New IHL (Upper minors)?

[RowdyFan42]

I know Rum and have met him a few times in person. I didn't think he was advocating for the new league.

Yeah, I've met Rum before too. Good guy. If I came off like I was presuming to know what he personally was thinking, I apologize to Rum and everyone else; that's certainly not where I was going with that. It was really more of a generalization.

As an Albany fan, I can see you having all the reason in the world to complain. Lou does not give a flying F about minor league hockey.

Thanks. I thought I was merely souring on the Devils affiliation (and I consider myself a NJ Devils fan!), but this west coast thing is leaving me with mixed feelings on the AHL as a whole. I mean, it's always exciting to see new markets and I'm happy for the fans there, and to be fair, TPTB at least managed to get ECHL teams into 3 of the 5 cities they pulled out of (and Worcester really ought to get one as well), but still, the whole thing just doesn't sit right. I think it's the realization that the Devils' attitude toward the minors isn't all that unique. That's why I wouldn't be opposed to an independent league making a go of it.

 

[Frank Booth]

Wah, wah, wah. I'm so sick of reading whiny fans complain. Cleveland has had it worse than any other fan base recently, yet the Monsters' consistently finish in the top five in attendance, third this year. In the last 14 years there have been 2 playoff appearances, and one year completely dark from hockey. So in the last 13 seasons of AHL hockey, 11 non-playoff years. Can anyone else even come close? Wah, Hershey misses the playoffs once and let's kick Washington out. Well I've got news for you, there's no one left. NHL teams want one of these two things now, to either own the franchise, or to have total control over all hockey ops. Teams like Hershey and Chicago are dinosaurs in the current AHL. The league set it self up as a developmental league specifically to avoid the mess that became the IHL in the 90's. And I know, I was there to watch it burn to the ground. There will never be another "upper minors" as the "OP" suggests. Go to the ECHL, SPHL, or FHL. There they can be as independent as they want.

As far as Washington goes, I'll give you another little tidbit that very few people know, a few months back Ted Leonsis was in Cleveland to give the keynote address at the annual Quicken Loans company retreat. He spent some time visiting the Cavs/Monsters offices, and made a quick stop at the Monsters' practice facility just south of the airport. So I'm more than willing to bet the Caps would love to get out of Hershey and have a situation where they have full control of the hockey department.

 

[fedfed]

I don't see it with all the tax free money in Europe for aging North American players to earn.

I've told a tax officer a million times that the European money are supposed to be tax free, but he still wants me to pay something.

Any help?

 

[fedfed]

The closest you'd come I think if the current system was replaced and two leagues were introduced.

One would 18-25 year olds development league. Financial viability wouldn't be key there.

The other would be a pro league for players 25+ with a high degree of independency. Some players would still have NHL contracts, but the probability of re-calls would be minimal. Unlike the previous league (who could sacrifice profit for convenience, for example by having teams in the oversaturated markets with doubtful market prospects), this one would be all about profit.

Now the thing is, neither league would work in a 30-team setting. That's obvious. But two 15-team leagues with 2 NHL parent teams for each club... you might be on to something here.

This is somewhat similar to what the KHL has with junior affiliate MHL and minor pro affiliate VHL.

 

[jason2020]

The closest you'd come I think if the current system was replaced and two leagues were introduced.

One would 18-25 year olds development league. Financial viability wouldn't be key there.

The other would be a pro league for players 25+ with a high degree of independency. Some players would still have NHL contracts, but the probability of re-calls would be minimal. Unlike the previous league (who could sacrifice profit for convenience, for example by having teams in the oversaturated markets with doubtful market prospects), this one would be all about profit.

Now the thing is, neither league would work in a 30-team setting. That's obvious. But two 15-team leagues with 2 NHL parent teams for each club... you might be on to something here.

This is somewhat similar to what the KHL has with junior affiliate MHL and minor pro affiliate VHL.

Your not going to see them try and start up a new major jr league that would rival the Chl it would not work.

 

[fedfed]

Your not going to see them try and start up a new major jr league that would rival the Chl it would not work.

Vast majority would be 20-25 year olds. Would give undrafted kids a better chance I think. We'd also see less prospects in the ECHL.

So no, not competing with CHL. More like competing with NCAA/CIS.

 

[fedfed]

So I played around with that idea a little, here's what I got. Keep in mind that I tried to avoid pairing teams with their big rivals.

Let's call the juniors' league American and veterans' league International.

International league
Western division

• Milwaukee (CGY/WPG)
• Chicago (CHI/MIN)
• Grand Rapids (ARI/ANA)
• Toledo (CBJ/DET)
• Fort Wayne (COL/STL)

Atlantic division

• Orlando (FLA/TBL)
• Charlotte (CAR/WSH)
• Lake Erie (TOR/PIT)
• Hershey (PHI/NJD)
• Lehigh Valley (EDM/VAN)

Northern division

• St. John's (MTL/NYR)
• Providence (BOS/NYI)
• Manchester (LAK/SJS)
• Syracuse (NSH/DAL)
• Rochester (BUF/OTT)

American league
Western division

• Abbotsford (EDM/VAN)
• Stockton (LAK/SJS)
• Ontario (ARI/ANA)
• Colorado (COL/STL)
• Tulsa (NSH/DAL)

Central division

• Winnipeg (CGY/WPG)
• Iowa (CHI/MIN)
• Cincinnati (CBJ/DET)
• Toronto (TOR/PIT)
• Utica (BUF/OTT)

Eastern division

• Hartford (MTL/NYR)
• Bridgeport (BOS/NYI)
• Reading (PHI/NJD)
• Norfolk (CAR/WSH)
• Florida (FLA/TBL)

 

[Rumblick]

I guess my inclusion of "the hell with it' in the OP gave the impression some of the fans were unhappy with the system. It's more a sense of the people in the front office thinking the fans wouldn't adapt to a more development oriented system, just based on some folks I've talked to. Personally, I think the fans would show up no matter what, & I think there are very few teams that would allow an Albany-like product to fester as long as it has up there. Teams like Manchester are development based and they've done just fine.

There was talk earlier this year that the Caps brass had discussions with Portland people (and boy, did that prompt a s**tstorm down here ) because they too are looking to use fewer "lifers" and concentrate more on development. That was, to a large extent, what prompted this thread. Thanks again for the input.

BTW - didn't realize who "GarbageGoal" was. Nice seeing you here. You, too, Rowdy.

 

[Nightsquad]

The Smallbany, oops I meant Albany area lol could do much better. That area is not a total lost cause, it actually has sustained more dysmal hockey hardships then just about any other hockey market at the minor league level. The 1990s were great for Albany. They had "local" ownership and the Devils had significant depth those years. People really cannot forget though that Adirondack is essentially in the same market. When the old Adirondack Red Wings were in the 1980s golden years, it was fans from down in the Albany, Schenectady NY, and Troy NY areas that made the trip north.

This NHL development trend many other markets are bemoaning is nothing new for Albany fans. The trend of we will come in to your market and do away with your local identity built over the years, then place "our" handpicked people to run the team, ice teams which suit our NHL interests in the future, and reinforce the ideals of success in the NHL and not in our AHL market is a trend long ago established by the NJ DEvils back in the early 2000s. I have to give credit to Ft. Wayne ownership, and the fan base. They initiate and dictate their present state of affairs. They would much rather compete on a competetive level and see success then yield their values away to an uncertain future in world of development first minor league hockey. A valuable history lesson can also be learned from what happened to the Quad City Mallards. Once a powerhouse in the old Colonial & United Hockey Leagues once the AHL Flames came into town it started the downward trend and they really have yet to recover.

 

[Yog S'loth]

We have this league already. It's called the ECHL.

What talent level do you think a new minor league - that has no affiliate money and so can't afford to pay players any more than anyone else - will pull from?

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

We have this league already. It's called the ECHL.

What talent level do you think a new minor league - that has no affiliate money and so can't afford to pay players any more than anyone else - will pull from?

No we don't. We did until the mid 2000s. Curious as to why you think the ECHL is that. The ECHL getting into the affiliation game has killed the league.