Proposal: New York/San Jose Trade

[Gospel of Prospal]

Rangers trade D Matthew Robertson and a fourth round pick to Sharks for RW Anthony Duclair (50% retained)

Click to read more...

 

[Mrfenn92]

Bern gonna be mad

 

[Groo]

Pass. No thanks on a 5'9 defenseman

 

[eco's bones]

Pass. No thanks on a 5'9 defenseman

Not that you should care about the offer but Robertson is actually 6'4.

 

[Sendhelplease]

My concerns with Robertson is that he is listed as a left shot. The Sharks have plenty of left shot defensemen with Muk, Okhotiuk, and Thrun. If the rangers offered a comparable prospect at another position I'd probably accept.

 

[bernmeister]

Bern gonna be mad

they should listen to me, accept growing pains, and play this kid

since they already efffed it up big time by not doing so, a deal may be lesser of 2 evils than to lose him for nothing

but I don't want another effin rental

damn it to fuggin hell, I want picks

Robertson + 4th for a 2nd -- if 2024 too valuable, then a later 2026 2nd

they should listen to me, accept growing pains, and play this kid

since they already efffed it up big time by not doing so, a deal may be lesser of 2 evils than to lose him for nothing

but I don't want another effin rental

damn it to fuggin hell, I want picks

Robertson + 4th for a 2nd -- if 2024 too valuable, then a later 2026 2nd

yeah welcome to the club, there's a real dearth of RD league wide esp quality RD

 

[Groo]

Not that you should care about the offer but Robertson is actually 6'4.

Okay. I pulled the 5'9 directly from EP

 

[Alluckks]

Okay. I pulled the 5'9 directly from EP

Is your eliteprospects from 2018?

 

[Tob]

but the fact that the 6'4 defenseman was even 5'9 at one point just scares me off from the idea.

 

[CaptainShark]

Okay. I pulled the 5'9 directly from EP

You got your Matthew Robertsons mixed up (there are 6 of them in EPs DB, it’s an epidemic)

 

[Hodge]

Okay. I pulled the 5'9 directly from EP

Matthew Robertson at eliteprospects.com

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Matthew Robertson, 2001-03-09 Edmonton, AB, CAN Canada. Most recently in the AHL with Hartford Wolf Pack. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

It's this guy.

And yeah I would probably do that deal for Duclair.

 

[CaptainShark]

The only holdup for me would be the last retention spot. If I am Grier, i would pull the trigger a minute before the deadline if it has become clear, that they don’t need the spot for more impactful trade.

 

[Groo]

Is your eliteprospects from 2018?

View attachment 820644

1st one I came across didn't give the height or weight. The next one had him at 5'9 160 something. Perhaps I got the wrong Robertson

You got your Matthew Robertsons mixed up (there are 6 of them in EPs DB, it’s an epidemic)

Seems I have

 

[ThorNton Apologist]

I don’t see SJ getting a better offer than this. Hope I’m wrong.

 

[SML2]

they should listen to me, accept growing pains, and play this kid

since they already efffed it up big time by not doing so, a deal may be lesser of 2 evils than to lose him for nothing

but I don't want another effin rental

damn it to fuggin hell, I want picks

Robertson + 4th for a 2nd -- if 2024 too valuable, then a later 2026 2nd


yeah welcome to the club, there's a real dearth of RD league wide esp quality RD

Teams in their win window don't trade roster players for picks unless it's to open cap for other roster players.

 

[bernmeister]

Teams in their win window don't trade roster players for picks unless it's to open cap for other roster players.

And again, I am right, they are wrong, not because ego sum, I am saying so, and my opinion postures as if it is governing by fiat, but rather because the track record objectively verifies this.
Win now is a failed approach.
In all of sports, only LA Rams coupla yrs ago, going all in, won the Super Bowl, and even then, Niners had it but effed up a late lead.
In hockey, depth is particularly key.
Yes, you can add depth by trade. Happens all the time. And it is fast.
But because it is cheaper b'c it builds on youth, depth from building rather than trading, while slower, allows for more total depth.

We see in case of Rs, repeat rentals recent years = repeat failures.
Those are not in a vacuum w/o consequences.
We have to stop giving away youth like candy.
We need to recover from excessive splurges.

NO, bend, buckle and break, Drury.
Learn from the bern.
can do
vets for vets
youth for youth
vets for youth
but not youth for vets


end rant/mic drop

 

[eco's bones]

Never thought that correcting the height disparity would become such an issue, but whatever.

It seems as if his two way game is improving. Some defensemen take a bit of time to make the NHL. It's not an easy position to play and attaining consistency is a big thing for the position. it wouldn't surprise me that he'll become an NHL'er a little later like 24, 25, 26 years old. When drafted Matthew as thought of as having a safe defensive game and maybe a guy who would have a 15 year NHL career. Well, the draft being what it is and the drafted being mostly 18 or so year olds.....some will live up to all the hype and some won't.

He has the tools to be very good. Very good size and reach, skates very well, good stick skills. He needs to settle on defending first IMO and rely more on and trusting his instincts and less on thinking too much. A lot with defending is reading and reacting and using your partner well.

Should the Rangers force him into the lineup? I'm against that altogether. It might be different if the Rangers weren't at least something of a contending team. But forcing players into the lineup is better done with bottom feeder teams who are short on young talent.

 

[TGWL]

And again, I am right, they are wrong, not because ego sum, I am saying so, and my opinion postures as if it is governing by fiat, but rather because the track record objectively verifies this.
Win now is a failed approach.
In all of sports, only LA Rams coupla yrs ago, going all in, won the Super Bowl, and even then, Niners had it but effed up a late lead.
In hockey, depth is particularly key.
Yes, you can add depth by trade. Happens all the time. And it is fast.
But because it is cheaper b'c it builds on youth, depth from building rather than trading, while slower, allows for more total depth.

We see in case of Rs, repeat rentals recent years = repeat failures.
Those are not in a vacuum w/o consequences.
We have to stop giving away youth like candy.
We need to recover from excessive splurges.

NO, bend, buckle and break, Drury.
Learn from the bern.
can do
vets for vets
youth for youth
vets for youth
but not youth for vets


end rant/mic drop

You also don't win when the youth does nothing. Let's not act like we traded away all the youth who have become stars now. You want to sell everybody off at their highest value.. But sometimes keeping those players has a higher value to your team. You can't come pounding your chest saying you were right because the fans want a player traded, or that player is now on the chopping block 3+ years after you wanted him gone at their highest value. Eventually those players get traded.

Regarding youth for youth, that only works when
A: You have a spot for the youth player.
B: That youth player has earned a look to be in the line-up. You don't just dedicate minutes to all your youth and see if they sink or swim. The team has too many players they rely on to just throw a Roberston in the lineup for 20+ games for evaluation.

 

[fasterthanlight]

Yeah, sure, I'd do it, assuming we don't have a better use at the deadline for that retention slot. I'd probably prefer (if possible) to pick up a 2nd rounder with the retention slot if someone is willing to put one up for, e.g., ferraro, barabanov, etc.

 

[JimmyG89]

My concerns with Robertson is that he is listed as a left shot. The Sharks have plenty of left shot defensemen with Muk, Okhotiuk, and Thrun. If the rangers offered a comparable prospect at another position I'd probably accept.

I'm not familiar with the Shark's system, but what is the biggest area of need for that prospect depth? The Rangers are loaded up on wingers in their minor system and it's going to be tough for some to break through.

 

[Sendhelplease]

I'm not familiar with the Shark's system, but what is the biggest area of need for that prospect depth? The Rangers are loaded up on wingers in their minor system and it's going to be tough for some to break through.

I'd say we have plenty of needs in the system its just that LD is the one area we don't really need to add any players. I think we might need more right shot wings and then of course we could always use more RD and Center depth. Another area we could improve on would be goaltending

 

[bernmeister]

You also don't win when the youth does nothing. Let's not act like we traded away all the youth who have become stars now. You want to sell everybody off at their highest value.. But sometimes keeping those players has a higher value to your team. You can't come pounding your chest saying you were right because the fans want a player traded, or that player is now on the chopping block 3+ years after you wanted him gone at their highest value. Eventually those players get traded.

Regarding youth for youth, that only works when
A: You have a spot for the youth player.
B: That youth player has earned a look to be in the line-up. You don't just dedicate minutes to all your youth and see if they sink or swim. The team has too many players they rely on to just throw a Roberston in the lineup for 20+ games for evaluation.

but "youth does nothing" is a direct function here of not getting fair chances b'c vets are favored.
That bs prejudice has to stop

As to "youth for youth, that only works when..." I disagree to the extent the overriding bottom line is you try to improve by constantly upgrading. We don't deal anybody for the sake of a deal, including youth for youth; but if there is a reasonable perception of profit, you go there, including youth for youth [e.g., Othmann + Berard ++ for Zegras +].

Finally as to
"The team has too many players they rely on to just throw a Roberston in the lineup for 20+ games for evaluation."
I wanted him in since last year for development, not eval
I have been thwarted by favoritism to vets

When I believe the herd is in the right I will say so,
but bern does not blindly follow them or anyone else.
Merit.
If necessary, I will thump my chest and call out as is appropriate

 

[SML2]

but "youth does nothing" is a direct function here of not getting fair chances b'c vets are favored.
That bs prejudice has to stop

As to "youth for youth, that only works when..." I disagree to the extent the overriding bottom line is you try to improve by constantly upgrading. We don't deal anybody for the sake of a deal, including youth for youth; but if there is a reasonable perception of profit, you go there, including youth for youth [e.g., Othmann + Berard ++ for Zegras +].

Finally as to
"The team has too many players they rely on to just throw a Roberston in the lineup for 20+ games for evaluation."
I wanted him in since last year for development, not eval
I have been thwarted by favoritism to vets

When I believe the herd is in the right I will say so,
but bern does not blindly follow them or anyone else.
Merit.
If necessary, I will thump my chest and call out as is appropriate

When you are in your win now window, your job is to win. Now. The only time you are going to see contending teams auditioning new talent us when cap choices dictate. You aren't going to pay a vet top dollar to sit and watch. Unfortunately with this flat cap lately, you aren't going to find takers. Everyone has guys they would rather see off their books. So Robertson is going to have to wait, regardless of his development.

 

[eco's bones]

but "youth does nothing" is a direct function here of not getting fair chances b'c vets are favored.
That bs prejudice has to stop

As to "youth for youth, that only works when..." I disagree to the extent the overriding bottom line is you try to improve by constantly upgrading. We don't deal anybody for the sake of a deal, including youth for youth; but if there is a reasonable perception of profit, you go there, including youth for youth [e.g., Othmann + Berard ++ for Zegras +].

Finally as to
"The team has too many players they rely on to just throw a Roberston in the lineup for 20+ games for evaluation."
I wanted him in since last year for development, not eval
I have been thwarted by favoritism to vets

When I believe the herd is in the right I will say so,
but bern does not blindly follow them or anyone else.
Merit.
If necessary, I will thump my chest and call out as is appropriate

What is fair? If we have 20 different people on this thread we'll have 20 different opinions. What you want from a young player is to prove he deserves but even with that when we're talking about better teams quite often an opportunity has to present itself. There's no way I'm screwing with a lineup that's done as well as the Rangers have this year (keeping in mind every team has shit games and/or times they're not playing very well). And right now Robertson is behind both Jones and Mackey and maybe even Scanlin and the current LD---Miller, Lindgren, Gustafsson were the best players in preseason which was to be expected but also why they're all with the big club. And it's not about trying to create more value for what are essentially prospects (by giving them NHL game time) it's about winning games so you maybe make the playoffs and hopefully go from there all the way and if you're lucky enough to have a team that wins a lot you continue going with the guys that have gotten you there.

Robertson has size and tools he just hasn't made the best use of them or at least not yet.

 

[bernmeister]

What is fair? If we have 20 different people on this thread we'll have 20 different opinions. What you want from a young player is to prove he deserves but even with that when we're talking about better teams quite often an opportunity has to present itself. There's no way I'm screwing with a lineup that's done as well as the Rangers have this year (keeping in mind every team has shit games and/or times they're not playing very well). And right now Robertson is behind both Jones and Mackey and maybe even Scanlin and the current LD---Miller, Lindgren, Gustafsson were the best players in preseason which was to be expected but also why they're all with the big club. And it's not about trying to create more value for what are essentially prospects (by giving them NHL game time) it's about winning games so you maybe make the playoffs and hopefully go from there all the way and if you're lucky enough to have a team that wins a lot you continue going with the guys that have gotten you there.

Robertson has size and tools he just hasn't made the best use of them or at least not yet.

you and I share a bent for what is in the best interests of our team

B'c cap is hard/unyielding, youth MUST be developed/interjected.
We have failed to do that; Rs mgmt does not want fans to see growing pains.
But usually, growing pains can not be avoided at pro level, no matter how polished the prospect.
You can better prepare a kid, but at some pt there is no substitute for actual NHL game experience.

Robertson got less chance, a comparatively uneven, unfair break compared to Jones.
While the pendulum should ideally not swing to discriminate vs anyone, including Jones, Robertson no ? has the higher upside. For this reason, no good basis to have not given him better, real opportunity.

I will gripe that we are in the current mess b'c of the above.
I want R mgmt to admit it is wrong and change so we don't have as much of this debacle going forward.

If we gave Robertson the decent support he deserved earlier, we would not now be looking at sink or swim situation with him.

And it ties into asset mgmt.
Should have sold high on Lindgren over a yr ago.
Now, yes we got benefit of his production, but it was not enuf to put us over the top. We need more horses.
Sell him now we get MUCH less than when he had more term and less wear and tear.
If we sold Lindy and gave Robertson full shot, we would have better assets from RL return and had a younger, bigger, cheaper guy out there now.
Unless of course, Robby is a Lias Anderson level bust, but I don't see that is the case.