. 3v3 its electric but not so much with tight ice, 5v5.
a higher producing center is fine as long as they have chemistry with Necas or we going to have a weird makeup again where necas is on the 4th line with Drury and Noesen while we have a more checking style 2nd line.
im sure some will read this as im placing blame on necas or something. I am not. He is a fixture on the team and plays a lot of minutes. We need someone to compliment him in 5v5 play, not clash with him.
Another thing with Trocheck was playoff scoring. He ended his Carolina tenure with 15 points over 31 playoff GP, and that was with pretty consistent 1st unit PP time. His EV point total was just 9. "Blackhole" Staal put up 12 in the same sample.
The organization has low key shedded forwards that haven't scored in crunchtime. Foegele and Niederreiter were Carolina-type players. Both just didn't score in the playoffs, despite playing the right way. Foegele got skunked against Boston and Tampa. Niederreiter had a dreadful 12 points in 42 playoff GP with the Canes. Another reason why 88's long-term future is a question mark.
The organization has low key shedded forwards that haven't scored in crunchtime. Foegele and Niederreiter were Carolina-type players. Both just didn't score in the playoffs, despite playing the right way. Foegele got skunked against Boston and Tampa. Niederreiter had a dreadful 12 points in 42 playoff GP with the Canes. Another reason why 88's long-term future is a question mark.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
I'm not sure if the chemistry last season was KK-Necas, or Svech-Necas with KK simply being the third wheel and a decent net-front guy similar to how Rucchin used to be the third wheel for Kariya-Selanne in Anaheim back in the day. I'd lean toward the later. SvechNecas hasn't so much been a thing this year and the results for KK are showing a good bit in that regard.
I agree that Kotkaniemi worked well with that line as either net front or high forward in most cases, allowing Svech and Necas to create.
They haven't really given SvechNecas much of a chance this year, have they? Svechnikov has been with Aho for quite a while now.
And while we've seen success from Svech-Aho-Necas in the past, I don't think the current roster has the scoring depth to play that first line.
Bunting-Drury-Jarvis as a second line? TT-Drury-Jarvis? Ugh.
Stickpucker
Playmaka
- Jan 18, 2014
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bleedgreen
Registered User
The only guy I’ve seen have what I would call chemistry with Necas is Aho. 5v5 anyways, TT finds him well on the pp. I think Necas is like Skinner in that it’s not easy to find someone who has chemistry with him. Sometimes you’re better off just letting him go do his thing. Svech at times clicks with him but I feel it’s inconsistent. This isn’t a Tro or KK issue imo, I just think Necas needs guys that read where he’s going to feed them more than they need to hold the puck themselves.
I would leave Necas with Aho for awhile. They attack the zone with speed very well together.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
I'd say Necas clicks with Svech pretty well. When they were together last year even when it wasn't producing goals they were producing by far our most dangerous chances in given games. Necas does work well with Aho as well to your point though, which kindof confuses me as to why we've never seen Rod go all out with the first line and go Svech-Aho-Necas, and roll with something like Marty-Staal-Jarvis as the second line when they do that.
Nikishin Go Boom
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i havent liked when Aho and Necas play together in none OT situations. They dont compliment each other and neither are defensive stalwarts or physical. Both are kind of floaters when they dont have the puck but will sometimes find soft areas in the zone. Necas loses too many board battles and loses the puck a lot of find aho when he finds a good area. Aho, although not as bad a long the boards, can have the same issue.
and looking at those crazy stat things, both of them do far better away from each other than with each other in 5v5 play.
WreckingCrew
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- Feb 4, 2015
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People forgetting that at the start of the season KK-Necas carried us for a bit both being PPG guys. KK obviously has since fallen off and nothing has really clicked for a 2nd line setup. Tro was/is better than what KK has been from overall consistency, are people arguing KK is better? We didn't choose KK > Tro, we were NEVER going to go with Tro @ his contract. We went with KK because we didn't like the back half of a Tro contract and it potentially becoming an anchor. KK ain't bring it right now in any way, but his contract life is less of an anchor and has some "buyout protection". I don't think the contract has stopped us from pursuing any other options, I just don't think there have been any other options really worth pursuing. What other guys could we have realistically gotten INSTEAD of KK that we didn't actively try to pursue? We're a shoot first ask questions later GMBC, we'll get the guy we want and figure out supplemental movements later (i.e. Faulk, Pesce, Doogie) to make sure everything fits.
- Jul 7, 2017
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Just all of the bickering and back-and-forth about Orlov, KK, and Tro. It's long moved past thoughtful discourse.
Cardiac Jerks
Asinine & immoral
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
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yep and having him start with slavin and staal is just absurd too. how could the team do that and not want to win the OT?
- Oct 31, 2007
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I was going to say it's because he spent some time as a forward, but I looked up that season and despite having 22 goals, none were in OT.
Joe McGrath
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I think it’s because he’s 10th all time in goals by defenseman and no one in front of him played with 3 on 3 OT. Statistically speaking he’s probably the most likely person to hold that record.
To that end, how fast do you think a 3 on 3 OT would end with Lemieux-Jagr-Coffey starting it?
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
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GMDW on Ray and Dregs with stories about the Miracle on Ice team.
We have 2100 cones put out a night, Ray asked who puts them all out
GMDW drew Herb Brooks for the christmas party. It was a gag gift type. He said he had bad acne at that point, so he got some acne cream. He, with help, bought Herb a whip. He said one of his teammates ratted on him after the party. He got the lecture of his life.
He said some things were fluffed in the Miracle movie but it was 95% on.
He doesnt like the goalie health issues have followed him. He and Ray were discussing using 7 goalies on a ATL Thrashers team.
The original plane that moved the team doubled as a prisoner transfer plane when they didnt need it. They would take out the coach class style seats and put in first class seats to move the team. Then flip it back when the State of Georgia needed to transfer prisoners. lol
We have 2100 cones put out a night, Ray asked who puts them all out
GMDW drew Herb Brooks for the christmas party. It was a gag gift type. He said he had bad acne at that point, so he got some acne cream. He, with help, bought Herb a whip. He said one of his teammates ratted on him after the party. He got the lecture of his life.
He said some things were fluffed in the Miracle movie but it was 95% on.
He doesnt like the goalie health issues have followed him. He and Ray were discussing using 7 goalies on a ATL Thrashers team.
The original plane that moved the team doubled as a prisoner transfer plane when they didnt need it. They would take out the coach class style seats and put in first class seats to move the team. Then flip it back when the State of Georgia needed to transfer prisoners. lol
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