New-School Red Wings.

[Rzombo4 prez]

This team needs to play a trap until every player remembers what it is like to play defense. If you are only going to score one goal a game, you might as well trap.

 

[Iowa Wingsfan]

The most depressing part of this team for me is that it will not be much different next year.

 

[joe89]

As long as we don't sign some outrageous contracts, the transition will at least only be slowed down, not hindered. I mean Cleary/Bert/Sammy/Cola/White, you name it, are only on 1-2 year deals, stop gap deals. It slows the youth movement, but it doesn't hurt the team short or long term. It's obvious Kenny hopes them to push this current core through a last playoff run. I think most of us don't agree with that, but it seems obvious.

All youngsters are on ELCs right now but they won't be forever. When Smith, Nyquist are on one-way deals next year and Cleary, Miller etc. come off the books the cards are starting to play themselves out. The year after that Tatar and Ferraro will be on one-way deals while Bert and Sammy come off the books. ETC. It's a (too) slow process Kenny is running here but it's going to happen.

 

[BinCookin]

Rebuild and make it as quick and painless as possible. 2-3 years before they are a playoff team, and 4-5 years before they are contending for the cup.

Rebuilds do not work this quickly. It is more like last place team for 4 years, then finally your picks start playing and 3-4 years you climb back into a decent team. If you want a 4 year rebuild, you should be ok with an 7-8 year rebuild.

I agree but Holland doesn't. It is probably going to be a long, drawn out TML/CGY type of situation. Keep signing tweeners to keep us competitive on a game to game basis with very little emphasis on coddling prospects and filling them with confidence. Just kind of "if you can't produce in a few shifts the way we like, you're on the 3rd/4th line or in the AHL". I think a lot of the problem stems from Babcock and Holland disagreeing on what needs to be done. I'm picturing a Moneyball passive-aggressive relationship situation with Brad Pitt and PSH.

TML/CGY are ridiculously deluded. They refuse to rebuild while missing the playoffs for 3-4 years first.
TML finally decided to rebuild 3-4 years ago, and started trading 1st round picks...
CGY has yet to realize they are garbage.

Det fans are much more aware. But lets be honest, our team is much much better. We have had something like (don't quote me exactly) but 8 straight 100+ pt seasons? Holland is trying to extend our era of dominance. He is trying to keep the playoff streak going on the hopes we have a miracle year and pull off a cup with Z and D having AMAZING seasons. This is possible. Most of us see the writing on the wall, but lets not be so fast to embrace a rebuild. wait until we miss the playoffs just once. This year, we look pretty bad. It is the worst I have ever seen this team (I am a fan since 1994). The retirement of Lidstrom, Rafalski and stuart leaving are big losses. 2 of those were just this past off season. For those saying we have been garbage for the last 3 years, wake up spoiled people. we had 100+ pt seasons, we still had a good team. This year is the FIRST year we have looked less than dominant. This is the first year we are actually playing bad hockey. Lets not pretend we are calgary or TML. If we refuse to rebuild for the NEXT 4 years... then we are those teams. (P.S. if you want to argue with me about how our team OBVIOUSLY needed a rebuild for the last 3 years...you are spoiled, look at our "vegas" odds each year to win the last 3 years, we have been in the top 25% to 30%)

I think there are some fans secretly hoping we lose games, so we can do a rebuild. I see this as a moot point. We will be forced to start rebuilding this year. I feel Mike Babcock is playing the players Holland signed. He is playing veterans to SHOW holland what us fans already see. That the team is not good enough. Drop the vets who are not stars. Play young kids. Babcock is showcasing Holland our team for BETTER or for POORER. And if we fail, Holland wont say it is because we relied on kids, it will be because our "good" players didn't perform. Saying Babcock doesn't see what you see is dumb. He sees it. He is just less reactive. 2 games does not PROVE a crappy quincey. 15 games does!

 

[PullHard]

TML/CGY are ridiculously deluded. They refuse to rebuild while missing the playoffs for 3-4 years first.
TML finally decided to rebuild 3-4 years ago, and started trading 1st round picks...
CGY has yet to realize they are garbage.

Det fans are much more aware. But lets be honest, our team is much much better. We have had something like (don't quote me exactly) but 8 straight 100+ pt seasons? Holland is trying to extend our era of dominance. He is trying to keep the playoff streak going on the hopes we have a miracle year and pull off a cup with Z and D having AMAZING seasons. This is possible. Most of us see the writing on the wall, but lets not be so fast to embrace a rebuild. wait until we miss the playoffs just once. This year, we look pretty bad. It is the worst I have ever seen this team (I am a fan since 1994). The retirement of Lidstrom, Rafalski and stuart leaving are big losses. 2 of those were just this past off season. For those saying we have been garbage for the last 3 years, wake up spoiled people. we had 100+ pt seasons, we still had a good team. This year is the FIRST year we have looked less than dominant. This is the first year we are actually playing bad hockey. Lets not pretend we are calgary or TML. If we refuse to rebuild for the NEXT 4 years... then we are those teams. (P.S. if you want to argue with me about how our team OBVIOUSLY needed a rebuild for the last 3 years...you are spoiled, look at our "vegas" odds each year to win the last 3 years, we have been in the top 25% to 30%)

I think there are some fans secretly hoping we lose games, so we can do a rebuild. I see this as a moot point. We will be forced to start rebuilding this year. I feel Mike Babcock is playing the players Holland signed. He is playing veterans to SHOW holland what us fans already see. That the team is not good enough. Drop the vets who are not stars. Play young kids. Babcock is showcasing Holland our team for BETTER or for POORER. And if we fail, Holland wont say it is because we relied on kids, it will be because our "good" players didn't perform. Saying Babcock doesn't see what you see is dumb. He sees it. He is just less reactive. 2 games does not PROVE a crappy quincey. 15 games does!

Yes, when we had Lidstrom we were competitive. Probably not Cup winning good since '09, but we had a shot to win a round or two, and if we were lucky maybe more. But is our team much better than the Leafs now? At least they have youth and should only be getting better. From here on out we have a long road of losing awesome players like Kronwall, Zetterberg and Datsyuk. I know we had a competitive team these last few years, but if Kenny was smart he would've been flipping a guy like Brad Stuart at the deadline last year for a prospect instead of having him play here for another month or two. Lidstrom wasn't going to be around forever, it was time to move on, but he didn't. Instead he has been padding our losses with halfway useful players to ease the losses of Rafalski, Hudler, Stuart, etc. (you can't replace Nick).

What does this achieve? It has nothing with me being spoiled, it is just an observation that we are basically killing time being somewhat mediocre instead of being smart and letting players who will actually be here for the long haul get some experience and learn from our good players while they are still here. What need does Sammy fill? Why can't Nyquist play in the top 6 every night learning from Z and Dats and Fil?

Yes, good point about Babcock basically saying "hey Ken, Miller-Abby-Cleary is our 2nd line right now. Good job, pal!" I never thought of it that way. But that coaching approach and his comments seem to coincide a bit. I agree with you on that one.

edit: I think the points I bolded may come back to bite you by the end of this season I hope I'm wrong.

 

[A1Portable]

It's a reference to how fans are slowly starting to feel about the Wings and the situation they they are in.

I spoke to two Toronto fans tonight before the game, and they told me to be prepared to have a lot of sleepless nights. I told them, i was already an insomniac from the last three years.

We fans, but more importantly the Wings management, need to face the brute reality that this Wings team is simply not a contender. All the talk about switching up the lines and tinkering with the D pairings will do about much good as rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The Wings need to undergo a fundamental rebuild before they will be a contender again.

 

[BinCookin]

Yes, when we had Lidstrom we were competitive. Probably not Cup winning good since '09, but we had a shot to win a round or two, and if we were lucky maybe more. But is our team much better than the Leafs now? At least they have youth and should only be getting better. From here on out we have a long road of losing awesome players like Kronwall, Zetterberg and Datsyuk. I know we had a competitive team these last few years, but if Kenny was smart he would've been flipping a guy like Brad Stuart at the deadline last year for a prospect instead of having him play here for another month or two. Lidstrom wasn't going to be around forever, it was time to move on, but he didn't. Instead he has been padding our losses with halfway useful players to ease the losses of Rafalski, Hudler, Stuart, etc. (you can't replace Nick).

What does this achieve? It has nothing with me being spoiled, it is just an observation that we are basically killing time being somewhat mediocre instead of being smart and letting players who will actually be here for the long haul get some experience and learn from our good players while they are still here. What need does Sammy fill? Why can't Nyquist play in the top 6 every night learning from Z and Dats and Fil?

Yes, good point about Babcock basically saying "hey Ken, Miller-Abby-Cleary is our 2nd line right now. Good job, pal!" I never thought of it that way. But that coaching approach and his comments seem to coincide a bit. I agree with you on that one.

edit: I think the points I bolded may come back to bite you by the end of this season I hope I'm wrong.

My point with these statements I made are simply to those fans that think we have been garbage for the last 3 seasons are spoiled. To your first bolded statement (A team that can win two rounds and maybe get lucky to get to the cup) - That is a contender. We had 100+ pt seasons. We qualify as a good team. Maybe not the best but still good. Thus you do not rebuild a good team.

Alot of fans here are being OVERLY critical and exhagerating how bad things were (for the previous seasons 2010-2012). We have been reducing but the main key is our recent loss of talent and the significant drop in play. I would say this is the first year where we might miss the playoffs or not be a contender. Thus now is the first year we should be seeing holland take a hard look at our young kids and give them some time. To say he has run this team VERY poorly for the last 3 years is not being fair. My point is we were more than competitive and thus signing older but effective FA's was worthwhile. If this season continues as I have seen it (3 games is a VERY SMALL sample size but) then it is time for change.
Change to more kids, change to trading away Bert/Cleary/Samuelsson.

Thesis: Now is the year to make changes. Saying Holland should have seen this 3 years ago is more 20/20 hindsight reflection than real advice because we COULD have won cups during that time, and getting rid of the players some people suggest would LIKELY have reduced those chances.


As to the second bolded statement. "Things in toronto are looking up". I refer back to my statement that team rebuilds take time. I think the timings have been fair. Our team will convert from a contender to a "prospect hopeful" team once we get bad. This is the first year we have looked bad, thus the first year we should start making changes.

To say we have ignored problems for way too long, short changes the fact that we COULD have won, and that playing Nyquist and Tatar 3 years ago was not viable. NOW they are viable. And NOW is when we need them.

I totally agree with the "I'd prefer to do poorly with Nyq and Tatar than with 35+ vets that have no upside" I think our GM by game 20 this year or near the deadline will have the info he needs to determine if we are no longer a contender this year. And if that happens, THEN you will see the changes alot of us are preaching. But not before then. And its this patience that possibly may have kept our team strong in previous years, but we have finally run out of talent to keep us elite. We have fallen to "normal" lol.

 

[newfy]

The thing is, you can blame him.

Not really. Babcock doesnt have that much say in the players on his team. Its a shame because hes one of the best in the business. Holland wouldn't allow him to keep Smith last year and Nyquist cant fit on the team this year because of the guys Holland signed without people on IR

Nyquist's AHL numbers before jumping to the Wings, assuming he's up full-time now:
103GP, 37-65-102

He started in the AHL at 21.

Here are Hudler's AHL stats from the beginning of the season he turned 21 until the end of his AHL career:
128GP, 48-83-131

Hmm. And Hudler was actually 20 at the start of his 128 games; his birthday is in January.

Care to revisit your position?

Hudler played on much higher scoring teams back then, still had similar production to Nyquist and didn't have close to the same defensive game that Nyquist does.

Nyquist is better and definitely more dominant out there then Hudler was. Bob Kaiser thinks Kronwall might be the only player since hes been with the Griffs that gives Nyquist a run for best Griffin

 

[PullHard]

My point with these statements I made are simply to those fans that think we have been garbage for the last 3 seasons are spoiled. To your first bolded statement (A team that can win two rounds and maybe get lucky to get to the cup) - That is a contender. We had 100+ pt seasons. We qualify as a good team. Maybe not the best but still good. Thus you do not rebuild a good team.

Alot of fans here are being OVERLY critical and exhagerating how bad things were (for the previous seasons 2010-2012). We have been reducing but the main key is our recent loss of talent and the significant drop in play. I would say this is the first year where we might miss the playoffs or not be a contender. Thus now is the first year we should be seeing holland take a hard look at our young kids and give them some time. To say he has run this team VERY poorly for the last 3 years is not being fair. My point is we were more than competitive and thus signing older but effective FA's was worthwhile. If this season continues as I have seen it (3 games is a VERY SMALL sample size but) then it is time for change.
Change to more kids, change to trading away Bert/Cleary/Samuelsson.

Thesis: Now is the year to make changes. Saying Holland should have seen this 3 years ago is more 20/20 hindsight reflection than real advice because we COULD have won cups during that time, and getting rid of the players some people suggest would LIKELY have reduced those chances.


As to the second bolded statement. "Things in toronto are looking up". I refer back to my statement that team rebuilds take time. I think the timings have been fair. Our team will convert from a contender to a "prospect hopeful" team once we get bad. This is the first year we have looked bad, thus the first year we should start making changes.

To say we have ignored problems for way too long, short changes the fact that we COULD have won, and that playing Nyquist and Tatar 3 years ago was not viable. NOW they are viable. And NOW is when we need them.

I totally agree with the "I'd prefer to do poorly with Nyq and Tatar than with 35+ vets that have no upside" I think our GM by game 20 this year or near the deadline will have the info he needs to determine if we are no longer a contender this year. And if that happens, THEN you will see the changes alot of us are preaching. But not before then. And its this patience that possibly may have kept our team strong in previous years, but we have finally run out of talent to keep us elite. We have fallen to "normal" lol.

I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one. Not playing Nyquist and Smith (even Kindl) ahead of guys like Commodore, Salei, Bertuzzi, etc. was a very, very silly thing to do. It would have had little impact whether they were getting their feet wet during the regular season over those types of players. Bertuzzi is our ringer in the SO, let Goose play top 6 mins and let Bert grind it out on the 3rd line, he doesn't need those top line minutes, etc. I fear that Lidstrom didn't mentor/ rub off on Kindl enough, and Smith at all. You can't replace that kind of leadership and experience.

 

[BinCookin]

I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one. Not playing Nyquist and Smith (even Kindl) ahead of guys like Commodore, Salei, Bertuzzi, etc. was a very, very silly thing to do. It would have had little impact whether they were getting their feet wet during the regular season over those types of players. Bertuzzi is our ringer in the SO, let Goose play top 6 mins and let Bert grind it out on the 3rd line, he doesn't need those top line minutes, etc. I fear that Lidstrom didn't mentor/ rub off on Kindl enough, and Smith at all. You can't replace that kind of leadership and experience.

disagree on some points, agree on others

I wish smith had had some time with Lidstrom. It is sad he did not.

Nyquist last year could have been on the team (agree), but not 2 years ago or 3 years ago (not your statement, but others here).

I do not like how many forwards we have signed recently (agree).

but 2 years ago (before we signed Sammy/Bert extension) I think Bert/Cleary were producing well.

My point is last season a few mistakes by holland, this season more mistakes. I am just saying 2 years ago and 3 years ago is going too far. I agree with all your points for last season and especially this season on sammy/bert extension. they should be on the 3rd line at best, and then trade off the extras. Either way too many forwards, too old, not enough youth to really drive the passion on the team. Just saying our teams problems are not 3 years old and counting more like 1 season old.

So i basically agree with all your points, but some other posters here suggest we have been garbage for much longer, and they are wrong.

 

[aar000n]

it seems we don't have the players to run the puck possession that we like to run. While this is upsetting maybe we could run some other system? I hate to say this but Babcock ran a trap style when he was with the mighty ducks. Maybe we should think more of a trap type of style.

 

[PullHard]

disagree on some points, agree on others

I wish smith had had some time with Lidstrom. It is sad he did not.

Nyquist last year could have been on the team (agree), but not 2 years ago or 3 years ago (not your statement, but others here).

I do not like how many forwards we have signed recently (agree).

but 2 years ago (before we signed Sammy/Bert extension) I think Bert/Cleary were producing well.

My point is last season a few mistakes by holland, this season more mistakes. I am just saying 2 years ago and 3 years ago is going too far. I agree with all your points for last season and especially this season on sammy/bert extension. they should be on the 3rd line at best, and then trade off the extras. Either way too many forwards, too old, not enough youth to really drive the passion on the team. Just saying our teams problems are not 3 years old and counting more like 1 season old.

So i basically agree with all your points, but some other posters here suggest we have been garbage for much longer, and they are wrong.

Yeah totally agree. To not push again in '09-'10 would've been foolish as we had been good enough to go the distance the prior two years. But wasn't that the season we were out of the playoffs in early/ mid February and then turned it on to finish in 4th or 5th in the West? And then had to take the Coyotes to 7 and then got mopped by the Sharks?

Looking back, that was probably the closest thing to a "turning point", but it was more like Lidstrom's time was up as the best in the league and he was more of just one of the best, but had obviously lost a little bit of his spark. So easy to say all of this in hindsight of course. I agree that to not have kept going then would've been a missed opportunity, but now it seems like it all happened so fast. It seems like 18 months ago or so is when the kids should've really jumped on board. We can only hope that Holland and company realize this ASAP.

 

[Marky9er]

it seems we don't have the players to run the puck possession that we like to run. While this is upsetting maybe we could run some other system? I hate to say this but Babcock ran a trap style when he was with the mighty ducks. Maybe we should think more of a trap type of style.

id be worried the roster isn't suited for that either, and moreso that we would be taking a very large amount of penalties.

 

[Henkka]

it seems we don't have the players to run the puck possession that we like to run. While this is upsetting maybe we could run some other system? I hate to say this but Babcock ran a trap style when he was with the mighty ducks. Maybe we should think more of a trap type of style.

I thought the same few days ago. They were playing much defensively at 2009-10 season, when the injury bug hit in the cap-depleted roster. Lot more simple hockey and low-scoring games. Howard was also great as a rookie.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

My point with these statements I made are simply to those fans that think we have been garbage for the last 3 seasons are spoiled. To your first bolded statement (A team that can win two rounds and maybe get lucky to get to the cup) - That is a contender. We had 100+ pt seasons. We qualify as a good team. Maybe not the best but still good. Thus you do not rebuild a good team.

Alot of fans here are being OVERLY critical and exhagerating how bad things were (for the previous seasons 2010-2012). We have been reducing but the main key is our recent loss of talent and the significant drop in play. I would say this is the first year where we might miss the playoffs or not be a contender. Thus now is the first year we should be seeing holland take a hard look at our young kids and give them some time. To say he has run this team VERY poorly for the last 3 years is not being fair. My point is we were more than competitive and thus signing older but effective FA's was worthwhile. If this season continues as I have seen it (3 games is a VERY SMALL sample size but) then it is time for change.
Change to more kids, change to trading away Bert/Cleary/Samuelsson.

Thesis: Now is the year to make changes. Saying Holland should have seen this 3 years ago is more 20/20 hindsight reflection than real advice because we COULD have won cups during that time, and getting rid of the players some people suggest would LIKELY have reduced those chances.


As to the second bolded statement. "Things in toronto are looking up". I refer back to my statement that team rebuilds take time. I think the timings have been fair. Our team will convert from a contender to a "prospect hopeful" team once we get bad. This is the first year we have looked bad, thus the first year we should start making changes.

To say we have ignored problems for way too long, short changes the fact that we COULD have won, and that playing Nyquist and Tatar 3 years ago was not viable. NOW they are viable. And NOW is when we need them.

I totally agree with the "I'd prefer to do poorly with Nyq and Tatar than with 35+ vets that have no upside" I think our GM by game 20 this year or near the deadline will have the info he needs to determine if we are no longer a contender this year. And if that happens, THEN you will see the changes alot of us are preaching. But not before then. And its this patience that possibly may have kept our team strong in previous years, but we have finally run out of talent to keep us elite. We have fallen to "normal" lol.

Needing some luck to win in hockey is a given, the Wings needed an extraordinary amount of luck to win the cup the last few years. It's not realistic to say the Wings were contenders last year just because they made the playoffs.

This team has been trending downward every year, and this season is where we see the straw break the camels back.

Posters on this board would say "This is the year Holland begins to fix the team." Unfortunately he does the exact same thing and makes up a bunch of excuses.

I didnt start posting until 2011, but i know there were several posters on here who were criticizing Holland before it became obvious that he was doing a bad job. He has failed this team.

This team not making the playoffs isnt what scares me. What scares me, is Ken Holland coming out and saying injuries and a shortened season were the only reason why this team failed. The writing was on the wall about this this team well before the season started.

 

[BinCookin]

It all depends how you use the word "contenders"

I consider about 10 teams a year to be true "contenders" with 3-4 "favorites to win the cup"

This year's favorites are PIT, NYR, CHI, BOS, and LAK (mostly since they are the current champs). I think there is a chance LAK don't make the playoffs or end 6-8th this year. Does that mean they are not contenders? those 5 teams are the favorites but the contenders also include:
St.L, Van, Min, Det, Phi, SJ. (p.s. i did not make up these choices, these are the vegas odds)

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/

Anyway I think all of these teams are contenders.

'11-'12 season odds are here:

http://www.statfox.com/statfoxnews/news~articleid~8968~h~Odds-to-win-2012-NHL-Stanley-Cup.htm

(Detroit is listed as tied for 3rd/4th to win) - That puts them in the favorites category

'10-'11 season odds are here:

http://www.oddsshark.com/nhl/canucks-favored-win-2011-stanley-cup

(Detroit is listed as 6th best team) - puts them as contenders, but probably not the favorites (top 5)

'09-'10 season odds are here:

http://www.capperspicks.com/blog/nhl/odds-to-win-2010-stanley-cup-60410/

(Detroit listed as #1 favorite to win cup as season start)


IMO our team has been getting weaker for a few years now. But we have been a "contender" according to these sites for the last 3 seasons.

The trend is 1, 6, 3, 9th for odds of winning. (1, 6, 3 all contenders, this year 9th barely a contender).

Just saying we had a chance to win.

Not at all saying I agree with what Holland has been doing. We have been contenders DESPITE holland, not because of holland (opinion). I agree with alot of you guys about our team BUT I also think we may be overstating how bad its been the last 3 years

 

[BinCookin]

What scares me, is Ken Holland coming out and saying injuries and a shortened season were the only reason why this team failed. The writing was on the wall about this this team well before the season started.

I really hope he doesn't do that. I don't think he will.
We will all know better if he tries to say something like that

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I dont care what Vegas says the odds are. Wings are gonna get better odds because they have been so good for so long and Vegas understands how people like to bet. Vegas wants people to bet on the Wings, just like they want people to bet on the Patriots.

The team had no chance in hell of winning the cup the last few years. Watch the team and don't look at what Vegas is telling you.

 

[fimoknete]

We fans, but more importantly the Wings management, need to face the brute reality that this Wings team is simply not a contender. All the talk about switching up the lines and tinkering with the D pairings will do about much good as rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The Wings need to undergo a fundamental rebuild before they will be a contender again.

finally the most ppl here start to realize what i pointed to 2 years ago and got flamed for that.

we are simply not a contender anymore. so why are we not starting a rebuilt? there is no reason to be mediocre for the next 25 years.

get rid of aprox 10 player and fill with rookies and trade players.


the x need to be fixed somehow:

xxx - Datsyuk - xxx
Filppula - Zetterberg- xxx
Franzen - xxx - Brunner
Eaves - Helm - Tootoo
Miller

xxx - xxx
Kronwall - Ericsson
Smith - Huskins
Kindl

 

[fimoknete]

Needing some luck to win in hockey is a given, the Wings needed an extraordinary amount of luck to win the cup the last few years. It's not realistic to say the Wings were contenders last year just because they made the playoffs.

This team has been trending downward every year, and this season is where we see the straw break the camels back.

Posters on this board would say "This is the year Holland begins to fix the team." Unfortunately he does the exact same thing and makes up a bunch of excuses.

I didnt start posting until 2011, but i know there were several posters on here who were criticizing Holland before it became obvious that he was doing a bad job. He has failed this team.

This team not making the playoffs isnt what scares me. What scares me, is Ken Holland coming out and saying injuries and a shortened season were the only reason why this team failed. The writing was on the wall about this this team well before the season started.

all of this is the result of this "never change a winning team" ********. you better adjust during your success not in the middle of the decline. now the transition will be more challenging. i dont think we will see the wings as a contender in the next 15 years after datsyuk is gone because i dont see our prospects as good as the most ppl here are doing. but on the other hand the ppl here found the team still ok 3 years ago. i am curious what the ppl will say about nyquist, tartar or smith in 3 years.

 

[Run the Jewels]

finally the most ppl here start to realize what i pointed to 2 years ago and got flamed for that.

we are simply not a contender anymore. so why are we not starting a rebuilt? there is no reason to be mediocre for the next 25 years.

get rid of aprox 10 player and fill with rookies and trade players.


the x need to be fixed somehow:

xxx - Datsyuk - xxx
Filppula - Zetterberg- xxx
Franzen - xxx - Brunner
Eaves - Helm - Tootoo
Miller

xxx - xxx
Kronwall - Ericsson
Smith - Huskins
Kindl

Make no mistake, we are buying Franzen out. There is no way they are keeping that contract on the books for 7 more seasons.

 

[Xvash2]

Make no mistake, we are buying Franzen out. There is no way they are keeping that contract on the books for 7 more seasons.

Trade his ass before he loses any more value.

 

[Crymson]

Shoot me now............please.

Sure. Anything to shut up your constant negativity. Are you a crotchety old man, by any chance?

 

[Henkka]

This doesn't look like we are going to Calgary mediocrity. It looks more than we are going to tank, and tank hard.

What if Holland was smarter than anyone in here and did this on purpose?

Just some thoughts.

 

[BinCookin]

I dont care what Vegas says the odds are. Wings are gonna get better odds because they have been so good for so long and Vegas understands how people like to bet. Vegas wants people to bet on the Wings, just like they want people to bet on the Patriots.

The team had no chance in hell of winning the cup the last few years. Watch the team and don't look at what Vegas is telling you.

I can think of no other way to point out the fact that our team has been "good"

on a sliding scale of 1-10 (1 being bad, 10 very good)

2008 Cup winners (team =10)
2009 Cup finalists (team =10)
2010 2nd round exit (team =8/9) (2nd most man games lost to injury)
2011 2nd round exit (team =8) (3rd seed in the western conference for playoffs, we lost to the 2nd seed SJ) (Rafalski retires)
2012 1st round exit (team =7/8) (5th seed, but CHI, ST.L and NASH and DET were at one point all 4 in the top 8 teams in the NHL) (Lidstrom / Holmstrom retires)

My point is we are spoiled fans. We have had an amazing run for the last 20 years. We have been getting worse yes. have we been contenders this whole time - yes. were we the ONE and ONLY favourite each year? No - we were only the favorite in 2009.

I really one have 1 point. We have been alot better than some fans around here imply.

"no chance of winning the cup for a few years" - few = 3.
so basically you are upset we didnt win the western conference the past 3 seasons. Nothing but the BEST team in hockey is a contender right?

Exception: LAK (2012 SC champion) (8th seed); 14th during the season
BOS (2011 SC champion) (3rd seed; WSH 1st seed, PHI 2nd seed, PIT 4th seed); 6th during the season. - Det was 5th, one point ahead of them. (if you want to go by season points, Pit 5th, Det 6th, Bos 7th)

I am just saying Det had more than "No chance of winning"
Sorry we were not the 1st seed, or COMPLETE favourite.
This is what I mean by spoiled.

Could Holland have done something different? Yes
Could it have made this team better? Yes/Maybe
Do I agree with everything the team does? No

Has Detroit sucked the last 3 seasons though? NO NO NO
Try being a fan of another team for 1 second, and realize how unreasonable you are being.

I get your point though. "We are no longer the favourite"
But you use the word "Contenders"

So by your definition this year's contenders are??? WHOM? how many teams are contenders?
I suggest the top 5-8 teams are usually contenders and on that definition detroit has been a contender every year. Season finish in points: 7th last year, 6th the year before, 7th the year before that, 3rd (2009) beaten by pittsburgh (9th), 1st seed (2008) - Cup Winners.

We may have fallen from Amazing to just very good.
This year we have fallen further. But to suggest the fall happened at the start of the 2010 season and that we have been very bad for 3 years is a spoiled perspective of a fan base that expects to finish first in the division each year. you can win without doing that. you have a CHANCE to win the cup without finishing first (proven by examples above). Thus we had a CHANCE, sure our percentage has been going down, but the chance was there.