New Skate Width in Toe Area (too narrow)

[vetrano]

Hi everyone. Great site. The skates buying guide is a great resource. Probably one of the best I have found on the net.

Last week I ordered size 8 and 8.5 CCM Tacks 5092 online both in D width (good return policy). After trying them on size 8 is out as my toes touch at all times and I need to slightly bend my toes. With size 8.5, the tip of my toes just brush the ends when I'm standing.

Last night I wore the size 8.5 D while watching TV. After about 30 or 45 minutes I started to really notice that my big toe and little toe rub the sides of the skate (toe box area). After a while it started to become uncomfortable so I took them off.

The skates feel good everywhere else. Supportive and snug, but no unbearable pressure points.

I am wondering if the current model CCM Tacks (9070 or 9080) are different in width/sizing to the 5092? Specifically in the toe box area? If they are even slightly wider they should work.

Also, what part of the boot width changes between a D and EE width Tack skate? I need a skate that has the width of the size 8.5D Tack 5092 everywhere except the very front where my toes sit where I need just a little more width.

In terms of punching out skates, can they be punched out for width in the toe area?

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[AIREAYE]

This is a common issue that unfortunately doesn't have a common solution.

To answer one of your questions, a EE width skate is wider in the forefoot and midfoot areas, that could potentially alleviate your toecap issue, but you risk having a skate slightly too wide. Perhaps an 8EE may work? You may find the tradeoff between length (as you noticed in the 8D) and width to work out. Keep in mind that as a skate breaks in, you may likely feel slightly more room as the skate foams mold to your foot and your foot sinks in a bit into the boot. Hence, your initial fear of an 8 being short could be compensated by both the above observation, and a slightly wider boot.

There should not be a big difference in fit between the 5092 and 9070/9080, as Tacks has (for now at least) finally settled into CCM's 'medium' and 'anatomical' fit profile, like Bauer Supreme.

If your problem area of the toe is indeed along the plastic toecap or seam between toecap and boot, then you cannot punch out that area.

Finally, another thing to consider is that when you're skating, your knees are bent and for me at least, my toes naturally curl a bit, as opposed to fully splayed out.

 

[vetrano]

I had a chance to stop by a Sportchek today and tried the EE width skates they had in stock. Tacks and Jetspeed in size 8 EE were too short as toes still touched too much. The only 8.5EE they had was a Jetspeed FT360 which is lower end than I want, but I tried it for fit. It was very comfortable all around. The ankle/heel area was only slightly snug compared to everything else I tried.

I am going to see if I can find higher end Jetspeeds (FT370 or FT380) in 8.5EE to try on to see if they fit the same as the FT360. Also I'm still looking for a store that has Tacks in 8.5EE in stock to try.

 

[AIREAYE]

Great! The fit should be the same, but keep in mind you need to bake any pair of skates for the fit to be optimized.

 

[vetrano]

Quick follow up question. How snug should the ankle and heel area be on new skates? Should there be any pressure or am I just looking for contact? I ask as I may go with Jetspeed FT360 in 8EE, but I'm wondering if it is so comfortable for a new skate because it is not tight enough.

 

[AIREAYE]

Your heel should sit snug enough that there should be little to no heel lift, which is the most important. The shape of the ankle area should be snug around the contours of your ankle/ankle bones.

 

[vetrano]

I picked up a used set of jetspeed xtra (basically a FT360 with a few upgrades) in 8.5EE. I figured this will allow me to try a jetspeed skate in 8.5EE on the ice and if it doesn't work I can get another skate and try to flip these for what I paid. Feels very comfortable off the ice (maybe too much), but I noticed my heel lifts up during my first skate in them. I'm going to play around with lacing methods to see if I can get better heel lock.

As for toe caps within CCM skates.... does anyone know if the width of the hard plastic toe cap varies between jetspeed and tacks of the same size? How about between different models of jetspeed (eg FT360 vs FT380)?

Also am I correct in assuming that the heel of a 8.5EE jetspeed will be more narrow than a 8.5EE tack?

 

[AIREAYE]

I picked up a used set of jetspeed xtra (basically a FT360 with a few upgrades) in 8.5EE. I figured this will allow me to try a jetspeed skate in 8.5EE on the ice and if it doesn't work I can get another skate and try to flip these for what I paid. Feels very comfortable off the ice (maybe too much), but I noticed my heel lifts up during my first skate in them. I'm going to play around with lacing methods to see if I can get better heel lock.

As for toe caps within CCM skates.... does anyone know if the width of the hard plastic toe cap varies between jetspeed and tacks of the same size? How about between different models of jetspeed (eg FT360 vs FT380)?

Also am I correct in assuming that the heel of a 8.5EE jetspeed will be more narrow than a 8.5EE tack?

I can't stress the importance of heel lock enough. However, not everything to do with heel lock has to do with heel width. If the heel pocket is technically wider, but, say, deeper, which allows your heel to sit back further in, that may provide better heel lock for example.

There shouldn't be a difference within a family, but here's a good diagram showing the differences you mentioned:

 

[vetrano]

I tried lacing them differently which improved heel lock, but didn't totally eliminate heel movement.

It seems I need a skate with width of a 8.5EE Jetspeed skate at the toes, but as snug as a 8.5D Tacks skate from the front of the arch yo the back of the foot.

 

[AIREAYE]

I tried lacing them differently which improved heel lock, but didn't totally eliminate heel movement.

It seems I need a skate with width of a 8.5EE Jetspeed skate at the toes, but as snug as a 8.5D Tacks skate from the front of the arch yo the back of the foot.

Sounds like you really need to try a Bauer Supreme in EE

 

[vetrano]

Sounds like you really need to try a Bauer Supreme in EE

Thanks for the tip. When I tried a Bauer Supreme (I think it was the S29) in D width it gave me a sharp pain on the inside of my foot just behind my arch where the thick ankle padding ends. Given that CCMs didn't give me any sharp pains in D width I have focused on them. Next time I get to a store I'll try a Supreme in EE width.

 

[AIREAYE]

Interesting; please keep up the updates!

 

[vetrano]

So I tried a few more skates today:

• Tacks 9070 in 8.5D - my toes touch slightly on the sides, but not as much as the 5092 in 8.5D. Still not ideal though.
• Jetspeed FT370 in 8D - toes touch on sides and there is some pressure under my inside ankles (too narrow).
• Supreme S180 in 8.5EE - a little too long, and my heel lifted slightly when I walked in the store.
• Supreme S29 in 8D - too short (toes touch) and there is pressure under my inside ankles.
• S29 in 8EE - best length of all skates I tried and best width at toes. there is slight pressure under my inside left ankle (not noticeable on right foot). The pressure is mostly there only when I stand on the foot. It is from the ankle foam and I'm guessing this will mold to my feet between a heat bake and break-in.
• S27 in 8EE - fit very similar/identical to S29 in this size.
• S27 in 8.5EE - a little too long. Did not spend much time in them.

How much will the foam/padding at the back of the skate around the ankles compress with a heat mold and break-in?

I ask as Bauer Supreme in 8EE have the best fit at the front of my foot, and the skate almost sucks my heel in as I put it on. My only hesitation is the pressure I get on my right foot about an inch below my inside ankle. If I can get some assurance that it will "give" with break-in and won't push on that spot on my foot I'll go with Bauer Supreme in 8EE. Just need to figure out which model/how much I want to spend.

I also think I need to try a Supreme in a 8.5D to see if i get proper length and some relief under my ankles. I suspect I'll have some pressure under my ankles so my question about if I can expect the foam to give during baking and break-in will apply here too.

 

[AIREAYE]

Excellent break down, this really helps me over the internet try and figure this out.

So overall it feels like Supreme 8EE should be the right fit. Yes, the foams will give and mold to your foot when baked! Here are a few supplementary suggestions to a regular bake:
1) When undergoing the first bake, put the skates on normally and tie them firmly as you would normally. While still warm, keep 'massaging' and pushing in that hot spot with your hands. After the skates are cooled and sharpened, wait a few hours at home and put them on (if you walk, have protective skate guards!) and see if it's better.
2) Bake it again! After skating a few times on the first bake, take it back in for a second round to accelerate break-in.
3) If that hot spot persists, have the store punch out that area. Fairly common procedure that I used to do all the time. This should be a permanent fix.

 

[vetrano]

Great advice. Would you bother trying a supreme in a 8.5D and compare to a 8EE? Im guessing the 8D should be the right length and I would guess it would be slightly wider than a 8D at the heel.

 

[AIREAYE]

It's never a bad idea to try of course, but my take is that it's unlikely to be what you're looking for, as the shape of the ankle foams won't be different than 8EE necessarily, after break-in, you will find too much length, and that Bauer uses toe caps sized to the full size such that 8.5 skates uses size 8 toecaps and not 9 so it may not be wider.

 

[vetrano]

Is it possible for a properly fitted new skate to be too comfortable before baking and break-in? I ask as I tried another 8.5EE Supreme S180 which I would describe as very comfortable. No pressure points anywhere. It feels like it is already broken in. Toes don't touch on the sides which seems to be my big problem. I don't notice any heel life when I walk or squat with them on. I'm just wondering if break-in could allow them to open up more and allow my heel to start slipping.

I also tried the S180 in 8.5D which is fairly snug everywhere without hurting, but I have 2 concerns. My toes slightly touch the sides of the toe cap when I'm standing in them (my toes are not squished, but they are just touching the sides). Is this considered acceptable? Also for some reason there is too much pressure on only the top of my right foot where the tongue and toe cap meet. I'm not sure if there is a difference between skates or if my feet are slightly different. My left foot has just enough space there without the extreme pressure.

Other skates I tried are Jetspeed FT380 and FT370 in 8EE and my toes touch too much on the front and sides of both.

 

[AIREAYE]

Is it possible for a properly fitted new skate to be too comfortable before baking and break-in? I ask as I tried another 8.5EE Supreme S180 which I would describe as very comfortable. No pressure points anywhere. It feels like it is already broken in. Toes don't touch on the sides which seems to be my big problem. I don't notice any heel life when I walk or squat with them on. I'm just wondering if break-in could allow them to open up more and allow my heel to start slipping. Unlikely, this sounds good!

I also tried the S180 in 8.5D which is fairly snug everywhere without hurting, but I have 2 concerns. My toes slightly touch the sides of the toe cap when I'm standing in them (my toes are not squished, but they are just touching the sides). Is this considered acceptable? Yes Also for some reason there is too much pressure on only the top of my right foot where the tongue and toe cap meet. Not a good sign I'm not sure if there is a difference between skates or if my feet are slightly different. Very common for feet to be different. My right is wider than my left for example. My left foot has just enough space there without the extreme pressure.

Other skates I tried are Jetspeed FT380 and FT370 in 8EE and my toes touch too much on the front and sides of both.

 

[vetrano]

I spent more time with the Supreme S180 in sizes 8.5D and 8.5EE last night (store has a good return policy if you dont sharpen/bake skates).

I think the 8.5EE is so comfortable because they might be too big. Unless I crank on the laces my heel slips when I walk in them/go on my tippy toes. I feel like I can move my mid foot and toes around in the vertical direction more than I should be able to.
Given these use curve composite, will baking them cause the boot wrap around my foot better if I tie them tightly during the bake? If so I imagine I will not need to crank the laces once this is done.

The boot of the 8.5D wrap my feet perfectly and are snug everywhere but without pain anywhere. The toe cap touches the side of my big toe but doesn't put pressure/squeeze it in. The only problem is the height of the toe cap where it meets the tongue... there is minimal/no space to the top of my foot and after wearing them for 15 minutes or so I can tell it puts too much pressure on that spot. If I could push it up a 1/4" it would be perfect.

 

[althoma1]

A skate does not get smaller with a bake. You can make a skate that's a little too small work by baking it, stretching it, punching it and breaking it in, but you cannot make a skate that's too big smaller. When in doubt; go with the smaller size.

Your instincts are telling you that the 8.5EE is too long; and it sounds like you're right. Drop down to an 8EE.

Ideally, you want a skate that fits as tight as possible without causing serious pressure points or pain. Your toes touching the sides of the toe box isn't a problem as long as it's not painful. From your experiences trying on skates in the store, it seems like you should be in an 8EE Supreme and not 8.5. I'd take both the 8.5EE and 8.5D back and get a pair of 8EE Supremes to spend some time with. The skates should feel tight; especially when they're brand new. If they feel like a broken in running shoe right off the bat; it's highly likely they're too big.

Oh, and you felt the 8EE Jetspeeds were too tight in the toe box. That's understandable; the Jetspeeds have a narrow toe box. The Supreme EE's are wider in the toe box than the Jetspeeds and you should have more room in those (and you already tried on S29 and S27 in 8EE that seemed to fit you very well).

 

[vetrano]

A skate does not get smaller with a bake. You can make a skate that's a little too small work by baking it, stretching it, punching it and breaking it in, but you cannot make a skate that's too big smaller. When in doubt; go with the smaller size.

Maybe I didn't word my question properly. If the laces are tied tightly during the bake, pulling the two sides of the boot together around my foot, will it cause the boot opening to "close off" permanently (will the opening I slide my foot into be smaller because the skate cooled with the sides pulled closer together)? I understand that the skate does not get smaller during a bake. I guess I'm wondering how much the composite materials conform to the "mold" (your foot) during a bake.

Your instincts are telling you that the 8.5EE is too long; and it sounds like you're right. Drop down to an 8EE.

The 8.5EE wasn't too long, it was slightly wide and there was extra volume above my foot.

I really wish that the stores near me had some expertise instead of part time helpers good stock of different model skates in my size. I guess this is the problem for skate shopping toward the "end" of the season.

 

[althoma1]

Maybe I didn't word my question properly. If the laces are tied tightly during the bake, pulling the two sides of the boot together around my foot, will it cause the boot opening to "close off" permanently (will the opening I slide my foot into be smaller because the skate cooled with the sides pulled closer together)? I understand that the skate does not get smaller during a bake. I guess I'm wondering how much the composite materials conform to the "mold" (your foot) during a bake.


The 8.5EE wasn't too long, it was slightly wide and there was extra volume above my foot.

I really wish that the stores near me had some expertise instead of part time helpers good stock of different model skates in my size. I guess this is the problem for skate shopping toward the "end" of the season.

In an earlier post you suggested that 8EE Bauer S29 skates were the best lengthwise that you tried on. That's why I thought the 8.5EE was too long. You can easily test for length on your own. Completely take out the laces, pull out the tongue and put your foot in the skates with thin skating socks and push it all the way forward so that your longest toe is brushing the cap. Then take a standard pencil or Bic pen and try to fit it behind your heel. If it won't fit all the way to the bottom then it's the ideal performance length. If it fits, but is a very tight squeeze you could go down a half a size or get away with that size if you prefer your toes a little off the cap. If you can wiggle the pen around then they're definitely too long.

Keep in mind that when you break in the skates, the foams compress and you gain a few mm in length. That is why I prefer skates to be on the shorter/tighter side when new, but it shouldn't be so tight that you're having vice like pressure or so short you need to curl your toes. Mild pressure and your toes against the cap with your toes flat is Ok though.

Baking helps break in the skates faster and expand the skate around areas with a bit of pressure (more severe pressure would require punching or stretching or a different fit). Baking skates doesn't shrink them around your feet. It can help the facing come over and wrap your foot a little better, but it doesn't remove existing negative space.

With some skates, Easton Makos and VH/True, the skates will change shape around your foot, but with these skates it's generally very hard to get your foot in before baking...they start off too tight and then form around your foot. With other brands and models it's more about helping with break in; so you want something that is snug with a little pressure, but fits pretty well before baking.

 

[EightyOne]

I have fairly rectangular feet---wide toes and pretty tall instep.

Just got some Bauer Nexus skates....try some if you can find some.

After having what was essentially a Supreme style fit (old Reebok skates) that were pinching all around the middle of my feet and causing numbness after a few minutes. I put up with this for many seasons lol. Especially painful was the lacebite on my instep no matter how loose I tied em.

Also, AFAIK, you should NOT tie the laces tight after the bake...just snug (ie: not as tight as if you were to jump on the ice)..and don't walk around, just sit with them on. Then give em a day to rest before use.

I think your search for a boot that fits your forefoot width is getting you too wide out back to get good heel lock. You might need to get away from the EE sizing and into something that is wider to begin with like the Nexus.

I did the same mistake before. Got skates that were large just to fit my foot but then ended up being too long and not working right.